OBiTALK Community

General Support => On-Topic: Obihai and OBi Products => Topic started by: Mouse on July 10, 2015, 04:26:34 AM

Title: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 10, 2015, 04:26:34 AM
Well after all the settings below it seems to be working fine so far, PSTN echo reasonable (but echo suppression a bit instrusive), all calls ringing through, inbound on SIP working as well as outbound. This is how I did it, with a lot of help from others eg Welsh Paul and Drgeoff.

This is how I set up my Obi202 + Obline in the UK to operate with locally applied settings - ie with settings applied via the devices own local web interface not via the Obitalk web site. The process does include registering with the Obitalk website, but not setting the device up using the interface on the Obitalk web site.

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0. Connect up the Obi and Obiline, including connecting a phone, as per the instructions enclosed with the devices and switched on. To connect the phone make sure you use an 'RJ11 (male) to BT phone (female) plug adapter' with a ring capacitor. To connect to the phone system use and RJ11 to RJ11 lead (probably that enclosed is OK)  with a RJ11 (female) to BT (male) adapter. Search on amazon for those phrases. Please note the terminology in the Obi may be confusing - the OBi sees its own LAN (defined by its own router) as *the* LAN, and your LAN as part of the internet - that why you connect your LAN to the internet socket.

1. If the device has previously been used, reset it to the default factory configuration. I believe this can be done by deleting any Obitalk registration for the device, by accessing settings for the device in Your account ~ Dashboard ~ delete device, then pushing the reset button using a biro in the hole on the bottom of the device, but I have not done it myself. I would suggest disconnecting then reconnecting the ObiLine device after doing this.

2. To enable the web configuration interface for the device. Type ***0 from the connected phone then enter 30# - Press 1 to enter a new value - Press 1# to enable - Press 1 to save. Dial ***1 and the IP address of the device is read to you.

3. To enter the web configuration interface open browser running on a machine attached to the same LAN type, and the IP into the browser bar eg: http://192.168.1.131. When asked enter the user name "admin" and the password "admin".

4. To give the router web access and allow registration on Obitalk, navigate to Obi202 ~ Router Config ~ LAN Settings ~ DNS server and enter any public DNS server IP you like. The string "4.2.2.2" works fine. Press submit and reboot if requested.

5. In your ADSL router, give the Obi Device a fixed IP, switch the ADSL router on and off and check that the OBI has been allocated that IP, using ***1 as above. In your ADSL router again create a rule to forward inbound connections on port 10,000 to the Obi device, and ensure there are no restrictions on outbound connections which would apply to that IP. If there are create rules to allow outbound from the device on TCP Ports: 6800, 5222, 5223 and UDP Ports: 5060, 5061, 10000 to 11000, 16600 to 16998, 19305.   Your router manual should help if you don't know how.

6. To connect the device to Obitalk.com and update it, navigate to www.Obitalk.com and set up an account and from the Dashboard within the account choose 'Add device'. I chose not to install Google voice settings. If you have done the above smoothly the process, for which you need no additional info, should 'just work'. If the device needs a firmware update this will be shown as an icon. Click on t and allow the process to proceed, checking the Obi is back online again (as shown on the dashboard) at the end of the process. Don't do this if a power outage is likely!

6a. Alternatively if you don't want to connect your device to Obitalk at all you can update the firmware by downloading it from: https://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0, the applying it using System Management ~ Device Update ~ Firmware update.

7. To prevent the settings you are about to make being over-written by autoprovisioning, go back into the Obi web interface, using the new IP in your browser, and navigate to System Management ~ Autoprovisioning ~ Obitalk Provisioning ~ Method and set this to disabled. Submit and reboot if requested.

8. To import UK settings, in your browser navigate to https://www.ukvoipforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=369, and download and unzip the most recent Obi202 setup file for the UK. If setting up for a different country, search the Obitalk forums for links to the most recent country specific setup file. The UK Obitalk file sets up the Obiline as well, but you must make sure it is attached before you load the file. Now in the device web interface go to to System Management ~ Device Update, choose to restore the XML file you just downloaded. The Obi device will reboot.

8a. Now set the following further UK setting, if it is not covered by the UK file. (It is supposed to be but did not seem to be on my Obi, but I may have made a mistake). To prevent delays in inbound ringing Set Physical Interfaces ~ Line Port ~ Ring Delay to 400.

9. Now you have finished the basic setup, and you can start setting up your phone services. By default incoming calls from the PSTN (normal phone network) are directed to both phone socket 1 (ph or ph1) and 2 (ph2) under Physical Interfaces ~ Line Port ~Inbound Call Route but you can change this if you wish. Line port is where all the Obiline settings are.

10. I set up my Zen internet VOIP service as follows, though others may vary, consult your VOIP provider for advice if following the guidance below does not work.
ITSP Profile A
   General: Changed Profile ~ Name to Zen; Service Provider Name to to Zebn
   SIP: Changed Proxy server; Registrar Server; Outbound Proxy to voip.zen.uk
   RTP: No changes
Voice Services ~ SP1 Service
   SP1 Service: Changed X_NoREgNoCall to enabled
   Credentials: Changed AuthUserName/Password to my username/password
   Caller ID name: changed to my name.
After setting each page you must press submit, but you may wait to the end of your settings to reboot.

10a. Please note that if you want to set up another Voice Service - eg SP2 - you'll probably want to use  a different ITSP profile (eg B), and you will need to link the Voice Service to the profile using X_ServProvProfile in the Voice Service.

11. To set the default voice service that a phone port (Phone 1 or Phone 2) uses, do the following. Under Physical Interfaces ~ Phone1 Port ~ Phone Port ~ Primary Line set the appropriate phone service. (I set SP1 service).

12. Now using the instructions from your VOIP provider, make the appropriate settings in your ADSL router. Depending on how or whether your SIP provider works round NAT (Network Address Translation) in your router, you may need to forward incoming as well as outbound connections on ports such as those listed in 5 above to the device. Your router manual should tell you how.

13. If you have got this far you have completed a basic UK setup for Obi202 and Obiline - congrats :) !

If you have any corrections/experiences with the above draft please say below and I will amend it.

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 10, 2015, 04:31:54 AM
Sorry wrong board could you move to setup please?
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 10, 2015, 06:53:12 AM
OK one issue encountered, a delay before the phone rings on inbound SIP.

I am trying setting Line Port  ~ Ring Delay to 0. This delay is for CLI, but I think this happens before the first ring in the UK?

I wonder can you reduce ring validation time as well? Anyone know?
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: drgeoff on July 10, 2015, 10:28:38 AM
Yes,  UK CLI is before first ring so the RingDelay can be reduced.

I don't have experience of using a 202 but if I were to use one I doubt that I would use its router mode.  Set it to bridge mode and it just becomes another device on the LAN side of the main router and it gives you back an ethernet port to replace the one it took away. The only downside I see is that you lose the 202's QoS control of traffic from devices on the 202's LAN side. However that needs to be balanced against the low throughput (about 30 Mbit/s) of the 202 as a router and that its QoS stuff is becoming increasingly irrelevant as broadband uplink speeds improve.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 10, 2015, 01:04:29 PM
Quote from: drgeoff on July 10, 2015, 10:28:38 AM
Yes,  UK CLI is before first ring so the RingDelay can be reduced.
Thanks yes 0 is OK for me here so far.

Quote from: drgeoff on July 10, 2015, 10:28:38 AM
I don't have experience of using a 202 but if I were to use one I doubt that I would use its router mode.  Set it to bridge mode and it just becomes another device on the LAN side of the main router and it gives you back an ethernet port to replace the one it took away. The only downside I see is that you lose the 202's QoS control of traffic from devices on the 202's LAN side. However that needs to be balanced against the low throughput (about 30 Mbit/s) of the 202 as a router and that its QoS stuff is becoming increasingly irrelevant as broadband uplink speeds improve.

Interesting. I did a similar thing on the SPA3102. I think its designed for people stateside so the can use it as a broadband router over PPOE. Won't work as a BB router with PPOA in the UK I think.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 10, 2015, 01:21:37 PM
OK added delay @ 8a above. Thanks very much. Will think about bridge mode.

Only one further problem so far - when I dial out there seems to be a small delay between someone answering and me beginning to hear what they are saying - so it sounds like the first few words of their first sentence is cut off.

Happens on both my SIP voice services.

In UK you can replicate this by using 08008008000 which autoanswers. It seems to happen worst when a number is dialed for the first time.......

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: WelshPaul on July 11, 2015, 01:56:08 AM
You would of been better off posting this in the UK forum located at the bottom of the board. As for any delay or lost audio which can be replicated by dialling the above said number there is none. (For me)

Is the audio issue happening on calls placed over both OBiLINE and SIP calls?

On another note... There is no need to register your device with the OBiTALK portal if you're configuring the device locally.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 13, 2015, 02:22:45 AM
Quote from: WelshPaul on July 11, 2015, 01:56:08 AM
You would of been better off posting this in the UK forum located at the bottom of the board. As for any delay or lost audio which can be replicated by dialling the above said number there is none. (For me)
I agree sorry it was a posting mistake. Could someone please move the topic?

Quote
Is the audio issue happening on calls placed over both OBiLINE and SIP calls?
I have not tested that I will check and get back to you. It could be an interaction between my DECT phone jack extender and the Obi 200 unit perhaps. It does not happen, or happens less with my old SPA 3102, and I seem to remember there was an SPA setting involved - I just cannot remember which.

Quote
On another note... There is no need to register your device with the OBiTALK portal if you're configuring the device locally.
Yes I understand that. I suggested registering to update the firmware because that is how I did it, and so what I know works. I should maybe edit the post to give direct update as an alternative.

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: WelshPaul on July 13, 2015, 03:22:16 AM
I would recommend connecting up a basic corded telephone to your Obi to rule out your DECT phone jack extender.


QuoteI seem to remember there was an SPA setting involved
Wasn't turning OFF Symmetric RTP (Line 1 tab / Audio Configuration) by any chance?

Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 18, 2015, 01:26:44 AM
Quote from: WelshPaul on July 13, 2015, 03:22:16 AM
I would recommend connecting up a basic corded telephone to your Obi to rule out your DECT phone jack extender.


QuoteI seem to remember there was an SPA setting involved
Wasn't turning OFF Symmetric RTP (Line 1 tab / Audio Configuration) by any chance?



Yes so I think without the phone Jack there is still a signal delay but it means the announcement comes in quicker than you would expect, without cutting off the first few words so that is acceptable but not ideal.

I'll try symmetric RTP. Is there any downside?
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 18, 2015, 01:31:39 AM
I have just added another UK setting, adding 17070 (the BT test number) to the list of outbound numbers (like 999) passed through to PSTN in the dialplan. I have added this in phone 1 and Phone 2 settings - is that right?

(It would seem to me there needs to be somewhere to put dialplan settings that apply to all outbound/inbound calls to avoid duplication. Is that what gateways are for?)

17070 does not work with my sip provider.....
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 18, 2015, 02:22:51 AM
Quote(It would seem to me there needs to be somewhere to put dialplan settings that apply to all outbound/inbound calls to avoid duplication. Is that what gateways are for?)

In OBi-speak a dial plan is a DigitMap. If you use the same DigitMap in several places, then it's useful to create a User Defined DigitMap. For example:

User Settings > User Defined Digit Maps > User Defined Digit Map2 >
Label: tel
DigitMap: (0[4568]xx.S3|0[123]xxxxxxxxx|07[1-9]xxxxxxxx|116xxx|xx.)

Replace existing DigitMaps with the new User Defined DigitMap:

Service Providers > ITSP Profile A > General > DigitMap:
(Mtel)

Service Providers > ITSP Profile B > General > DigitMap:
(Mtel)

Any change made to the User Defined DigitMap "tel" will automatically be made to all DigitMaps defined as (Mtel).


Voice Gateways are a different subject. They are used to provide access to VOIP service providers that do not require registration and are used for outgoing calls only. In the UK I use registered VOIP providers on various spXs, but I use a Voice Gateway for a voipcheap.co.uk service which I use for outgoing mobile calls as they only charge 3p per minute. In the UK DigitMaps can be arranged to automatically route any number beginning with "07" to any specific Voice Gateway.

Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 18, 2015, 05:18:25 AM
Quote from: ianobi on July 18, 2015, 02:22:51 AM
Quote(It would seem to me there needs to be somewhere to put dialplan settings that apply to all outbound/inbound calls to avoid duplication. Is that what gateways are for?)

In OBi-speak a dial plan is a DigitMap. If you use the same DigitMap in several places, then it's useful to create a User Defined DigitMap. For example:

User Settings > User Defined Digit Maps > User Defined Digit Map2 >
Label: tel
DigitMap: (0[4568]xx.S3|0[123]xxxxxxxxx|07[1-9]xxxxxxxx|116xxx|xx.)

Replace existing DigitMaps with the new User Defined DigitMap:

Service Providers > ITSP Profile A > General > DigitMap:
(Mtel)

Service Providers > ITSP Profile B > General > DigitMap:
(Mtel)

Any change made to the User Defined DigitMap "tel" will automatically be made to all DigitMaps defined as (Mtel).
Thanks that's quite neat.

Quote
Voice Gateways are a different subject. They are used to provide access to VOIP service providers that do not require registration and are used for outgoing calls only. In the UK I use registered VOIP providers on various spXs, but I use a Voice Gateway for a voipcheap.co.uk service which I use for outgoing mobile calls as they only charge 3p per minute. In the UK DigitMaps can be arranged to automatically route any number beginning with "07" to any specific Voice Gateway.
OK like the SPA 3102 in a way then

Thanks very much for your feedback

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 18, 2015, 05:46:12 AM
Hmm I said above that the inbound PSTN echo problem is solved with the UK settings but maybe not quite.

1. A loud sound with a sharp rise time still attracts an echo, though it is truncated and diminished by the canceller.
2. The echo canceller still seems to have the SPA3102 problem of giving a half duplex flavor to conversations. When you start talking the voice of the person at the other end gets a bit suppressed.

1. is at an acceptable level I think but my wife reports that 2 is problematic as it leads to missing things that people are saying, and people talking over each other without realizing. Both effects I think are better than on the SPA.

Any ideas (if symmetric RTP reduces signal delay then maybe it will help with echo and hence suppression symptoms?)

On the SPA the best approach to reducing the echo tail was to reduce the RTP packet size or Jitter buffer size as this reduced processing lag through the device. You could then sometimes switch off the canceller. I guess packet size is G711a/u packetisation period on the 202, but I dunno if this applies to the Line input. Can you switch off the canceller and adjust the jitter buffer - I cannot find the settings......?

Maybe preferring 711u would help as the device is probably optimized for it?

On PSTN does inbound work like the SPA? Processing the analogue signal into a digital one, then back to analogue. This was the source of delay on the SPA.

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 18, 2015, 01:36:34 PM
I just changed CLI trigger on phone 1 and phone 2 to 'before first ring', which I think is correct for the UK. Also changed in the setup guide in the first post.

This solved a problem with incoming calls constantly being detected as unanswered and thus added to unanswered call logs for me.

Did not seem to be in UK settings file?
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 01:43:04 AM
Now trying packetsize of 10 ms and Line 1 TX gain = 0 -> -3 with compensatory DTMF gain -5 -> -2 to reduce echo and thus associated suppression activity.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 02:01:47 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 01:43:04 AM
Now trying packetsize of 10 ms and Line 1 TX gain = 0 -> -3 with compensatory DTMF gain -5 -> -2 to reduce echo and thus associated suppression activity.

Does not work. Its apparently not passing on DTMF even if I reduce TX gain only to -1, even with the compensation.

I am not sure DTMF playback level setting is working. Or maybe it works different from the SPA 3102.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: drgeoff on July 19, 2015, 03:49:43 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 02:01:47 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 01:43:04 AM
Now trying packetsize of 10 ms and Line 1 TX gain = 0 -> -3 with compensatory DTMF gain -5 -> -2 to reduce echo and thus associated suppression activity.

Does not work. Its apparently not passing on DTMF even if I reduce TX gain only to -1, even with the compensation.

I am not sure DTMF playback level setting is working. Or maybe it works different from the SPA 3102.
My understanding of DTMF playback level is as follows but may be incorrect.

When DTMF tones are sent to your OBi out of band (ie in a side digital message,  not tones in the coded speech path) your OBi reconstructs analogue DTMF tones to come out on the phone port. That parameter sets the level of those tones.

If the above is correct it will have no relevance to DTMF tones sent to a callee.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: WelshPaul on July 19, 2015, 05:50:02 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 18, 2015, 01:36:34 PM
I just changed CLI trigger on phone 1 and phone 2 to 'before first ring', which I think is correct for the UK. Also changed in the setup guide in the first post.

This solved a problem with incoming calls constantly being detected as unanswered and thus added to unanswered call logs for me.

Did not seem to be in UK settings file?
This has been discussed many times.  ;)

The reason why it isn't included in the UK configuration files anywhere is down to the fact Obihai never offered the 'before first ring' option. This must have been added in a recent firmware revision and as Obihai do not publish any change logs there is no way for me to know that it is now supported. (until either I stumble upon it or another user points it out)

https://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=8935.0
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 07:18:09 AM
Quote from: WelshPaul on July 19, 2015, 05:50:02 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 18, 2015, 01:36:34 PM
I just changed CLI trigger on phone 1 and phone 2 to 'before first ring', which I think is correct for the UK. Also changed in the setup guide in the first post.

This solved a problem with incoming calls constantly being detected as unanswered and thus added to unanswered call logs for me.

Did not seem to be in UK settings file?
This has been discussed many times.  ;)

The reason why it isn't included in the UK configuration files anywhere is down to the fact Obihai never offered the 'before first ring' option. This must have been added in a recent firmware revision and as Obihai do not publish any change logs there is no way for me to know that it is now supported. (until either I stumble upon it or another user points it out)

https://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=8935.0

OK glad to have served that purpose :)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 07:19:58 AM
Quote from: drgeoff on July 19, 2015, 03:49:43 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 02:01:47 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 01:43:04 AM
Now trying packetsize of 10 ms and Line 1 TX gain = 0 -> -3 with compensatory DTMF gain -5 -> -2 to reduce echo and thus associated suppression activity.

Does not work. Its apparently not passing on DTMF even if I reduce TX gain only to -1, even with the compensation.

I am not sure DTMF playback level setting is working. Or maybe it works different from the SPA 3102.
My understanding of DTMF playback level is as follows but may be incorrect.

When DTMF tones are sent to your OBi out of band (ie in a side digital message,  not tones in the coded speech path) your OBi reconstructs analogue DTMF tones to come out on the phone port. That parameter sets the level of those tones.

If the above is correct it will have no relevance to DTMF tones sent to a callee.

That does make sense of the observed behavior. Thanks for the feedback

Still strange that any adjustment in volume disables in band DTMF, reduces the value of the facility?
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: WelshPaul on July 19, 2015, 07:21:24 AM
Quote from: Mouse
OK glad to have served that purpose :)

I also noticed that Obihai have changed the OnHookSpeed value from '3ms (ETSI)' to '3 ms (ETSI)' at some point. As a result if you uploaded any of the UK XML configuration files (v2.4 or lower) then this parameter will not have been altered from the devices default value.

I have updated the UK XML files... I have added the 'before first ring' value for the CallerIDTrigger parameter and updated the OnHookSpeed to reflect the new value of '3 ms (ETSI)'. I have also compared the XML output format against the very latest firmware release available at this time and all appears good again. :)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 07:30:58 AM
Quote from: WelshPaul on July 19, 2015, 07:21:24 AM
Quote from: Mouse
OK glad to have served that purpose :)

I also noticed that Obihai have changed the OnHookSpeed value from '3ms (ETSI)' to '3 ms (ETSI)' at some point. As a result if you uploaded any of the UK XML configuration files (v2.4 or lower) then this parameter will not have been altered from the devices default value.

I have updated the UK XML files... I have added the 'before first ring' value for the CallerIDTrigger parameter and updated the OnHookSpeed to reflect the new value of '3 ms (ETSI)'. I have also compared the XML output format against the very latest firmware release available at this time and all appears good again. :)

That's great - I will change my guide above in the same way. Could someone move this post to Setup or UK Regional Board please

I also wondered if this setting should be changed - but I don't know what exactly it should be:

"To prevent delays in inbound ringing Set Physical Interfaces ~ Line Port ~ Ring Delay to 0. (If this causes problem with CLI you may need to increase this a bit say to 100 or 200)."

I worked with 0 for " Ring indication delay" on the SPA for years, so that may be right.

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 07:33:42 AM
Thanks re 3ms ETSI. Now changed.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 08:03:39 AM
Quote from: WelshPaul on July 11, 2015, 01:56:08 AM
You would of been better off posting this in the UK forum located at the bottom of the board. As for any delay or lost audio which can be replicated by dialling the above said number there is none. (For me)

Is the audio issue happening on calls placed over both OBiLINE and SIP calls?

On another note... There is no need to register your device with the OBiTALK portal if you're configuring the device locally.

Added ***6 method as an alternative to Obitalk firmware update.

Thanks for suggestion.... :)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: WelshPaul on July 19, 2015, 08:20:22 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 08:03:39 AM
Quote from: WelshPaul on July 11, 2015, 01:56:08 AM
You would of been better off posting this in the UK forum located at the bottom of the board. As for any delay or lost audio which can be replicated by dialling the above said number there is none. (For me)

Is the audio issue happening on calls placed over both OBiLINE and SIP calls?

On another note... There is no need to register your device with the OBiTALK portal if you're configuring the device locally.

Added ***6 method as an alternative to Obitalk firmware update.

Thanks for suggestion.... :)

The ***6 method is unreliable at best! I also believe that once your 12 months warranty is up then Obihai will charge you an annual fee of $10. Should you decide not to pay? you will be unable to update your devices firmware via the portal.

You can also get the latest firmware from here: https://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0

Simply upload the file to your device manually. :)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 08:35:31 AM
Quote from: WelshPaul on July 19, 2015, 08:20:22 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 19, 2015, 08:03:39 AM
Quote from: WelshPaul on July 11, 2015, 01:56:08 AM
You would of been better off posting this in the UK forum located at the bottom of the board. As for any delay or lost audio which can be replicated by dialling the above said number there is none. (For me)

Is the audio issue happening on calls placed over both OBiLINE and SIP calls?

On another note... There is no need to register your device with the OBiTALK portal if you're configuring the device locally.

Added ***6 method as an alternative to Obitalk firmware update.

Thanks for suggestion.... :)

The ***6 method is unreliable at best! I also believe that once your 12 months warranty is up then Obihai will charge you an annual fee of $10. Should you decide not to pay? you will be unable to update your devices firmware via the portal.

You can also get the latest firmware from here: https://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0

Simply upload the file to your device manually. :)

Corrected as suggested :)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 04:21:18 AM
Just had a problem with an incoming call. It was from a standard format UK number (0207) that you cannot phone (its outgoing call only)

The number was passed through the Obi, and a ring request issued, but there was no ring, and the Obi seemed to hang up straight away:
11:39:10   From LI1()   Fork to:
PH1
PH2
11:39:10      Ringing (PH1)
11:39:10      Ringing (PH2)
11:39:10   Call Ended   

The same number tried again and this time the OBi rang the phones OK

Just wondered if there was a bug in the new 3 ms setting?

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 04:42:33 AM
Hmm on the SPA, PSTN Disconnect I had:

Detect PSTN Long Silence: no

Disconnect Tone - 400@-30,400@-30; 2(*/0/1+2)

And this page is similar: http://www.aoakley.com/articles/2008-01-08.php

With:

Detect PSTN Long Silence: no

Disconnect Tone - 400@-30,400@-30; 2(3/0/1+2)

I seem to remember that the simpler disconnect tone you have, though it accord with a UK standard, was found not to be what is actually used in the UK

But this may be memory failure.... :) Maybe it's a format difference.

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 06:02:10 AM
Ring control

Also from:  http://www.aoakley.com/articles/2008-01-08.php

Ring Validation Time: 256ms
Ring Indication Delay: 512ms
Ring Timeout: 640ms

On the SPA I had ring indication delay = 0 like you, and ring timeout of 128ms like you, but validation time of 256ms like aoakley

I am not sure how ring indication delay and ring delay (latter present only on the Obi) relate.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 06:12:49 AM
Caller id

Caller id method and detect method, you have FSK

I and http://www.aoakley.com/articles/2008-01-08.php have one setting on the SPA:

Caller id method = ETSI FSK with PR(UK)

BUT Obi does not seem to have that option
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 06:17:36 AM
Tones

There are detailed differences, between your Obi settings and mine and aoakley's but I guess these don't have functional impact.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: WelshPaul on July 20, 2015, 07:27:18 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 04:21:18 AM
Just had a problem with an incoming call. It was from a standard format UK number (0207) that you cannot phone (its outgoing call only)

The number was passed through the Obi, and a ring request issued, but there was no ring, and the Obi seemed to hang up straight away:
11:39:10   From LI1()   Fork to:
PH1
PH2
11:39:10      Ringing (PH1)
11:39:10      Ringing (PH2)
11:39:10   Call Ended   

The same number tried again and this time the OBi rang the phones OK

Just wondered if there was a bug in the new 3 ms setting?

Kind regards

Mike

Always the possibility that there is an issue with the setting, after all they have modified it.  ???

Quote from: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 04:42:33 AM
Hmm on the SPA, PSTN Disconnect I had:

Detect PSTN Long Silence: no

Disconnect Tone - 400@-30,400@-30; 2(*/0/1+2)

And this page is similar: http://www.aoakley.com/articles/2008-01-08.php

With:

Detect PSTN Long Silence: no

Disconnect Tone - 400@-30,400@-30; 2(3/0/1+2)

I seem to remember that the simpler disconnect tone you have, though it accord with a UK standard, was found not to be what is actually used in the UK

But this may be memory failure.... :) Maybe it's a format difference.

Kind regards

Mike

This was all tested and discussed a long time ago between myself and Obihai.

If my memory serves me correct, Obihai devices didn't support some of the characters that were used in Linksys/Cisco syntax. Such as '*', of course this may have changed as new firmware has been released since then... I said may  ;D

However, with no change logs there is no way to know.  :-\

Quote from: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 06:02:10 AM
Ring control

Also from:  http://www.aoakley.com/articles/2008-01-08.php

Ring Validation Time: 256ms
Ring Indication Delay: 512ms
Ring Timeout: 640ms

On the SPA I had ring indication delay = 0 like you, and ring timeout of 128ms like you, but validation time of 256ms like aoakley

I am not sure how ring indication delay and ring delay (latter present only on the Obi) relate.

EDIT: I misread this sorry...

"On the SPA I had ring indication delay = 0 like you, and ring timeout of 128ms like you, but validation time of 256ms like aoakley"

What you say is indeed correct, those are the values used on the OBi?

I have not read this thread myself, might be of some help: https://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=102.0

Quote from: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 06:12:49 AM
Caller id

Caller id method and detect method, you have FSK

I and http://www.aoakley.com/articles/2008-01-08.php have one setting on the SPA:

Caller id method = ETSI FSK with PR(UK)

BUT Obi does not seem to have that option.

Again already discussed, OBihai stated that FSK(V.23) works the same way.

"British Telecom FSK
British Telecom (BT) in the United Kingdom developed their own standard, which wakes up the display with a line reversal, then sends the data as CCITT v.23 modem tones in a format similar to MDMF. It is used by BT, wireless networks like the late Ionica, and some cable companies. Details are to be found in BT Supplier Information Notes (SINs) 227 and 242; another useful document is Designing Caller Identification Delivery Using XR-2211 for BT from the EXAR website."

Quote from: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 06:17:36 AM
Tones

There are detailed differences, between your Obi settings and mine and aoakley's but I guess these don't have functional impact.

What you have to remember is that not all devices take the same syntax strings, offer the same settings or name their parameters the same. If all manufacturers used the same dialplan, tones and ringtone syntax I wouldn't have grey hairs! ;)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 08:02:26 AM
Quote from: WelshPaul on July 20, 2015, 07:27:18 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 04:21:18 AM
Just had a problem with an incoming call. It was from a standard format UK number (0207) that you cannot phone (its outgoing call only)

The number was passed through the Obi, and a ring request issued, but there was no ring, and the Obi seemed to hang up straight away:
11:39:10   From LI1()   Fork to:
PH1
PH2
11:39:10      Ringing (PH1)
11:39:10      Ringing (PH2)
11:39:10   Call Ended   

The same number tried again and this time the OBi rang the phones OK

Just wondered if there was a bug in the new 3 ms setting?

Kind regards

Mike

Always the possibility that there is an issue with the setting, after all they have modified it.  ???

Quote from: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 04:42:33 AM
Hmm on the SPA, PSTN Disconnect I had:

Detect PSTN Long Silence: no

Disconnect Tone - 400@-30,400@-30; 2(*/0/1+2)

And this page is similar: http://www.aoakley.com/articles/2008-01-08.php

With:

Detect PSTN Long Silence: no

Disconnect Tone - 400@-30,400@-30; 2(3/0/1+2)

I seem to remember that the simpler disconnect tone you have, though it accord with a UK standard, was found not to be what is actually used in the UK

But this may be memory failure.... :) Maybe it's a format difference.

Kind regards

Mike

This was all tested and discussed a long time ago between myself and Obihai. If my memory serves me correct, Obihai devices didn't support some of the characters that were used in Linksys/Cisco stuff. Such as '*', of course this may have changed as new firmware has been released since then... I said may  ;D

However, with no change logs there is no way to know.

Quote from: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 06:02:10 AM
Ring control

Also from:  http://www.aoakley.com/articles/2008-01-08.php

Ring Validation Time: 256ms
Ring Indication Delay: 512ms
Ring Timeout: 640ms

On the SPA I had ring indication delay = 0 like you, and ring timeout of 128ms like you, but validation time of 256ms like aoakley

I am not sure how ring indication delay and ring delay (latter present only on the Obi) relate.

The correct UK value is zero, back in 2006 I worked with somebody high up at BT and we came up with the correct UK values for use with Voipfone Linksys hardware.

Quote from: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 06:12:49 AM
Caller id

Caller id method and detect method, you have FSK

I and http://www.aoakley.com/articles/2008-01-08.php have one setting on the SPA:

Caller id method = ETSI FSK with PR(UK)

BUT Obi does not seem to have that option

Again already discussed, OBIHAI have never added the option.

Quote from: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 06:17:36 AM
Tones

There are detailed differences, between your Obi settings and mine and aoakley's but I guess these don't have functional impact.

What you have to remember is that not all devices take the same syntax strings, if all manufacturers used the same dialplan, tones and ringtone syntax I wouldn't have grey hairs! ;)

Thanks for our answers. Sorry where I am going over old ground, just double checking due to the missed call.

A quick look at the 2013 admin manual suggests that * is still not supported, and the other characters you need for: 400@-30,400@-30; 2(3/0/1+2) are supported except the '@-' becomes '-' but in field 3 -6 not 2. Field 2 takes the overall duration.

So 400-30,400-30; 2; 2(3/0/1+2) seems syntactically possible but may mean nothing or something different from on the SPA!

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: WelshPaul on July 20, 2015, 08:04:39 AM
I just edited my post from my computer with some updated points, I originally posted from my mobile phone.  ;D
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: WelshPaul on July 20, 2015, 08:18:48 AM
Quote from: Mouse
Thanks for our answers. Sorry where I am going over old ground, just double checking due to the missed call.

No need to apologise, I'm trying to remember what it was that we discussed at the time.  :)

Quote from: MouseA quick look at the 2013 admin manual suggests that * is still not supported, and the other characters you need for: 400@-30,400@-30; 2(3/0/1+2) are supported except the '@-' becomes '-' but in field 3 -6 not 2. Field 2 takes the overall duration.

So 400-30,400-30; 2; 2(3/0/1+2) seems syntactically possible but may mean nothing or something different from on the SPA!

I remember pointing out the same, for a reason that I no longer recall Mark recommended we used 400-30;2 instead. Give 400-30,400-30; 2; 2(3/0/1+2) a try. :)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 09:04:18 AM
Quote from: WelshPaul on July 20, 2015, 08:18:48 AM
Quote from: Mouse
Thanks for our answers. Sorry where I am going over old ground, just double checking due to the missed call.

No need to apologise, I'm trying to remember what it was that we discussed at the time.  :)

Quote from: MouseA quick look at the 2013 admin manual suggests that * is still not supported, and the other characters you need for: 400@-30,400@-30; 2(3/0/1+2) are supported except the '@-' becomes '-' but in field 3 -6 not 2. Field 2 takes the overall duration.

So 400-30,400-30; 2; 2(3/0/1+2) seems syntactically possible but may mean nothing or something different from on the SPA!

I remember pointing out the same, for a reason that I no longer recall Mark recommended we used 400-30;2 instead. Give 400-30,400-30; 2; 2(3/0/1+2) a try. :)

OK yes I will give it a go. Thanks very much.

(BTW I guess FSK with PR means with Polarity Reversal?)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: WelshPaul on July 20, 2015, 09:55:20 AM
Quote from: Mouse
(BTW I guess FSK with PR means with Polarity Reversal?)

Although I have not read any official documentation that states it does, this is what I have always understood it to mean.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 10:02:59 AM
Thanks. Do you have any idea what the correct 'Ring delay' as opposed to 'ring indication delay' should be?

The distinction I cannot see :)

I think it gets left at 4000 ATM, I have been using 0, as UK CID detects before first ring, but maybe that is risky?

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: WelshPaul on July 20, 2015, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 20, 2015, 10:02:59 AM
Thanks. Do you have any idea what the correct 'Ring delay' as opposed to 'ring indication delay' should be?

The distinction I cannot see :)

I think it gets left at 4000 ATM, I have been using 0, as UK CID detects before first ring, but maybe that is risky?

Kind regards

Mike

The correct value for ring delay is 400, this should have been set by the UK XML file. It's in there somewhere! :D
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 21, 2015, 03:59:36 AM
Thanks I have set 400 Ring Delay and disconnect tone of 400@-30,400@-30; 2(3/0/1+2)

Working OK so far, will report back later.

I have also found on my long line that a line impedance of 320 + 1050||230 seem to help the echo.

Just to note that in general when experimenting with different impedances, you may have to increase the TX or RX gain, or DTMF may not be recognised. I think some impedances have a higher power loss rate at DTF frequencies than others.

(There seems to be little margin in the TX gain of 0db!)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 21, 2015, 07:16:44 AM
Comparing echo on 110 and 202 I happened to notice that the latest 110 file did not set phone port ringer parameters. It did set ring delay though.

Could be there's a problem with the restore function......

110 is significantly better than 202 re echo BTW on my line.

202 still working OK with new disconnect settings .....
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 21, 2015, 07:19:27 AM
Applied disconnect tone settings to 110: 400@-30,400@-30; 2(3/0/1+2)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 21, 2015, 07:27:48 AM
Now have both 110 and 202 working simultaneously  ;D

Both have outboud SIP and PSTN

Both receiving PSTN calls, though probably only one receiving SIP calls (firewall port forward rule)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 21, 2015, 08:52:47 AM
I am just wondering whether the best way to solve the PSTN echo is to use the 220+110 and send back the obiline.

I'm guessing I can fork our main phone system to both Obis.

Then on the 110 I could set the line socket to send through to PH as usual. Phone socket could default to a SIP service, as I am happy to use SIP outbound always.

On the 202, there would be no line connection, it could use any SIP outbound and receive inbound SIP.

More elegantly I could use the 202 as the front end for all outbounds, referring using Obitalk requests for outbound PSTN connections to a 110 running in the 202s network. Inbound SIP could then go to either depending on the SIP service (using server IP-based PF rules). Inbound PSTN would go to the 110. (Port forward rules would be fun  ;D)

What do you think?
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 21, 2015, 09:21:09 AM
The OBi110 and the OBi202 can work as one combined device with each having access to the others' services. I would not put the OBi110 in the OBi202's network. So long as both devices are in the same router's subnet and both have static subnet ip addresses.

This gives you six spX services and a Line Port. You need to give each spX a unique UserAgentPort and it helps to use unique RTP ports for each service. With this setup calls can be routed to and from any spX or Line Port. All of the routing is done internally within the router subnet.

There are several different ways of routing the calls between the two OBi devices, but I like to dedicate a whole spX on each device to be the two ends of a link between them. However, if there is not a spare spX on each device, then Voice Gateways can be used. The former method makes passing CName and CallerID easy and makes DigitMaps a little more simple.

Comments on the forum would suggest that the OBi110 is a much better link to PSTN than the OBiLINE. I have two OBi110s and have never experienced any echo. I have not tried an OBiLINE, so I'm just judging by the comments of others regarding that.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 21, 2015, 09:42:03 AM
Quote from: ianobi on July 21, 2015, 09:21:09 AM
The OBi110 and the OBi202 can work as one combined device with each having access to the others' services. I would not put the OBi110 in the OBi202's network. So long as both devices are in the same router's subnet and both have static subnet ip addresses.

This gives you six spX services and a Line Port. You need to give each spX a unique UserAgentPort and it helps to use unique RTP ports for each service. With this setup calls can be routed to and from any spX or Line Port. All of the routing is done internally within the router subnet.

There are several different ways of routing the calls between the two OBi devices, but I like to dedicate a whole spX on each device to be the two ends of a link between them. However, if there is not a spare spX on each device, then Voice Gateways can be used. The former method makes passing CName and CallerID easy and makes DigitMaps a little more simple.

Comments on the forum would suggest that the OBi110 is a much better link to PSTN than the OBiLINE. I have two OBi110s and have never experienced any echo. I have not tried an OBiLINE, so I'm just judging by the comments of others regarding that.

Thanks that's very interesting. I have not dug deep enough to know what a user agent port is, and how it could be used, could you maybe explain? (Is it maybe a SIP signalling port?)

Do they dial each other using the Obi number?
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 21, 2015, 10:08:57 AM
QuoteThanks that's very interesting. I have not dug deep enough to know what a user agent port is, and how it could be used, could you maybe explain? (Is it maybe a SIP signalling port?)

Yes, it is the SIP signalling port. OBi terminology is a bit quirky!


QuoteDo they dial each other using the Obi number?

This is a big question! No, all routing is internal within your router subnet. The DigitMaps would need working out, but you might do something like this:

**1 SP1 OBi202
**2 SP2 OBi202
**3 SP3 OBi202
**4 SP4 OBi202
**6 SP1 OBi110
**7 SP2 OBI110
**8 Line Port OBi110

I've not bothered with OBiTALK for now and you might lose two of the above spXs if they form the link between the two devices.

You have three Phone Ports and with the right DigitMaps say you dial **201234567891 from any of the three Phone Ports, then the number 01234567891 would be routed out of the SIP service on SP2 of the OBi202.

For routing incoming calls it's useful for each phone port to have a number say:
Phone Port 1 OBi202 - 601
Phone Port 2 OBi202 - 602
Phone Port 1 OBi110 - 603

Incoming calls from any service can then be forwarded to any Phone Port(s) which will be identified by its 6xx number. The number will be automatically added by the OBi devices for call routing purposes, the caller just dials in as normal. If needed any of the three ports can call the other ports using it's 6xx number - useful for call transfers etc.

It would be a "project", but similar setups have been done before. I have something similar here using an OBi110 and an OBi1032.


Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 21, 2015, 10:45:37 AM
Thanks very much, not sure I am quite understanding. Sorry to be dumb.

How would I specify and where would I put the rule:

"Inbound on Line 1 port of Obi 110 goes out to telephone attached to Ph2 port of Obi 202"

(That would be the most important rule for me .....)

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 21, 2015, 11:34:08 AM
If the direct link between the two devices had been set up using sp2 in the OBi110 and sp4 in the OBi202, then it could be as simple as this:

OBi110 Physical Interfaces > LINE Port > InboundCallRoute:
{ph,sp2(602)}

All calls coming into the Line Port of OBi110 ring the attached phone of the OBi110 and send digits "602" out via sp2 (anything sent to OBi110 sp2 arrives at OBi202 sp4 via the link). Remove "ph" if it is not required to ring the OBi110 phone.

OBi202 Voice Services > SP4 Service > X_InboundCallRoute:
{>602:ph2}

All calls inbound on sp4 with digits "602" ring Phone Port 2.

The above example is simplified and omits some security measures and other rules to route calls from other inputs to ph2, but I hope that you get the idea.

The link between OBi110 sp2 and OBi202 sp4 would direct all calls between the two using each others' fixed local ip address / SIP port. Too much detail for this example.


An incoming call to any OBi device can be directed to any ip address / port. For instance if I only have an OBi110 and want to direct incoming calls at the line port to a SIP softphone on a PC with address 192.168.10.45:5060, then this would be the rule:

OBi110 Physical Interfaces > LINE Port > InboundCallRoute:
{ph,sp2(1@192.168.10.45:5060)}

This would ring the OBi110 phone and "fork" the call using OBi110 sp2 to the softphone. Whichever answers first takes the call. The "1" in sp2(1@192.168.10.45:5060) can be anything, the softphone does not use it, but it's needed to comply with the required format.


Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 21, 2015, 12:56:47 PM
OK I got it - roughly. I did not know you could just fire SIP at an IP and a service.

For simplicity I have put

*Obi 110*
Inbound call route PH,VG8
VG8 ~ Number: ph1(192.168.1.23:5068)
All other VG8 fields blank

*Obi202*
Nothing!

The VG does not seem to need the '1@' according to the manual. I'll try this tomorrow
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 22, 2015, 01:31:43 AM
A VG uses the SIP functions of an spX to work, so in this case it is redundant - much easier simply to use the spX. The spX simply has to be enabled and configured for SIP, which is the default situation. The same spX can be used for other services as well, so it is not dedicated to this one use. I suggest:

OBi110 Physical Interfaces > LINE Port > InboundCallRoute:
{ph,sp2(192.168.1.23:5068)}

Where 192.168.1.23:5068 is the ip address and UserAgentPort of one of the spX services of the OBi202. Its InboundCallRoute needs to be able to accept the call - the default "ph1,ph2" will do fine.


Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 22, 2015, 01:45:01 AM
I may have overlooked the obvious here! In the above example the spX has to be "in use". If OBi110 sp2 is spare, then set it up as a "fake" provider:

Service Providers -> ITSP Profile B -> SIP -> ProxyServer : 127.0.0.1
Service Providers -> ITSP Profile B -> SIP -> X_SpoofCallerID : checked

Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> Enable : (checked)
Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> AuthUserName : (any letters or numbers but not blank)
Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> X_RegisterEnable : (unchecked)
Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> X_ServProvProfile : B
Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> CallerIDName : Whatever
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 22, 2015, 06:06:52 AM
Quote from: ianobi on July 22, 2015, 01:31:43 AM
A VG uses the SIP functions of an spX to work, so in this case it is redundant - much easier simply to use the spX. The spX simply has to be enabled and configured for SIP, which is the default situation. The same spX can be used for other services as well, so it is not dedicated to this one use. I suggest:

OBi110 Physical Interfaces > LINE Port > InboundCallRoute:
{ph,sp2(192.168.1.23:5068)}

Where 192.168.1.23:5068 is the ip address and UserAgentPort of one of the spX services of the OBi202. Its InboundCallRoute needs to be able to accept the call - the default "ph1,ph2" will do fine.




That makes sense to me, thanks very much for all your help. I will try that this evening.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 22, 2015, 06:12:05 AM
Quote from: ianobi on July 22, 2015, 01:45:01 AM
I may have overlooked the obvious here! In the above example the spX has to be "in use". If OBi110 sp2 is spare, then set it up as a "fake" provider:

Service Providers -> ITSP Profile B -> SIP -> ProxyServer : 127.0.0.1
Service Providers -> ITSP Profile B -> SIP -> X_SpoofCallerID : checked

Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> Enable : (checked)
Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> AuthUserName : (any letters or numbers but not blank)
Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> X_RegisterEnable : (unchecked)
Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> X_ServProvProfile : B
Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> CallerIDName : Whatever


If I have understood correctly to implement my example you mean SPx of the Obi 202.

So I need to set up a fake service on the OBI 202 to listen on port 5068 for incoming from the Obi 110. I suppose from what you say it could be an existing service if I had one listening on 5068 but I do not - but that would risk tying up the service when it was needed for other things.

Thanks very much again. I would have had trouble working out how to set up a fake service.

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 22, 2015, 06:41:10 AM
For this to work:

OBi110 Physical Interfaces > LINE Port > InboundCallRoute:
{ph,sp2(192.168.1.23:5068)}

You are using sp2 in the OBi110 to send the call to the address/port within the parentheses. So if OBi110 sp2 is not already in use with a voip service provider, then it needs to be set up as a "fake" service provider as detailed above.

In the OBi202 the default UserAgentPorts are sp1 5060; sp2 5061; sp3 5062; sp4 5063. Assuming that the OBi202 ip address is 192.168.1.23, then you can "aim" the call at any one of them assuming that the InboundCallRoute is at default "ph,ph2" and the service is enabled:
Voice Services -> SPx Service -> Enable : (checked)
Both phone ports will ring. This does not stop the spX service in the OBi202 being used for other
things.

So if you are aiming at say OBi202 sp3, then in the OBi110 the rule would be:
OBi110 Physical Interfaces > LINE Port > InboundCallRoute:
{ph,sp2(192.168.1.23:5062)}

This means it's really easy to aim SIP calls at any OBi spX. This can be a bad thing! After you get the above example working I'll pass on some advice regarding security to stop the dreaded sip scanners calling you every five minutes in the middle of the night. However, let's keep it simple for now.

Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 22, 2015, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: ianobi on July 22, 2015, 06:41:10 AM
For this to work:

OBi110 Physical Interfaces > LINE Port > InboundCallRoute:
{ph,sp2(192.168.1.23:5068)}

You are using sp2 in the OBi110 to send the call to the address/port within the parentheses. So if OBi110 sp2 is not already in use with a voip service provider, then it needs to be set up as a "fake" service provider as detailed above.

In the OBi202 the default UserAgentPorts are sp1 5060; sp2 5061; sp3 5062; sp4 5063. Assuming that the OBi202 ip address is 192.168.1.23, then you can "aim" the call at any one of them assuming that the InboundCallRoute is at default "ph,ph2" and the service is enabled:
Voice Services -> SPx Service -> Enable : (checked)
Both phone ports will ring. This does not stop the spX service in the OBi202 being used for other
things.

So if you are aiming at say OBi202 sp3, then in the OBi110 the rule would be:
OBi110 Physical Interfaces > LINE Port > InboundCallRoute:
{ph,sp2(192.168.1.23:5062)}

This means it's really easy to aim SIP calls at any OBi spX. This can be a bad thing! After you get the above example working I'll pass on some advice regarding security to stop the dreaded sip scanners calling you every five minutes in the middle of the night. However, let's keep it simple for now

Thanks very much I had misunderstood the 'sp2'. I thought it referred to the service on the remote machine. The admin manual sections on VGs, which have a somewhat similar syntax, seem to me very misleading in this respect.

I think I can have a go at this now. Probably tomorrow if my wife is out - ringing of the phones during testing drives her mad!

(I'd intend to deal with the scanners by ensuring the router port forward rules refer to the source server IP - will that suffice?)

Kind regards

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: drgeoff on July 22, 2015, 02:31:49 PM
Quote from: Mouse on July 22, 2015, 02:15:07 PM(I'd intend to deal with the scanners by ensuring the router port forward rules refer to the source server IP - will that suffice?)
A typical home router doesn't have that functionality.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 23, 2015, 02:16:12 AM
Firstly, get the simple rule detailed above working!

Next, we need to go into OBiNerd mode regarding security and InboundCallRoutes.

A slightly simplified InboundCallRoute rule looks like this:

caller > callee: terminal

In the rule detailed in our previous posts we are only using "terminal" i.e. "ph,ph2" meaning that any call that makes it to the correct ip address/port will ring Phone Ports 1 and 2. To be more selective let's say that certain digits need to arrive to call Phone Port 2. We cannot control the "caller" as we checked SpoofCallerID so that the incoming CallerID is passed along from the OBi110 Line Port to the OBi202 Phone Port 2 . So we first change the call being sent from the OBi110:

OBi110 Physical Interfaces > LINE Port > InboundCallRoute:
{ph,sp2(602@192.168.1.23:5062)}

This means that we are now sending digits 602 to the ip address of the OBi202 and selecting sp3's UserAgentPort. At the OBi202 incoming:

Voice Services > SP3 Service > X_InboundCallRoute:
{>602:ph2}

Where 602 is the "callee". The ">" is required to show that the "caller" is left blank in this rule and so allows any CallerID. Of course 602 could be replaced with a more complex set of digits for added security, so long as it matches in the outgoing OBi110 rule and the incoming OBi202 rule.

Now it is almost impossible for anyone to get a call into your OBi202 sp3, except by dialling in via your PSTN number.

Lots more regarding security here:

http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=5467.msg35387#msg35387

I'm guessing that you have more than enough to think about for now! Let us know how you get on.

Edit: Changes made to reflect that CallerID cannot be used for security if it needs to be passed onto Obi202 Phone Port 2.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: NoelB on July 23, 2015, 03:56:19 AM
Quote from: ianobi on July 22, 2015, 06:41:10 AM

So if you are aiming at say OBi202 sp3, then in the OBi110 the rule would be:
OBi110 Physical Interfaces > LINE Port > InboundCallRoute:
{ph,sp2(192.168.1.23:5062)}


Taking this a little bit further I have an obi202 and an obi110 working independently but rather than call out from the 202 line port I would like to direct the call to the 110 and use its line port to call out.
So would this work. In the 202 phone OBCR I have ,{(Mli):li}, change this to ,{(Mli):sp2(192.168.1.103:5061)} where this is the ip addr of the 110 and sp2 of obi110 is already configured with a sip voip provider.
Now comes my dilemma as to what to use as the incoming call route on 110 sp2 first to send the dialled number to the obi110 line port and secondly not to obstruct any call coming in on sp2 from the voip provider coming in to the phone port. Maybe I have to remove everything and set it up with a dummy and drop the voip provider on sp2.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 23, 2015, 05:29:36 AM
@ NoelB

If the OBi202 sp2 is not presently in use, then it needs to be set as a "fake" voip service as detailed above, except do not check:
Service Providers -> ITSP Profile B -> SIP -> X_SpoofCallerID

No need to drop the existing voip provider presently on OBi110 sp2. The trick here is identify all calls that are coming into the OBi110 sp2 from the OBi202 sp2 and route them to the OBi110 Line Port.

OBi110 Voice Services > SP2 Service > X_InboundCallRoute:
{12345>(xx.):li},{...existing rules here...

Where 12345 is the CallerID of the OBi202 sp2. This is the value:
OBi202 Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> AuthUserName : 12345
Obviously, substitute what you may already have in place of 12345.

To ensure the existing voip calls and these redirected calls can all be handled at the same time I would increase this setting like so:

OBi110 Voice Services -> SP2 Service -> MaxSessions : 4

Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 06:03:02 AM
Quote
Firstly, get the simple rule detailed above working!

Hmm sorry. Well it is sending but nothing is being received by the Obi202.

Here is the Obi110 log
Terminal ID   LINE1   SP2
Peer Name      
Peer Number      192.168.1.21:5062
Direction   Inbound   Outbound
13:39:35   Ringing   Forking to:PHONE1, SP2(192.168.1.21:5062)
13:39:36      Call Connected
13:39:41      End Call

Nothing on the 202 call log. I have checked IP and port. I have also tried setting up a fake service on the 202 as well as one that is currently in use.

Could the 202 be listening on its own network?
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 23, 2015, 07:16:43 AM
This address SP2(192.168.1.21:5062) should aim the call at sp3 on the OBi202. sp3 needs to be enabled and its InboundCallRoute needs to be "ph,ph2". Both these should be the default condition, but it is worth checking.

I don't see why it should make any difference if the OBi202 is in router or bridge mode, but you could try both to be certain.

The test call seems to have been very short - answered after 1 second I assume by the phone attached to the OBi110. Maybe try a little longer.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 07:32:40 AM
Quote from: ianobi on July 23, 2015, 07:16:43 AM
This address SP2(192.168.1.21:5062) should aim the call at sp3 on the OBi202. sp3 needs to be enabled and its InboundCallRoute needs to be "ph,ph2". Both these should be the default condition, but it is worth checking.
Checked those, they are correct

Quote
I don't see why it should make any difference if the OBi202 is in router or bridge mode, but you could try both to be certain.
Checked makes no difference

Quote
The test call seems to have been very short - answered after 1 second I assume by the phone attached to the OBi110. Maybe try a little longer.
Checked with no phone attached to the 110, but a phone directly attached to PSTN socket

Directly attached phone gives one ring, then it appears the 110 answers as well as forking the call.

Puzzling..... Any thoughts?


Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 08:24:04 AM
OK now it works.

Your original syntax, not the manual was right:

{ph1,sp2(1@192.168.1.21:5063)}

(I am using SP4 now, a fake service on the 202, and one of my normal services on the 110)

Some echo being heard.. I guess due to the additional delay. Lets see if its better than the 202 alone.

*Log from 110*
Terminal ID   LINE1   SP2
Peer Name      
Peer Number      1@192.168.1.21:5063
Direction   Inbound   Outbound
16:07:44   Ringing   Forking to:PHONE1, SP2(1@192.168.1.21:5063)
16:07:59      Call Connected
16:13:21   End Call


*Log from 202*
16:07:45   From SP4(30184009)   Fork to:
PH1
PH2
16:07:45      Ringing (PH1)
16:07:45      Ringing (PH2)
16:07:58      Call Connected (PH2)
16:13:21   Call Ended   
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 23, 2015, 08:25:59 AM
I don't have an OBi202, but I've just simulated your setup using an OBi110 and an OBi1032. Either firmware has changed or I'm just getting senile and forgetful! It seems the "@" format is required.

OBi110 Physical Interfaces > LINE Port > InboundCallRoute:
{ph,sp2(602@192.168.1.23:5062)}

Set up fake OBi202 sp3 as follows:

Service Providers -> ITSP Profile C -> SIP -> ProxyServer : 127.0.0.1

Voice Services -> SP3 Service -> Enable : (checked)
Voice Services -> SP3 Service > X_InboundCallRoute: {>602:ph,ph2}
Voice Services -> SP3 Service -> AuthUserName : (any letters or numbers but not blank)
Voice Services -> SP3 Service -> X_RegisterEnable : (unchecked)
Voice Services -> SP3 Service -> X_ServProvProfile : C
Voice Services -> SP3 Service -> CallerIDName : Whatever

This works for me all the time.


QuoteDirectly attached phone gives one ring, then it appears the 110 answers as well as forking the call.

That's very odd. Maybe its a symptom of the wrong setup. See how it goes with the new setup.

Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 08:28:13 AM
I think we discovered the same thing at the same time - see above!!!!
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 23, 2015, 08:30:51 AM
I was typing at the same time as you! If fake provider needed for sp4 use Profile D and change sp3 to sp 4 in last post.

I don't think this setup should add any delay. I wonder if echo is maybe an impedance matching problem between the OBi110 and line. Is there any echo when answering a call on the OBi110 Phone Port?
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 08:47:07 AM
Quote from: ianobi on July 23, 2015, 08:30:51 AM
I was typing at the same time as you! If fake provider needed for sp4 use Profile D and change sp3 to sp 4 in last post.

I don't think this setup should add any delay. I wonder if echo is maybe an impedance matching problem between the OBi110 and line. Is there any echo when answering a call on the OBi110 Phone Port?

The Obi 110 has less echo typically than the 202+Obiline, and a shorter delay echo, so the canceller copes well

This arrangement seems to create a long delay echo, though the canceller does seem to learn it. Or the jitter buffer reduces.

Echo always has an impedance matching element, in general it is not possible to match impedance exactly as they vary with frequency. But I cannot see how an additional one is being added here - the 110's behavior should be the operative one line-wise I would think, and the 202 phone-wise. The 101 and 202 phone impedances are identical. My line is challenging impedance-wise - I am 2-3 miles from the exchange.

What probably would introduce a further delay would be 1) an analog to digital conversion 2) adaptive jitter buffer starting. large. I think it must be 2. There is a star code to kill the jitter buffer for one call.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 08:54:16 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 08:47:07 AM
Quote from: ianobi on July 23, 2015, 08:30:51 AM
I was typing at the same time as you! If fake provider needed for sp4 use Profile D and change sp3 to sp 4 in last post.

I don't think this setup should add any delay. I wonder if echo is maybe an impedance matching problem between the OBi110 and line. Is there any echo when answering a call on the OBi110 Phone Port?

The Obi 110 has less echo typically than the 202+Obiline, and a shorter delay echo, so the canceller copes well

This arrangement seems to create a long delay echo, though the canceller does seem to learn it. Or the jitter buffer reduces.

Echo always has an impedance matching element, in general it is not possible to match impedance exactly as they vary with frequency. But I cannot see how an additional one is being added here - the 110's behavior should be the operative one line-wise I would think, and the 202 phone-wise. The 101 and 202 phone impedances are identical. My line is challenging impedance-wise - I am 2-3 miles from the exchange.

What probably would introduce a further delay would be 1) an analog to digital conversion 2) adaptive jitter buffer starting. large. I think it must be 2. There is a star code to kill the jitter buffer for one call.

Jitter seems likely from this 202 call status. It also seems to be repacketising, possibly because I have different RTP packet sizes set?

Terminal ID   SP4   PHONE1
State   connected   connected
Peer Name      
Peer Number   30184009   
Start Time   16:50:33   16:50:33
Duration   00:00:07   00:00:07
Direction   Inbound   Inbound
Peer RTP Address   192.168.1.23:16804   
Local RTP Address   192.168.1.21:17110   
RTP Transport   UDP   
Audio Codec   tx=G711A; rx=G711A   
RTP Packetization (ms)   tx=10; rx=20   
RTP Packet Count   tx=731; rx=365   
RTP Byte Count   tx=67252; rx=62780   
Peer Clock Differential Rate   0 PPM   
Packets In Jitter Buffer   5   
Packets Out-Of-Order   0   
Packets (10ms) Interpolated   0   
Packets Late (Dropped)   0   
Packets Lost   0   
Packet Loss Rate   0 %   
Packet Drop Rate   0 %   
Jitter Buffer Length   90 ms   
Received Interarrival Jitter   2 ms   
DTMF Digits Received   0   
Jitter Buffer Underruns   0   
Jitter Buffer Overruns   0   
Sequence number discontinuities   0   
skew compensation   0 ms   
send silence   0   
MOS   4.42   
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 08:59:12 AM
OK same packet size, now it is passed straight thru to 202. No call status.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 09:05:12 AM
Quote from: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 08:59:12 AM
OK same packet size, now it is passed straight thru to 202. No call status.

Sorry my mistake picked up wrong phone!

Jitter is very high for a lan - what gives I wonder?

Problem remains:
Terminal ID   SP4   PHONE1
State   connected   connected
Peer Name      
Peer Number   30184009   
Start Time   17:02:33   17:02:33
Duration   00:00:05   00:00:05
Direction   Inbound   Inbound
Peer RTP Address   192.168.1.23:16806   
Local RTP Address   192.168.1.21:17118   
RTP Transport   UDP   
Audio Codec   tx=G711A; rx=G711A   
RTP Packetization (ms)   tx=10; rx=10   
RTP Packet Count   tx=548; rx=546   
RTP Byte Count   tx=50416; rx=50232   
Peer Clock Differential Rate   0 PPM   
Packets In Jitter Buffer   9   
Packets Out-Of-Order   0   
Packets (10ms) Interpolated   3   
Packets Late (Dropped)   1   
Packets Lost   3   
Packet Loss Rate   0 %   
Packet Drop Rate   0 %   
Jitter Buffer Length   90 ms   
Received Interarrival Jitter   10 ms   
DTMF Digits Received   0   
Jitter Buffer Underruns   1   
Jitter Buffer Overruns   0   
Sequence number discontinuities   3   
skew compensation   10 ms   
send silence   0   
MOS   4.40   
      
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 23, 2015, 09:28:07 AM
I just called from my OBi110 to my OBi1032 using direct ip to ip calling and got these results on same call:

OBi110
Jitter Buffer Length  170 ms
Received Interarrival Jitter  1 ms

OBi1032
Jitter Buffer Length 250 ms 
Received Interarrival Jitter 0 ms

Both devices are in the same lan subnet. Any query to Obihai normally gets the reply "the Jitter Buffer is fully adaptive to network conditions". I would expect my two devices in the same room as the router would be a pretty much perfect network! The OBi110 Jitter Buffer Length does slowly reduce, but I have never seen it below 120. The OBi1032 simply stays at 250 - I think there may need to  be some firmware tweaking on that one!

To be fair, call quality seems very high and MOS is good as it should be over a perfect network!

Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 09:33:00 AM
From manual:

$NOEC1 = Disable echo canceller once in the next call on this phone port (phone
-
port specific;
admissible
value: 1) (Not
available on OBi100/OBi110)

$NOJI1
= Disable jitter buffer adjustment once in the next call on this phone port (phone
-
port specific;
admissible
value: 1)
(Not available on OBi100/OBi110)

I am not sure if disabling the adjustment gets you a low value......
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 23, 2015, 09:51:51 AM
This has come up before in connection with sending pace maker data over a voip connection!

QuoteOBI200 ATA Unit – See http://www.obihai.com/OBiDeviceAdminGuide
Add a star code *99 as this:
*99, Modem Call, set($Noji1,200),set($Noec1,1),set($Cdm1,1),call(18002975493)
The 3 set() commands tell the obi to do the following for the next outbound call:
1. Disable Jitter Buffer Adjustment, and use a fixed jitter buffer length of 200 ms
2. Disable Echo Canceller
3. Use only G711u codec

Change Codecs
G711U  PacketizationPeriod = 10

I think I'm going to need a beer later   8)
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 23, 2015, 12:34:30 PM
Quote from: ianobi on July 23, 2015, 09:51:51 AM
This has come up before in connection with sending pace maker data over a voip connection!

QuoteOBI200 ATA Unit – See http://www.obihai.com/OBiDeviceAdminGuide
Add a star code *99 as this:
*99, Modem Call, set($Noji1,200),set($Noec1,1),set($Cdm1,1),call(18002975493)
The 3 set() commands tell the obi to do the following for the next outbound call:
1. Disable Jitter Buffer Adjustment, and use a fixed jitter buffer length of 200 ms
2. Disable Echo Canceller
3. Use only G711u codec

Change Codecs
G711U  PacketizationPeriod = 10

I think I'm going to need a beer later   8)

Indeed two beers, if not a barrel :)  Can you do that for inbound as well?

(Thanks very much for all your help)

Mike
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: ianobi on July 24, 2015, 03:40:18 AM
I think that the Star Code approach probably only works for the OBi2xx series. OBi1xx series is a definite no. I've just tried it using an OBi1032 and that does not work. However, with the OBi1032 it is possible to set the maximum jitter buffer length for each individual spX.

Ideas developed by azrobert and Mango seem to suggest that this format also works:
16042999000,Modem Call,set($Noji1,200),set($Noec1,1),set($Cdm1,3),call(16042999000)

In the relevant Star Code Profile / slot use the number to be dialled (16042999000 in this case) instead of an actual *99 type Star Code. I think that you would need to dial manually (not via a "send key") to allow the Star Code DigitMap(?) to pick up the number. That's needs some trials to prove and I don't have an OBI202 to try it out!

I don't know any way to influence jitter buffer length for incoming calls.
Title: Re: Setting up an Obi 202 + Obiline in the UK (Draft)
Post by: Mouse on July 24, 2015, 08:10:12 AM
Quote from: ianobi on July 24, 2015, 03:40:18 AM
I think that the Star Code approach probably only works for the OBi2xx series. OBi1xx series is a definite no. I've just tried it using an OBi1032 and that does not work. However, with the OBi1032 it is possible to set the maximum jitter buffer length for each individual spX.

Ideas developed by azrobert and Mango seem to suggest that this format also works:
16042999000,Modem Call,set($Noji1,200),set($Noec1,1),set($Cdm1,3),call(16042999000)

In the relevant Star Code Profile / slot use the number to be dialled (16042999000 in this case) instead of an actual *99 type Star Code. I think that you would need to dial manually (not via a "send key") to allow the Star Code DigitMap(?) to pick up the number. That's needs some trials to prove and I don't have an OBI202 to try it out!

I don't know any way to influence jitter buffer length for incoming calls.


Interesting indeed but unfortunately if it does not work on the 110 and does not work inbound from the LAN it probably won't allow the echo problem arising from linking the devices to be solved?

The main echo problem I have is on line 1, PSTN. As with many people I need inbound PSTN at reasonable quality and the Obiline 202, while better than an SPA 3102 is marginal. (Outbound can be all SIP except for emergencies). Still trying to decide if it is good enough. The 110 is better, but much more limited in other ways.

I have wondered if you can set any parameter in the Obiline (packet size, jitter buffer etc) as it must translate analog to digital in the Obline device, it must get those values from somewhere!!!!

Thank you very much indeed for all your kind help though.

Mike