I'll be presenting the features of Obie to a group of ~100 very active senior citizens. Their interest is in saving $$ while getting quality and reliable phone communication. Many of them are technically savvy, many can't spell VOIP. I'm a retired BSME with knowledge somewhere between the two.
An important piece of information is the route a phone call takes. I need information that would allow me to construct a flow chart showing each step, each service, each device, that's involved from the time a caller dials, to the time a callee (??) answers. If the ensuing conversation takes a different route, what would that route be?
OBi Device Administration Guide (http://www.obihai.com/docs/OBiDeviceAdminGuide.pdf)
Quote from: Lateralg on February 06, 2012, 04:12:58 PM
I'll be presenting the features of Obie to a group of ~100 very active senior citizens.
I wouldn't touch that project with a ten-foot pole. Elderly people need reliable access to 911 and other emergency services. Though you would of course set up their OBi devices with CallCentric or another reliable provider for 911, any failure of equipment, power, Internet service or VoIP provider would prevent a 911 call from going through. With a group that large, there is a significant probability of that happening, especially since a person not technically savvy may take a long time to recognize a problem or get it corrected.
If someone died or ended up in a vegetative state as a result of being unable to reach 911, it would weigh on my conscience for the rest of my life. Possibly, one of their kids would sue. In addition to risks associated with emergencies, you will likely be inundated with support calls from clueless users.
In most places, one can get "lifeline", "basic", "low-use" or "measured" landline service for low cost, especially if they qualify as low-income. If the landline includes unlimited local calling, you can call through Google Voice to get free long distance and good international rates. If not, you can make free calls by using the Call button on the GV site. Of course, you can also make and receive calls with Gmail.
An OBi110, backed up with a lifeline landline, may be a good choice. Make sure that the bypass works (you can access the landline when the OBi has no power) and that 911 calls are properly routed to the landline; see RonR's post http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=34.msg14280#msg14280 .
If you really want to go without a landline, make sure that your "customers" have suitable backup. For example, they should keep their cell phone charger at bedside and put the phone on charge every night. There should be a plan for a third option, appropriate to their living situation (neighbor, doorman, cellular-based panic button, etc.)
Quote from: Stewart on February 06, 2012, 06:11:54 PM
Make sure that the bypass works (you can access the landline when the OBi has no power)
Recent reports are that the OBi hardware revision currently being shipped does not contain the fail-safe relay. Consequently, any telephones connected to it are totally inoperative when the OBi has no power.
Quote from: RonR on February 06, 2012, 06:20:53 PMRecent reports are that the OBi hardware revision currently being shipped does not contain the fail-safe relay. Consequently, any telephones connected to it are totally inoperative when the OBi has no power.
I saw those posts, but was hoping that there was just a few defective units. Intentionally omitting the relay sounds like a lawsuit ready to happen. I just noticed that the manual now says "Logical FXS to FXO Relay For Service Continuity in Case of VoIP Service Failure", but I doubt that even that functionality is reliable -- there are many reasons why a device could be successfully registered but an outbound call won't work.
For the OP: a conservative approach is to keep a line-powered, corded phone, connected directly to the landline. Of course, you won't be able to make GV calls or access other OBi functions from that phone.
Quote from: Stewart on February 06, 2012, 06:34:27 PM
I saw those posts, but was hoping that there was just a few defective units. Intentionally omitting the relay sounds like a lawsuit ready to happen. I just noticed that the manual now says "Logical FXS to FXO Relay For Service Continuity in Case of VoIP Service Failure", but I doubt that even that functionality is reliable -- there are many reasons why a device could be successfully registered but an outbound call won't work.
I didn't look for it, but I believe one post quoted a response from Obihai confirming the omission of the relay in current units.
I think the manual has always listed "Logical FXS to FXO Relay For Service Continuity in Case of VoIP Service Failure", but AFAIK, nothing but a power failure (and a reboot) deactivates the (once present) relay. The OBi does a horrible job of detecting a VoIP trunk failure when it comes to using Trunk Groups and I've never seen any indication it attempts to deactivate the relay under those conditions.
Meanwhile, back to the topic:
"The route an Obie/Google Voice call takes"
Being one of the "elderly" people, I'm well aware of the importance of 911, and will address ways of dealing with it during my presentation.
Most of my audience needs to communicate with children & grandchildren who live in another state or country. They're likely to retain existing land lines if they go to Obie.
Without knowledge of Obie's capabilities, they're likely to go with Ooma, MagicJack, Vonage, Skype ... and receive less value for their time and money.
I sincerely appreciate the thought & time put into your replies. I also hope that you can help us elderly folk get the information we're looking for.
RonR
Thanks for the link to the administration guide.
Skimming it leads me to the conclusion that we really don't need Google Voice. In fact, it appears that Obie capabilities far exceed those of GV. Correct?
Is there a glossary of terms available anywhere?
I also conclude that we can count on Obie being around for awhile. They have clearly invested a huge amount in developing capabilities. The very-well-done guide itself represents a significant investment.
Lateralg,
The OBi100/110 is a hardware device produced by Obihai. While Obihai does provide an OBiTALK Service voice server that allows OBi units to communicate with each other at no extra charge, a separate service provider such as Google Voice or a SIP provider is required for making PSTN calls.
As to the future of Obihai and the OBiTALK servers, we all hope they will be around for a long while, but there are certainly no guarantees. There are also no guarantees of uptime on the OBiTALK configuration and voice servers, which have suffered a few outages over time. Loss of the configuration server poses no real problem as the OBi can be configured directly. Loss of the voice server can also be circumvented by using SIP to interconnect the OBi's, but it requires slightly more in the way of configuration.
Quote from: Stewart on February 06, 2012, 06:11:54 PM
Quote from: Lateralg on February 06, 2012, 04:12:58 PM
I'll be presenting the features of Obie to a group of ~100 very active senior citizens.
I wouldn't touch that project with a ten-foot pole.
Listen to Stewart now and believe him later.
When does one go from being just an old fart to elderly? I guess if I have to ask....
Many of us haven't arrived at either stage. 8)
Gary,
I'm not sure that a (necessarily) dumbed down description of the OBi would do much good. For example, you could explain to someone in a few minutes, the basics of how an automobile works, which might be useful if he were afraid of cars, or just curious. However, that brief outline would be insufficient for him to evaluate the advantages of one design over another. It's the same with VoIP -- in the simple view, OBi, Ooma and Vonage all look the same! (MagicJack and Skype would be different, only in that most of the work is done in the user's PC, rather than dedicated hardware.) Anyhow, here goes:
The call setup and teardown "signaling" is separate from the voice path. When you take the phone off the hook, the OBi notices the current flow and provides dial tone. It decodes the DTMF (touch tones) and sends the number dialed, along with (previously configured) user account information to a Google server. If the request is valid, Google contacts an interexchange carrier (IXC), e.g. AT&T or Bandwidth.com, who initiates a call on the PSTN. If successful, a signal is sent back via Google to the OBi, which plays ringback tone to the user. When the call is answered, the Google server sends info to the OBi, giving the IP address and port of a server to receive voice packets.
The OBi converts the analog voice signal from the user's phone to digital samples, taken 8000 times per second. Each sample is encoded into eight bits. Each 20 milliseconds of voice (160 samples) is sent over the Internet in an IP packet to a Google server, which forwards it to the IXC server. For each packet, the IXC sends 160 samples over the traditional TDM (time division multiplex) telephone network, which routes it to the called party's central office. There, the samples are converted back to analog and sent over a copper pair to the destination phone, which reproduces the caller's voice. The entire process also operates in reverse, providing a speech path back to the caller.
Thanks Stewart, that's a big help.
As usual, answers generate new questions. My elder brain is working on them now. If I remember I wrote this, I'll return with another post containing questions.
If you don't see another post, then either I forgot, or ............
BTW, my avatar photo was taken right after I passsed the MSF test at age 74. I was the only one in our class to ace the parking lot maneuver test.
If it would be useful, I'd be glad to post my suggestions / opinions on phone services for your friends' situations. When is your presentation?
BTW, I Googled your moniker and found that we have a lot in common. For starters, both of us are retired engineers (in fields unrelated to telephony) and migratory birds.
Stewart, that's an offer I can't refuse.
Presentation is scheduled for April. I'm now putting together an outline, making a list of questions, learning Powerpoint and how I can feed it with the information I'm capturing in Evernote (the combination looks very promising)
I'll begin assembling a cogent list of questions by end of week. Is posting them here a good way to go? Seems like it would be, since others can benefit.
Is this consistent with your offer?
There is actually a way to still call 911 without a landline. It involves using a bluetooth capable cell phone and a device that interfaces bluetooth to RJ-11 that then connects to the POTS port of the OBI110. One such device you can get for $30 to do this is the Cobra PhoneLynx: http://www.cobraphonelynx.com/
Since all cell phones must be able to call 911 even without a service plan, linking a cell phone to the PhoneLynx through bluetooth and then connecting the PhoneLynx to the OBI110 will let 911 calls go through when they otherwise wouldn't work through Google Voice or other VoIP services. All that required is to just spend a little extra money on the hardware, but no service plan is needed.
Quote from: Utopium on February 11, 2012, 07:22:28 PM
There is actually a way to still call 911 without a landline. It involves using a bluetooth capable cell phone and a device that interfaces bluetooth to RJ-11 that then connects to the POTS port of the OBI110. One such device you can get for $30 to do this is the Cobra PhoneLynx: http://www.cobraphonelynx.com/
Since all cell phones must be able to call 911 even without a service plan, linking a cell phone to the PhoneLynx through bluetooth and then connecting the PhoneLynx to the OBI110 will let 911 calls go through when they otherwise wouldn't work through Google Voice or other VoIP services. All that required is to just spend a little extra money on the hardware, but no service plan is needed.
That plan gives you no advantage (except spending more money) over the easier option of directing your 911 calls to a non-911 emergency number as described in other posts. The flaw in both that approach and your suggested approach is the absence of E911 capability - where the emergency dispatcher is given the address of the calling party, which provides system capability to auto locate the nearest responding units and provide GPS guided directions to them.
I could have taken the non-911 emergency number route, but for $1.50 per month via Callcentric (and $1.50 setup), is it really worth risking someone's life if they can't give the emergency operator the proper location? I know that if my in-laws were visiting they don't have a clue.
In my opinion, removing a landline from an elderly person is foolhardy and not worth saving the money. Cutting their service to the bare minimum, and providing calling via the OBi and GV or other services, is the best way to go if saving money is your goal.
Quote from: Stewart on February 08, 2012, 07:48:28 PM
BTW, I Googled your moniker and found that we have a lot in common. For starters, both of us are retired engineers (in fields unrelated to telephony) and migratory birds.
Wow, the OBi forum is like eHarmony :D
Quote from: Rick on February 12, 2012, 09:05:49 AM
Quote from: Utopium on February 11, 2012, 07:22:28 PM
There is actually a way to still call 911 without a landline. It involves using a bluetooth capable cell phone and a device that interfaces bluetooth to RJ-11 that then connects to the POTS port of the OBI110. One such device you can get for $30 to do this is the Cobra PhoneLynx: http://www.cobraphonelynx.com/
Since all cell phones must be able to call 911 even without a service plan, linking a cell phone to the PhoneLynx through bluetooth and then connecting the PhoneLynx to the OBI110 will let 911 calls go through when they otherwise wouldn't work through Google Voice or other VoIP services. All that required is to just spend a little extra money on the hardware, but no service plan is needed.
That plan gives you no advantage (except spending more money) over the easier option of directing your 911 calls to a non-911 emergency number as described in other posts. The flaw in both that approach and your suggested approach is the absence of E911 capability - where the emergency dispatcher is given the address of the calling party, which provides system capability to auto locate the nearest responding units and provide GPS guided directions to them.
I could have taken the non-911 emergency number route, but for $1.50 per month via Callcentric (and $1.50 setup), is it really worth risking someone's life if they can't give the emergency operator the proper location? I know that if my in-laws were visiting they don't have a clue.
In my opinion, removing a landline from an elderly person is foolhardy and not worth saving the money. Cutting their service to the bare minimum, and providing calling via the OBi and GV or other services, is the best way to go if saving money is your goal.
Two things. One what is the present status on GPS equiped cell phones and E911? The other is I can see the cell phone as a backup for both land-line and internet going out. Rare but if one wants to be absolutely certain...
Is losing both land line & internet at same time really rare?
If we lose power, aren't our cordless land line phones dead? I wonder how many people thought to have an old fashioned plug-it-in-the-wall phone ready for this. And know where they hid it.
Quote from: Lateralg on February 13, 2012, 01:20:20 PM
Is losing both land line & internet at same time really rare?
If we lose power, aren't our cordless land line phones dead? I wonder how many people thought to have an old fashioned plug-it-in-the-wall phone ready for this. And know where they hid it.
To your point, anyone with a POTS line should have a cord phone plugged into at least one of the phone jacks in the home.
Stewart, are you still there? If not, anyone care to sub for him?
If a person doesn't want to use Google Voice:
1) How does he/she find SIP provider?
2) On a 0-10 scale of difficulty, where 10 is in Steven Hawking's territory, how difficult to make Obie user-friendly? The Obie advanced setup seems to have as much, or more, features than GV, but it looks a bit intimidating.
Rick,
SHOULD have. Excellent point that I'll emphasize in my presentation to the elder folk.
Quote from: Lateralg on February 13, 2012, 01:32:25 PM
Stewart, are you still there? If not, anyone care to sub for him?
If a person doesn't want to use Google Voice:
1) How does he/she find SIP provider?
2) On a 0-10 scale of difficulty, where 10 is in Steven Hawking's territory, how difficult to make Obie user-friendly? The Obie advanced setup seems to have as much, or more, features than GV, but it looks a bit intimidating.
FYI, the device is an OBi 100 or OBi 110, not an Obie... ;)
Given your audience, if they don't want to use GV, and they don't have a need to have two OBi devices communicating to each other, they should stick with their landlines. With a parent in her mid 70s and more elderly in-laws, even basic technology is past their capabilities. IMHO, the OBi devices are beyond their capabilities even with GV. The idea of porting your landline to a prepaid cell, and then to GV is beyond their capabilities, as is the concept of getting rid of their landline... Very few will understand it enough to get it running successfully, and OBi does not have the technical support staff to help them. GV has no technical support staff.
I'm several decades away from that age and very technically proficient with computers and I found the OBi setup not straightforward. The GV piece was no problem, but Callcentric setup had issues and it took several days and lots of questions on these forums for me to figure out the problem. Without RonR's help I would have sent the device back.
Also, remember that any of them that have home security alarms likely cannot get rid of their POTS line unless they get replacement coverage from a cellular service or an valid internet monitoring service, both of which cost more money... So the only benefit of the OBi to them would be free calls (to US and Canada via GV), they still have to keep their landline.
Sorry that I've been away from this thread for awhile. I'll try to address the OBi-related stuff in another post; here are a few comments on the immediate discussion:
If you have a landline that includes unlimited local calling, you can use GV for long distance, without an OBi or other additional hardware. Once set up, you dial your GV number and immediately get the voicemail menu. Press 2 to make a call, then dial the destination number and press #. For domestic calls, it's free, at least for this year. IMO, it's not the best value for international calling, though it's a simple choice for light users. Although this usage requires multi-stage dialing, many phones allow you to insert a pause in a speed-dial or contact list entry, thus automating the procedure.
If your "lifeline" or similar landline has a cost for local calls, you can still use GV for free local and long distance calling. From the GV Web site, you can click the Call button and enter a number, or click the "call" link on an Inbox, History or Contact entry. Your landline rings; you pick up and the destination number is called.
A GV account used in either of the above scenarios can also be useful for incoming; choose a number near your kids/grandkids and they can make a local call to reach you.
I agree with the others that a device for calling 911 via cellular is not e911; if you are unable to speak the dispatch may not reach you in time. However, it's better than nothing and may be suitable for someone without a landline. I have such a device, primarily as a backup for my alarm system, but it's connected so that I can also make a voice call, if my power/UPS or Internet are down.
Quote from: Lateralg on February 13, 2012, 01:20:20 PM
Is losing both land line & internet at same time really rare?
If we lose power, aren't our cordless land line phones dead? I wonder how many people thought to have an old fashioned plug-it-in-the-wall phone ready for this. And know where they hid it.
Well I get my internet via cable which comes over a pole mounted wire and land-line via a buried copper, and have a cell phone which can be a backup for both services. Three different paths that would have to be knocked out. Power failure is addressed by UPSes and a generator. VoIP is still a relatively young technology and it shows. mATAs point in the right direction except for the provider tie-in.
Quote from: Lateralg on February 07, 2012, 10:13:50 AMWithout knowledge of Obie's capabilities, they're likely to go with Ooma, MagicJack, Vonage, Skype ... and receive less value for their time and money.
Comments below are my personal opinion of those services:
Ooma has excellent quality and reliability, with good support, but is IMO a poor value. The basic service is little more than a POTS replacement. In addition to a big up-front payment and a high porting charge, fees and taxes run ~$5/mo. An OBi with GV and a SIP provider for 911 would be less expensive and much more flexible. Ooma Premier includes concurrent calls and many other features, but at ~$15/mo. + hardware costs, one of the Vonage competitors is probably a better choice.
The original MagicJack is a piece of junk and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. The software is invasive, often causes problems with other applications and can't be completely uninstalled. To make or receive calls, the computer must be left on; power costs often negate any savings. MagicJack Plus doesn't require a computer and has several other advantages, though an OBi setup is usually a better choice. I might recommend MJ+ to for someone without technical skills, who didn't have a friend or family member to provide support.
Vonage World runs ~$34/mo. with fees and taxes and is a poor value for most people, except those with heavy calling (> 1500 min.) to the covered international destinations, or those that find a particular feature compelling. Vonage World Premium is about twice as expensive, but might make sense for those with high volume to mobiles in the included countries. There are several companies who, like Vonage, supply preconfigured equipment for use with their service and have good support. My favorites are VOIPo (less expensive) and Phonepower (more friendly for foreign use). Both include a "cloned line" feature, which allows you to make or receive a call while e.g. your wife is on the phone. Both offer 60 min./mo. of "free" international calling and an inexpensive option for 1200 min.; the list of included destinations is similar to that of Vonage World.
I recommend a free Skype account, in addition to other VoIP services that you may have, not for calling phones, but to call another Skype user on their computer or mobile device. Such calls are free and have much better sound quality than offered by a telephone, roughly what you hear on radio or TV. You also get video. I didn't think much of "talking head" video calling, but the proliferation of smartphones and tablets has made a huge difference. Your grandkid can walk around with a mobile device and show you what s/he has made or drawn, their vacation place, etc. It's the next best thing to a visit. Also, a traveler may have access to Skype, when other services are unavailable or expensive. Pay-per-minute calling on Skype to PSTN numbers is usually not a good value, but for certain heavy international calling patterns, a monthly Skype plan makes sense. For Skype calls from a regular phone, I recommend hardware intended for Skype; using the OBi is complex and not very robust.
Quote from: Ostracus on February 13, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
Quote from: Lateralg on February 13, 2012, 01:20:20 PM
Is losing both land line & internet at same time really rare?
If we lose power, aren't our cordless land line phones dead? I wonder how many people thought to have an old fashioned plug-it-in-the-wall phone ready for this. And know where they hid it.
Well I get my internet via cable which comes over a pole mounted wire and land-line via a buried copper, and have a cell phone which can be a backup for both services. Three different paths that would have to be knocked out. Power failure is addressed by UPSes and a generator. VoIP is still a relatively young technology and it shows. mATAs point in the right direction except for the provider tie-in.
Need to remember that you having power is just part of the equation. Phone company and cable company devices, all along the route to your house, have to have power. During an extended outage of several days, it's very likely that cable will stop working, and phone will also. During an outage in PA we lost both, phone company put a generator on their switch but then wouldn't allow anyone to fill it with gas and it kept going out... Same issue with cell towers of course.
Only foolproof method is 2 cans and a string.
Quote"FYI, the device is an OBi 100 or OBi 110, not an Obie...
Given your audience, if they don't want to use GV, and they don't have a need to have two OBi devices communicating to each other, they should stick with their landlines. With a parent in her mid 70s and more elderly in-laws, even basic technology is past their capabilities. IMHO, the OBi devices are beyond their capabilities even with GV. The idea of porting your landline to a prepaid cell, and then to GV is beyond their capabilities, as is the concept of getting rid of their landline... Very few will understand it enough to get it running successfully, and OBi does not have the technical support staff to help them. GV has no technical support staff."
Thanks for the FYI Rick.
The GV, as in Green Valley Computer Club, does have technical support.
Quote from: Lateralg on February 15, 2012, 10:34:59 AM
Quote
Thanks for the FYI Rick.
The GV, as in Green Valley Computer Club, does have technical support.
I don't know what that means. My point is that Google Voice (GV in my posts) has no technical support that your senior citizens (or anyone else) is going to find useful. Coupled with OBi's level of support, and this isn't the right solution for many.
Even if you put together a group of people to provide these people with support, you'll find that it's like talking Greek to them.
Rick,
I understand the point you're trying to make, but have a real problem with the broad generalization based on a number (age). I've been your age. If you're lucky, you'll some day reach my age and see that it really is just a number.
I could find a sample of people in their 20's, 30's, or 40's that I wouldn't trust to turn on my computer. But I'm not about to generalize by characterizing any of these ages as being computer illiterate.
I hope you don't suddenly become computer illiterate when you become a senior citizen. You bring too much to the party for this to happen. I value, and thank you, for your technical input.
QuoteOoma has excellent quality and reliability, with good support, but is IMO a poor value. The basic service is little more than a POTS replacement. In addition to a big up-front payment and a high porting charge, fees and taxes run ~$5/mo. An OBi with GV and a SIP provider for 911 would be less expensive and much more flexible. Ooma Premier includes concurrent calls and many other features, but at ~$15/mo. + hardware costs, one of the Vonage competitors is probably a better choice.
The original MagicJack is a piece of junk and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. The software is invasive, often causes problems with other applications and can't be completely uninstalled. To make or receive calls, the computer must be left on; power costs often negate any savings. MagicJack Plus doesn't require a computer and has several other advantages, though an OBi setup is usually a better choice. I might recommend MJ+ to for someone without technical skills, who didn't have a friend or family member to provide support.
Vonage World runs ~$34/mo. with fees and taxes and is a poor value for most people, except those with heavy calling (> 1500 min.) to the covered international destinations, or those that find a particular feature compelling. Vonage World Premium is about twice as expensive, but might make sense for those with high volume to mobiles in the included countries. There are several companies who, like Vonage, supply preconfigured equipment for use with their service and have good support. My favorites are VOIPo (less expensive) and Phonepower (more friendly for foreign use). Both include a "cloned line" feature, which allows you to make or receive a call while e.g. your wife is on the phone. Both offer 60 min./mo. of "free" international calling and an inexpensive option for 1200 min.; the list of included destinations is similar to that of Vonage World.
I recommend a free Skype account, in addition to other VoIP services that you may have, not for calling phones, but to call another Skype user on their computer or mobile device. Such calls are free and have much better sound quality than offered by a telephone, roughly what you hear on radio or TV. You also get video. I didn't think much of "talking head" video calling, but the proliferation of smartphones and tablets has made a huge difference. Your grandkid can walk around with a mobile device and show you what s/he has made or drawn, their vacation place, etc. It's the next best thing to a visit. Also, a traveler may have access to Skype, when other services are unavailable or expensive. Pay-per-minute calling on Skype to PSTN numbers is usually not a good value, but for certain heavy international calling patterns, a monthly Skype plan makes sense. For Skype calls from a regular phone, I recommend hardware intended for Skype; using the OBi is complex and not very robust.Quote
Thanks Stewart. My presentation keeps getting richer in content.
Quote from: Lateralg on February 15, 2012, 11:09:46 AM
Rick,
I understand the point you're trying to make, but have a real problem with the broad generalization based on a number (age). I've been your age. If you're lucky, you'll some day reach my age and see that it really is just a number.
I could find a sample of people in their 20's, 30's, or 40's that I wouldn't trust to turn on my computer. But I'm not about to generalize by characterizing any of these ages as being computer illiterate.
I hope you don't suddenly become computer illiterate when you become a senior citizen. You bring too much to the party for this to happen. I value, and thank you, for your technical input.
The only reason age comes into it is that as technology gets introduced, older generations have a harder time understanding it. True for all of us. My kids understand things that I can't follow at all.
My father in-law wired huge factory machines and is an electrician. He can't understand the basic cabling of a VCR to TV hookup... He has no grasp of how a VCR tape can exist on a DVD. And he confuses cell phone technology with a portable house phone. Simply a matter of things being invented that passed him by. Knows more about electrical wiring than I will ever know.
Rick,
I Understand your position.
I'm going to re-check the connections and configurations on my TV, TiVo, DVD player, DVD recorder, Sound System, Desktop PC, Modem, Router, Two Laptops, Wife's desktop PC, External hard drive backup, Two Scanners, Two Printers.
I better do this because they were all set up when I was 76 years old.
If all is okay, I'll install & test the hard drive dock UPS delivered today.
Tomorrow, after Computer Club meeting on Android O/S, (I have a XOOM ... Ice Cream Sandwich O/S is a significant improvement over Honeycomb) I resume assembly of my MakerGear Mendel Prusa 3D printer. When my aged legs give out after 4-5 hours at the work bench, I'll resume enhancing my capabilities with one of: Sketchup 3D CAD, Photoshop, ProShow Gold, Excel, PowerPoint, Evernote, Obi-related stuff preparing for my presentation, and helping Stan, my 91-year-old friend, undo what he did to his PC.
About 7:00, wife & I will kick back in our senior-citizen chairs, & eat dinner while watching a streaming NetFlix movie.
Early the next morning: More mind candy.
Dang! Having a foggy, barely-functional, 77-year-old brain is a real drag.
It's just a number, Rick.
(All of the above is true, but I may have omitted a few things due to faulty memory)
Quote from: Lateralg on February 15, 2012, 04:43:45 PM
.... and helping Stan, my 91-year-old friend, undo what he did to his PC. ....
Priceless.
Just a personal opinion on some of the options related to OOMA and Vonage.
I had the "pleasure" to try/use both of them:
About 5 months ago I decided to move from Comcast voice to OOMA: I was basically
motivated to eliminate the exorbitant Comcast voice charges and rental fees
for their modem. But I will say that OOMA was unusable day in/day out.
Really crappy/choppy quality, hit or miss availability etc etc. Truely unusable.
It's possible it was just me but at least I wanted to volunteer this as a data point.
After a few back and forth with tech support I gave up and returned equipment, I cancelled
OOMA and moved phone # to Vonage.
On the Vonage front I have to say that I'm pretty satisfied: reliable service,
solid and consistent voice quality. The main reason that Vonage
and a pseudo-LINE is still in place in my house is because of my other "house customers" that have
zero tolerance for a phone failing to ring or to call. I pay $26/month and that includes
free calls to about 60 countries.
If it was just up to me, I wouldn't be using either. But if you dont have a choice, between the two of them,
I would go with Vonage.
L.
Quote from: Rick on February 13, 2012, 01:27:23 PM
Quote from: Lateralg on February 13, 2012, 01:20:20 PM
Is losing both land line & internet at same time really rare?
To your point, anyone with a POTS line should have a cord phone plugged into at least one of the phone jacks in the home.
Except Rick, in such a dire emergency when you have no time to get to the other side of your house where the corded phone is or you are immobilized the whole thing makes no sense. You are , in most cases, better of just carrying your cell phone with you all the time. Except in situation when you can reasonably expect 911 use combined with an extreme situation those worries are a bit absurd.I live without a POTS since almost 3 years and frankly, I have much more serious worries than that. :)
This request may go beyond the intent of this thread. If so, I hope our administrator gives me some advice.
I'd like feedback from people who have used a VOIP service. Specifically:
* What do you LIKE about the service?
* What did you DISLIKE about the service? (If "DISLIKE" is too strong, state the improvements you'd like to see.)
* Initial cost
* Annual cost
I'm hoping for results from:
* MagicJack (orriginal)
* MagicJack+
* Ooma
* Vonage
* Skype
* CallCentric
* Obi
* Google Voice alone
Or, even better, a link to a similar study.
Quote from: Lateralg on February 23, 2012, 02:34:03 PMOr, even better, a link to a similar study.
Not a study, but you can find customer reviews of many VoIP providers at http://www.broadbandreports.com/isplist?t=voip (note the "Reviews" column in the chart, and click on the number) — however, be aware that some of them haven't had an update in years. Those of you that have more recent experience with a provider could post updated comments there, if you like.
Hey Lateralg,
I'm wondering...did you ever get a straight answer to your original question, "The route an Obie/Google Voice call takes"?
I'd be very interested to see your flow chart, once you have it worked out.
My question relates to the route taken by a call when dialing from the Obion application on an Android phone. I'm wondering if the call is physically routed back through the Obi110 box at my home, before routing out via GV. If that's the case, then any call out from my wifi 8)android phone will be limited by the bandwidth (and power reliability) of my home internet connection.
It'd be great if there was a way for the Obion app on the android to directly access GV (or, Callcentric, whatever) without routing back to the box. Maybe there is a way, but I haven't yet figured it out (only have had the Obi110 for a few days).
Also...very cool that you're providing a seminar to "old folks" (like us)...that is, people old enough to remember stepper switches for POTS dialing. 8)
thanks, TheHoaryHound
Quote from: TheHoaryHound on February 29, 2012, 11:43:38 AM
Hey Lateralg,
~snip~
My question relates to the route taken by a call when dialing from the Obion application on an Android phone. I'm wondering if the call is physically routed back through the Obi110 box at my home, before routing out via GV. If that's the case, then any call out from my wifi 8)android phone will be limited by the bandwidth (and power reliability) of my home internet connection.
~snip~
RE: Route taken by a call when dialing from the Obion application on an Android phone.
Just a idea:
Quick way to test would be to remove power to OBi 110 /router... If call goes thru call routing is not dependent on OBi 110 being powered up.
The only protocol that OBiON Apps speak is OBiTALK Service protocol. All calls from OBiON Apps must go through your OBi except for calls to other OBi's or OBiON Apps.
Would love to see a "BigObi-in-the-Cloud" to take connections from ObiOn soft phone endpoints, and then route to the user's stored VOIP accounts.
I wonder how much additional build out that would take, given the existing services already provided by Obihai. Maybe a lot?
Sure would be cool to see a service that combines Obi's "box in the house" together with a phone based CSipSimple feature such as direct to voip.
Quote from: RonR on February 06, 2012, 06:20:53 PM
Quote from: Stewart on February 06, 2012, 06:11:54 PM
Make sure that the bypass works (you can access the landline when the OBi has no power)
Recent reports are that the OBi hardware revision currently being shipped does not contain the fail-safe relay. Consequently, any telephones connected to it are totally inoperative when the OBi has no power.
For my part, I didn't know this and wouldn't want to trust it in any case, so I bought an inexpensive CyberPower 425VA UPS (that looks like a glorified surge protector) and connected ALL my network and telephony stuff to it. The battery in it is pretty much useless for running a desktop computer, but it's more than enough backup juice to power the router, modem, Obi110, and cordless phone for quite a few hours I expect.
Quote from: MichiganTelephone on February 27, 2012, 08:23:47 AM
Quote from: Lateralg on February 23, 2012, 02:34:03 PMOr, even better, a link to a similar study.
Not a study, but you can find customer reviews of many VoIP providers at http://www.broadbandreports.com/isplist?t=voip (note the "Reviews" column in the chart, and click on the number) — however, be aware that some of them haven't had an update in years. Those of you that have more recent experience with a provider could post updated comments there, if you like.
Thanks Michigan. Will do soon. Haven't checked out the link yet, I have a 4-week procrastination cushion.
Where in MI?
Quote from: TheHoaryHound on February 29, 2012, 11:43:38 AM
Hey Lateralg,
I'm wondering...did you ever get a straight answer to your original question, "The route an Obie/Google Voice call takes"?
I'd be very interested to see your flow chart, once you have it worked out.
Also...very cool that you're providing a seminar to "old folks" (like us)...that is, people old enough to remember stepper switches for POTS dialing.
No straight answer yet. I bet, if flow chart exists, it has a lot of diamond-shaped boxes signifying "If-then"
This quote appeared on my Google home page. Seems like it fits quite well here.
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother."
Albert Einstein
Quote from: Lateralg on March 07, 2012, 01:58:17 PM
.... I have a 4-week procrastination cushion. ....
Perhaps you'd like to join my Procrastinator's Club. We have a regularly scheduled meeting the third Tuesday of every month. But we usually postpone it until Friday and then just cancel it completely at the last second. Because there's always
next month.
Count me in ... maybe.
Reminds me of Red Green's man's prayer:
I'm a man.
But I can change
If I have to ...
maybe.
Correction:
Count me in ... maybe.
Reminds me of Red Green's man's prayer:
I'm a man.
But I can change
If I have to ...
I guess.
Vulcan Tourist
I have similar set up. Don't put too much stock in availability of internet phone. Had massive power failure couple weeks ago. Came into the office and the old modem was blinking away trying to sync up. Whoops, no cable. Ergo, no internet phone, even though all MY network stuff was working. Had to fall back to that plug-in POTS. IT WORKED.
OTC
I have read many of the questions and responses in this thread and have some comments. I may be way off, but here is my take.
Although these may be very active seniors, I would not get very technical with them. My Mom still tells me she wants to keep the phone call short so she does not run up my phone bill. Something about going through the Depression I guess. At least she doesn't cover the wall outlets to keep the electricity from leaking out.
I would give them a simple diagram of how VOIP works, the pros and cons and compare a couple of services. I have 30 and 40 year old neighbors that still cannot grasp the difference of VOIP and cellphone and WiFi services. Some of these people are pretty internet savy.
At a major computer company I had to adjust an under desk UPS. The secretary, who was somewhat technically inclined, had the computer plugged into the filtered outlets and the electric stapler in the UPS outlets.
I have a young neighbor who has his own ecommerce site. He connects to it from home and when he cannot connect he calls me and says "the website is down". I ask him if he can get to any other websites? He says no. I ask him if his cable TV has any channels working. He says no. I sigh.
Giving people (whether technical or not) too many options may confuse them. To prove this, try walking into a cellphone store and ask what a cellphone will cost you per month. Try to get a single, simple cost.
My friend used to program ESS phone switches, yet it took an extended discussion on how I was able to take a free UK inbound number connected to an OBI and then route a call out GoogleVoice so he could make local US calls when he was in London.
You may overload these people with too much data. If they want lots of info, there are internet sites :-)
If I was trying to save seniors money, I would limit the discussion to a couple charts and real-life examples. Do they have a landline (POTS) and will they keep it for 911? Some cities may allow them a dialtone and 911 calling after stopping service but there are cases where it can be deleted from their line. Do they need to keep their existing number? Most seniors will want that as they still write their friends numbers in the address books in pen.
I see this as an additional service for seniors with them keeping their landline and perhaps changing to a metered service on it.
Thanks Lavarock. Good info.
"I would give them a simple diagram of how VOIP works, the pros and cons and compare a couple of services. ..." I would value your expanded input on these points.
"I see this as an additional service for seniors with them keeping their landline and perhaps changing to a metered service on it." 80%-90% of my audience will fit this description. The remaining 10%-20% can be as geeky as a techi-teenager. I'll be ready to inoffensively deflect their questions and "challenges".
"You may overload these people with too much data. If they want lots of info, there are internet sites :-)"
Yep. I'll have list of: Issue/question -> URL.
If you have more to add, I welcome hearing from you.
I remember growing up on a farm and when the power went out, the phone still usually worked.
I do have a cell phone which may or will probably work during a power outage.
The power outage thing and phones depends on allot of factors, where you live what kind of power loss, where the phone company gets their power, etc.
On the farm, we sometimes could have power and no phone too.
Of course things have changed allot and in some ways not at all.
If power goes out, the provider may still have power. My internet comes in on my phone line so nothing has changed there, but the internet would be down because the modem needs electricity.. easy solution. Provide
your own power with a battery back up (UPS). You have the same odds as with the old technology because you are still using the same company and lines and much of the same technology.
In my city, I have maybe had power outage 3 times in the last ten years. Who did I want to phone? The power company "like all my neighbors".
As far as voip providers, some are more reliable than others which is a related but separate issue.
Tel cos do generally provide good service.
Not sure if loss of phone service is a reason to loose your head though some people seem to think it's the end of the world. I on occasion leave home without my cell phone. I know its insane!
As far as the learning thing goes, nobody can know everything and what you do learn is directly related to effort. Some older people have different priorities, then again some younger people do too.
I know I learn things a little at a time. Also up until recently knew nothing about voip.
Someone asked about provider experiences and someone talked about their experience of vonage over ooma.
The big difference in quality most people have with vonage over other voip services is vonage equipment has built in qos. If you do a proper voip setup, with proper qos, any voip provider should give you identical quality.
When I first started, the qos and bandwidth issues were a challenge for me, however I have since tried multiple voip providers with similar results and and I actually get better quality now than my brother who has vonage.
One extra note on this issue, low latency is required for voip, some locations cannot get the low latency necessary and proximity to servers, connections and all that stuff plays a part.
I started with a magic jack plus and it was good "after conquering my aforementioned issues".
My problem with magic jack was that my calls would drop. Whether this was a firmware issue or company policy, I do not know. They have released a new firmware update that is supposed to help with dropped calls.
Google voice also drops calls, but usually only on very long calls. Quality with them is pretty decent. My latency to their servers could be better. I still use google voice.
Voip buster was also decent, but, I like the freephoneline/google voice option.
Free phoneline has been quite good for me. No dropped calls. Good service, decent long distance prices.
Reliability for service being up is not as good for this service, but has not been an issue yet for me. Also even if they are down, I still have other options with other voip services.
For presentations, demonstrations can be a good way to go.