I wonder if it would be possible to have a thread that explains to new users the pros and cons of enabling or disabling OBiTALK Provisioning. As we all know there are certain people who have been advising users (including new users) to disable OBiTALK Provisioning (under System Management | Auto Provisioning on their device). And as some of you know I feel this is a huge mistake, especially for new users, because you lose the benefit of being able to use the OBiTALK portal to configure your device. I could understand how this was valid advice before Obihai introduced the "OBi Expert Configuration" mode in the portal, but now that it is available and you can change almost every setting on an OBi device from there, I see no benefit whatsoever in disabling OBiTALK Provisioning. Unfortunately, in the past when I have brought this up, the thread tends to degenerate pretty quickly, because honestly there are one or two participants in this forum that I don't care much for and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. But if we could possibly put that aside, for the benefit of new users, I was wondering if anyone would care to make the care for or against OBiTALK provisioning?
My hope would be that if we can get intelligent and non-inflammatory comments from both sides, this thread could be made into a sticky so that a new user could read it and get some idea of what the pro and cons are, and make an informed decision on whether to leave OBiTALK provisioning enabled or to disable it. Surely those who advocate disabling it must have their reasons, so I'd invite them to articulate those reasons here, and those who favor leaving the provisioning enabled could also respond. In that way, if a new user chooses to disable the OBiTALK provisioning or to leave it enabled, they'll be making an informed decision, and not just doing it because someone on the forum told them to do this or that.
This is just a experiment to see if this can be debated in a reasonably civil manner. To that end, I won't say anything more until others have had a chance to make their case. You don't have to write a long treatise; even a couple of explanatory sentences that articulate your reasoning one way or the other would be helpful.
Well one comes to mind. The reliability (up time) of the portal.
Quote from: Ostracus on April 02, 2012, 01:22:32 PM
Well one comes to mind. The reliability (up time) of the portal.
I have had 3 Obi's in service for 15 months. I make many changes and experiment a lot. I always use the portal, and I have never encountered a problem with it. 100% access is always going to go to the device but it isn't like the portal has ever been down for days at a time.
I am sure that once anyone becomes comfortable and familiar with the Obi they will venture away from the portal at some point, if for no other reason just for curiosity. But I do not agree with directing a newbie away from the portal just because you don't like it.
1) Call history limited to the last 10 calls on the portal
2) Speed dial on the unit web page limited to number only (no name field)
3) I find the "red exclamation marks", "Check boxes" and "*" on the portal to be confusing
4) Can not change OBi from 10 to 100 Duplex setting via the portal (to be fair, you can not change it on the unit web page either)
5) Portal has lagged behind the OBi when a new firmware is released
6) Not certain you can modify voice prompts from the portal
Some differences between the two methods that I can think of. I think that the portal is mostly useful for managing a far away OBi. Personally I prefer to configure the unit directly. However I can see how new users would benefit from the preconfigured settings for Google voice and some of the sponsoring SIP providers.
RonR,
The silence is deafening. :D
Sound of silence (http://www.blindmusic.net/viola/sounds/cricket1.wav)
i think this is purely a matter of personal preference based on use case for the device.
by now, we are well aware of advantages and disadvantages of portal vs managing locally.
in my case, even though managing it locally would be just fine, i am still using the portal. this is because of the once in a blue moon scenarios. the other day i had to route calls from certain number when i was away from home. the portal is the best way to do that (unless you want to punch a hole in the home firewall).
so, personally for me while managing it locally would be fine, the portal helps to take care of the unanticipated scenarios.so, for now, i am staying with that option.
I believe its mostly a matter of personal preference.
Benefits for direct unit interface:
1) For testing and development purposes, LAN connections are much faster via unit interface. I don't face any lag when altering settings.
2) I also think it might be a security preference as well. As far as I know, the obiportal has not been hacked but if it ever is, obi users who aren't notified or don't change their password could possibly face the chance of thousands of dollars of unauthorized calls. As obi grows, online attacks against obiportal grows. This could result with slower access to obiportal or hijacked accounts. Also, I bet most users who create passwords for their obi account don't create unique passwords. This could mean that users' emails and other online accounts could become vulnerable.
3) Lower network usage. I assume this since the obi device probably wouldn't need to continuously check its connection with obiportal if auto-prov was disabled.
Benefits for obiportal:
1) Ultra easy to setup gv accounts (I haven't tried other sip accounts). In fact, I usually setup my gv accounts via the obiportal before disabling auto-prov for my little experiments.
Quote from: DocM on April 03, 2012, 05:16:04 PM
As far as I know, the obiportal has not been hacked but if it ever is, obi users who aren't notified or don't change their password could possibly face the chance of thousands of dollars of unauthorized calls. As obi grows, online attacks against obiportal grows. This could result with slower access to obiportal or hijacked accounts. Also, I bet most users who create passwords for their obi account don't create unique passwords. This could mean that users' emails and other online accounts could become vulnerable.
hacking obi portal is not going to be very useful for placing calls.if you are not using obi app, there is no way to make a call out. you can completely restrict access to obi app(softphone number) if that is the case. changing settings on the portal has nothing to do with initiating calls from your device that would cost "thousands of dollars" as your device is sitting behind a "firewall".
also, SP's today provide ways to limit calls like max minutes per day or drop calls after 'x' mins, restrict to certain countries etc.
on security itself: typically, no website stores your passwords directly in a database. your password along with some obi passphrase is used to hash/encrypt data and then is stored. this way even an employee cannot access your password even if they intend to.
Quote from: earthtoobi on April 04, 2012, 08:17:57 AM
hacking obi portal is not going to be very useful for placing calls.if you are not using obi app, there is no way to make a call out. you can completely restrict access to obi app(softphone number) if that is the case. changing settings on the portal has nothing to do with initiating calls from your device that would cost "thousands of dollars" as your device is sitting behind a "firewall".
also, SP's today provide ways to limit calls like max minutes per day or drop calls after 'x' mins, restrict to certain countries etc.
Currently, via OBI expert, I can configure obitalk service to receive calls from any obi number I desire and send calls via voice gateways to any obi number I desire. So, if a hacker did manage to obtain access to obi accounts, that hacker should be able to modify the obitalk service to route calls to, for example, a phone line from their personal obi. The phone line could be used to place premium rate calls, incurring charges on the hijacked obi's user.
Quote from: earthtoobi on April 04, 2012, 08:17:57 AM
on security itself: typically, no website stores your passwords directly in a database. your password along with some obi passphrase is used to hash/encrypt data and then is stored. this way even an employee cannot access your password even if they intend to.
I have very limited knowledge about how website passwords are stored but I assumed it could be decrypted by hackers since hacked sites would commonly ask users to change their password.
Quote from: DocM on April 04, 2012, 12:38:13 PM
Currently, via OBI expert, I can configure obitalk service to receive calls from any obi number I desire and send calls via voice gateways to any obi number I desire. So, if a hacker did manage to obtain access to obi accounts, that hacker should be able to modify the obitalk service to route calls to, for example, a phone line from their personal obi. The phone line could be used to place premium rate calls, incurring charges on the hijacked obi's user.
you are correct. it not only applies for obi number but also numbers configured as part of your SP.
For those of us that use google voice for domestic calling only there is no concern for any type of charge. And with the choices for voip providers that are pretty much "prepaid" there is really no reason to have an open end type of account.
I think the portal has great potential but up until very recently (two or three weeks ago) certain changes I made in the portal were not replicated to the devices. I have 3 OBi's in the portal and they're all affected by it.
The devices live in the US, Canada and the Netherlands and I have setup direct access to them. Every time I push a change out I check if it took on the device. It's a little extra work but worth the effort to keep as much as I can centrally located in the portal.
The portal is definitely convenient for remote configuration, the pre-defined service providers, and the speed dials (with names/descriptions). The speed dials from the portal get pushed to (or pulled from) the OBiON apps. Down side is you can't change speed dial 1 and 99.
DocM -
Quoteon security itself: typically, no website stores your passwords directly in a database. your password along with some obi passphrase is used to hash/encrypt data and then is stored. this way even an employee cannot access your password even if they intend to.
You keep on believing that. I think you'd be surprised if you knew how insecure many sites are.
Quote from: RevKev on April 05, 2012, 05:43:59 PM
The portal is definitely convenient for remote configuration, the pre-defined service providers, and the speed dials (with names/descriptions). The speed dials from the portal get pushed to (or pulled from) the OBiON apps. Down side is you can't change speed dial 1 and 99.
DocM - Quoteon security itself: typically, no website stores your passwords directly in a database. your password along with some obi passphrase is used to hash/encrypt data and then is stored. this way even an employee cannot access your password even if they intend to.
You keep on believing that. I think you'd be surprised if you knew how insecure many sites are.
Lol, either I'm misinterpreting something or you're quoting earthtoobi's quote as my own.
To me it's personal preference. Just because you are a "NEWBIE" to VOIP or the Obi does not mean you are a "NEWBIE" to computers. I use the portal because that is all I need, but I would have no fears of direct configuring.
QuoteLol, either I'm misinterpreting something or you're quoting earthtoobi's quote as my own.
Sorry. You're right, I miss quoted.
I was hoping that the most vocal anti-portal person on this forum might respond and actually give some solid reasons for his dislike of the OBiTALK portal, but no such luck. Instead, it appears he feels it's a better use of his time to go around badmouthing Obihai in other forums on the web.
So here is a list of the reasons one might want to use the OBiTALK portal:
You have the ability to configure or reconfigure your device from a remote location, such as when you are away from home.
You have access to the Service Provider configurations built into the portal, which makes setting up your device to use certain VoIP services (including Google Voice) easy and quick.
You can apply firmware updates easily, even if you don't have access to a phone plugged into the device (if you do have access to the phone, it's probably easier to just dial * * * 6 and do the update that way).
If you are setting up an Obihai device for a friend or family member at a distant location and realize you need to make a configuration change, you can just do it without having to try to talk them through it over the phone and/or set up screen sharing software.
If you have multiple Obihai devices you can set up common speed dial numbers so they work from all your devices.
If you have an issue that requires the assistance of Obihai support, and you provide them with your 9-digit OBiTALK number, they may be better able to determine what is causing your issue, and in rare cases they may even be able to push beta software to your device that fixes the issue. I understand that a few people have a problem with this but I think the vast majority of people who report an issue would just like to see it fixed, and don't care if it takes a firmware upgrade to do it. After all, if you were having a problem with your cable modem, you'd probably be happy if your cable company pushed out new firmware that fixed the problem, well it's the same principle here. But since "no good deed goes unpunished", the fact that this is possible had led one forum member to make all sorts of wild and unproven accusations about a supposed "backdoor" in another forum (notably NOT in this one, where he tries to play a much different role).
Now here are a few reasons you might want to disable your OBi device's access to the portal:
You actually believe the FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) being spread by our resident know-it-all, and are therefore willing to give up the other benefits of the portal strictly on his say-so. Welcome to the cult, the flavored soft drinks are in the back. Please put on this full-length robe and these lovely tennis shoes before you lie down... ::)
You find using the portal inconvenient and are much happier configuring your device directly (yes, I know that in the portal it's a bit of a pain to have to uncheck the boxes first and then submit the page before you can actually enter the changed value, and yes I know it's a bit annoying to actually enter the Expert Configuration mode in the first place, given that you have to click three different buttons before it will let you in. I also realize those are all probably safety precautions to keep people from inadvertently doing bad things that will screw up their Obihai device, but they do seem like a bit of overkill).
You want to maintain separate speed dials on each of your devices, or, you don't like the default speed dials that Obihai assigns (and that there is no way to change from within the portal).
You are a "power user" that wants to get as close to the "bare metal" of your device as possible. On your Linux server you do everything from the command prompt, and you don't need any stinkin' GUI's that just get in your way! ;D
You're part of the "tinfoil hat" crowd that sees a hacker (the bad kind) hiding behind every bush, just waiting to attack your OBi device, despite the fact that there are no documented cases of this ever happening. Maybe I shouldn't characterize all security conscious folks as tinfoil hat wearers, but seriously, the OBi devices have been on the market for over a year, and as far as I know there are ZERO documented cases of anyone breaking into an OBi device. That doesn't stop the FUD spreaders, though (by the way, you might ask if such folks have ever actually owned an Obihai device. On one forum, one of the biggest fear-mongers has never even owned an Obihai device, and is just repeating hearsay that he's heard from — guess who! It all traces back to the same person, who tries to play the role of "resident expert" here, even as he's bashing Obihai in another forum).
And the other valid reasons listed in previous posts in this thread...
The bottom line is it's entirely a matter of personal preference, but I still recommend that new users stick with the portal at least until they have their device configured the way they want it. The reason you haven't seen a thousand posts in this forum along the lines of "how can I configure my OBi device to use Google Voice" is because using the portal for configuration makes it so easy. Granted, there will always be a few people that have issues but that's true of ANY networked device — you can't control what people are using for routers or for their broadband connections. But once you have your device configured and it's working the way you want, then if it makes you happier to disable access to Obihai's servers, that's your choice to make. It's your device, after all.
MichiganTelephone: excellent summary! Fair and balanced... I would add a few things
- If you administer OBi remotely, you don't have to tinker with firewall / port forwarding on you router.
- I have one OBi behind Verizon modem/router where response time is excruciatingly slow, and without disabling pop-up blocker it actually times out
- In most cases it is not either-or. You can specify on OBi portal that device settings take precedence (not sure what benefit it will bring, though, and you will probably get confused very quickly). The only value that I know wipes out device values are individual speed dial settings. Of course, if you have one device (or share speed dials), and if you don't have to have speed dial 1 - you can manage those from OBi as well.
somewhere its mentioned that onne advantage of using the obitalk for making changes is that it still allows updates to be applied---- but wouldnt such updates overwrite any changes I made via the portal--- so i'd have to reapply them anyway?
As long as Auto Provisioning is still enabled on the Obi, any changes you make at the portal using the Expert Configuration, or any changes made on the main Obitalk page, should be transferred to the Obi.
If Auto Provisioning is enabled on the Obi, any change you make manually in the device itself will be overwritten by the configuration held by the Obitalk portal.
If you disable Auto Provisioning on your Obi, only those changes made in the device itself will apply. Any changes made on the Obitalk portal will be held by the portal, but will not be transferred to the device.
I think pfranks is asking about applying firmware updates from OBihai, right? Those are two separate settings - you can decide whether to push firmware update and whether to push Obitalk changes independently.
Sorry if I misunderstood your question.
right---sorry for the confusion
so if i accept firmware updates from Obihai does that then over-ride any changes i have made previously via the obi portal? (because, for example, it sets everything back to default values; meaning i would then have to reapply my locally desired changes)
If you are managing a setting, either from the portal or from the device, a firmware update should not change the action of the setting.
Just as a data point, I would like to repost the text of a comment by ShermanObi that was originally posted another thread (http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=3278.msg21927#msg21927) - everything beyond this paragraph is what he wrote there:
If you disable OBiTALK provisioning or OBiTALK Service you definitely lose functionality. Any changes made to the OBi device should be performed via the OBiTALK portal and OBi Expert Configuration pages (if required).
By keeping OBiTALK Service and OBiTALK provisioning enabled, the following services are available today (more will be available in the future):
Including: Calling to/from your OBi to/from the OBiON for iPhone or Android and OBiApp for PC
- OBi-to-OBi-to-SIP or Google Voice Service Calling (and vice-versa)
- OBiTALK Device Configuration
Including Configuration of SIP and Google Voice Service(s)
Emergency Calling Service Set-Up
Convenient Setting Time-Zone, Attendant PIN, etc.
- OBiTALK Circle of Trust Invites / Acceptance
- Speed Dial Configuration Across All Your OBi Devices & Soft Phone
- Assignment of Trusted Callers' Phone Numbers for Access to the OBi Attendant for Service Bridging
- OBi Expert Cloud Based Configuration
By the way: We are Fixing the Config Import Function
- Direct Support from Obihai via e-mail or Phone
I have something I need to understand how to deal with. I may be missing something which is easy with so much to take in.
How can individual Obi 110 be set up with different speed dial lists with ObiTalk provisioning enabled? I am under the impression that the speed dial lists would be under the control of the portal.
Thanks!
Quote from: MurrayB on May 23, 2012, 10:39:19 AMHow can individual Obi 110 be set up with different speed dial lists with ObiTalk provisioning enabled? I am under the impression that the speed dial lists would be under the control of the portal.
The only way I know of to do that (short of not using the OBiTALK portal for configuration) is to create a separate OBiTALK account for each device. That approach may have drawbacks of its own, particularly if you use the "Circle of Trust" feature, which only works if all devices are on the same account. If you don't use the CoT, then just create a new account for each device. Note you'll have to unregister the device from the existing account, which will wipe all the existing settings, and then register it to the new account, and recreate your settings. But because it's on a separate account, you can configure the speed dials separately.
Quote from: MurrayB on May 23, 2012, 10:39:19 AM
How can individual Obi 110 be set up with different speed dial lists with ObiTalk provisioning enabled? I am under the impression that the speed dial lists would be under the control of the portal.
I don't know how many Obi's and speed dials you are dealing with but another option may be to use a range of speed dial numbers for each Obi device. Speed dial #1 is forced to a soft phone when managed by ObiTalk, so skipping it you could have something like:
Obi#1: speed dial range 2-29
Obi#2: speed dial range 30-59
etc.
All the speed dials would be on all the Obi's but the user(s) of a particular Obi would know that a range applied to them.
Obviously this too has limitations if you have many Obi's and a large number of speed dials. It would keep it all in one ObiTalk portal account if the limitations work for you.
I have mentally reserved speed dial range 91-99 to use with "Single-Stage Dialing Through Any Trunk" documented in another thread. I use speed dial 91 for Obi#1 and 92 for Obi#2. I only have two devices at the moment. Mentally the first "9" equates to the 9 in **9 used to dial Obi numbers and the second digit (1-9) is a particular Obi. This is incidental to your question but is something else to think about when setting up a speed dial plan.
Good Data - food for thought!
Thanks!
I am regretfully turning Obi provisioning OFF on my two units only because I need separate speed dials.
This discussion was very helpful in clarifying the issues. Thanks!
Quote from: piperspace on May 27, 2012, 05:00:26 PM
I am regretfully turning Obi provisioning OFF on my two units only because I need separate speed dials.
This discussion was very helpful in clarifying the issues. Thanks!
Another solution would be to keep several ObiTalk accounts; so separate speed dials are getting pushed to different devices.
I have the same dilemma, and haven't decided yet which way to go ???
I use both but generally use the device itself to configure (I have a 110 and a 202). For my sisters 110, I use the portal. I wish I could see her last 100 calls because it is very hard to look for problems with only 10 calls.
At home my 202 is connected to the modem and a router sits between me and the Obi202. I end up using my dynamic DNS entry to access the device, although I guess I could look up its real WAN ip address.
Old topic, but I have just been hit with this problem.
I have been using 2 110's for about a year with OBiTalk Provisioning turned OFF, as suggested when I first installed the units. Each Unit has unique speed dial requirements, as such, the Portal is unable to fulfill this service requirement (unless new accounts are created). I have since added a third 110 and need to manage it from afar.
Several issues come to mind. Can I keep the two original units disabled and the third unit enabled with OBiTalk Provisioning, and setup the Speed Dials using the portal without any impact to the other units?
Or can I in some manner, return all units to OBiTalk Provisioning enabled, and sync the changes on the units into the Provisioning server without impacting my Speed Dials and such?
For Example, would this work on the UnProvisioned units:
1) First, export my current settings to .xml files, edit them as needed (if needed) to keep my customization.
2) Enable Provisioning on the old units.
3) Import the .xml configs to put my changes back on the device and sync the server.
Or, leave Provisioning OFF on the original units, Provisioning ON for the new, and then use a .xml file to create SpeedDials for the new Provisioned unit? Will the Provision Server overwrite my .xml SpeedDials? I am not sure using the Portal for managing my SpeedDials is very efficient. (Editing an .xml file is easy)
The solution would be for ObiHai to support Speed Dials on a unit by unit basis, instead of account, then I would turn Provisioning ON for all units. And, if needed, edit all the changes for each unit from the Expert Portal (slow, cumbersome) to replace my customization efforts.
In either case, If I wanted to enable provisioning, how can I get the provisioning server in sync with my unprovisioned devices? Is there a server upload sync feature of some sorts?
Oh the web we weave.
If you enable provisioning, your speed dials will be wiped out (talking from first-hand experience :'( ) If you need to keep different speed dials on different units - two choices are to have provisioning off, or to have the units on different Obitalk accounts. At least, I didn't find any other options.
And, if for whatever reason you have to use speed dial 1 or 99, then unprovisioned is your only option
Felix,
I know that Speed dial#1 reserved for the OBiAPP, what is so special about Speed dial#99?
I might be able to live with Speed Dials managed by the portal. Yup, I am using 99, of course. More changes.
But, how can I get my 'off-portal' config into the portal management system and maintain functionality?
I have been reviewing some of my settings, and I can't seem to remember why I have them set the way I do, and everything works the way I want/expect. I would hate to go back to portal management and lose my current functionality.
It would be nice to have a DRC (Design Rule Checker).
There is no way to load an "off-portal" config into the portal. There is a button on the web screen that says "import" but I don't believe Obihai ever got it to work. Anyway, as QBZappy said if you press **5 and register your unit on the portal, a bunch of stuff gets set back to default settings in the Obi and you have to start over. However, for your new unit that you want to manage from afar you should be able to do that just fine. Just be sure and create a new account for it. Be advised that you can't look at call history via the portal and as previously stated, you can't use speed dial slot #1. I have two Obi's that I administer via the portal and one [mine] that I administer locally and it works fine.
I was a fan of the portal (for unknown reasons) until the Callcentric fiasco. I had to reset my Obi202 to factory settings using the phone port. I thought the portal would automatically reconfigure my device using the configuration from the Obi Expert Configuration via provisioning. Not so. Eventually I had to delete my device, add it back and then manually input all my configurations. If I had to do that, what benefit is the portal.
jimates,
Good thing you keep that spreadsheet with your config. :D
Quote from: jimates on November 16, 2012, 10:50:50 AM
I was a fan of the portal (for unknown reasons) until the Callcentric fiasco. I had to reset my Obi202 to factory settings using the phone port. I thought the portal would automatically reconfigure my device using the configuration from the Obi Expert Configuration via provisioning. Not so. Eventually I had to delete my device, add it back and then manually input all my configurations. If I had to do that, what benefit is the portal.
Noted, although the ability to load configuration on the device's web page itself is still there, so the pain isn't quite as bad as starting completely fresh.