OBiTALK Community

General Support => Feature Requests => Topic started by: M105 on March 08, 2015, 08:23:20 am



Title: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: M105 on March 08, 2015, 08:23:20 am
Support rotary pulse dialing which is still part of the analog telephone standards.  This could be made optional in the phone line setup.  Telephone collecting is gaining popularity worldwide and having an ATA other than the Grandstream models which support pulse dialing would be great and likely very easy to implement in firmware.  Users with older pulse dialing alarm systems would also probably appreciate being able to drop their PSTN lines.

Better yet, provide the ability to dial * and # with the dial hold feature of this device. http://www.dialgizmo.com/  Having that built into the Obihai ATA would provide great value to many users of collectable phones since having to add one almost doubles the cost of the Obi200 alone.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: Willy-Bill on March 21, 2015, 03:31:31 am
I second this request.  Perhaps not # and *, as I can use an old phone with a DTMF dialer to accomplish those.  It is a much needed feature.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: SteveInWA on March 21, 2015, 02:24:15 pm
It is a much needed feature.

"Much needed"?!

Only for the 5 OBi owners whose only telephone instrument is one of these.  Seriously, there's more to it than just supporting pulse dialing.  The ancient Western Electric phones with mechanical bell ringers present impedence and power draw problems to the OBi's little integrated circuit-based telephone line interface.  I'd rather OBi continue to direct their engineering resources to current and future requirements.

I have a WE model 302 phone, and, with a Rotatone adapter retrofitted, it still isn't fully compatible with my OBis.  It only works with a brand "G" ATA.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: Willy-Bill on March 21, 2015, 10:23:51 pm
It is a much needed feature.

"Much needed"?!

Only for the 5 OBi owners whose only telephone instrument is one of these.  Seriously, there's more to it than just supporting pulse dialing.  The ancient Western Electric phones with mechanical bell ringers present impedence and power draw problems to the OBi's little integrated circuit-based telephone line interface.  I'd rather OBi continue to direct their engineering resources to current and future requirements.

I have a WE model 302 phone, and even with a Rotatone adapter retrofitted, it still isn't compatible with my OBis.  It only works with a brand "G" ATA.

Oh Bluescat ...

Thankfully, the rotary telephone is not the only telephone instrument I own.  I'm using an ITT 250044 from around 1990.  I have to disagree with Western Electric phones with mechanical bells require too much for the "little" integrated circuit, built into Obihai boxes.  They only require a REN equivalency of 1. To clearify this fact, in order to get that ITT model with a set of bells that only require a REN of 0.5 to ring correctly, I had to implant a set of bells out of an old 500 that I parted out years ago.  It now rings correctly, loudly, and consistently.  All that took place, just before I found the email saying I had a reply.

I can't speak of the 302, as those predated the 500, and the 1500/2500 (based of the 500) is the base of the REN system. 

But to finish, if a 500 is working correctly, the Obihai boxes are more than a match. Save for the dialing.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: SteveInWA on March 21, 2015, 10:35:35 pm
It is a much needed feature.

"Much needed"?!

Only for the 5 OBi owners whose only telephone instrument is one of these.  Seriously, there's more to it than just supporting pulse dialing.  The ancient Western Electric phones with mechanical bell ringers present impedence and power draw problems to the OBi's little integrated circuit-based telephone line interface.  I'd rather OBi continue to direct their engineering resources to current and future requirements.

I have a WE model 302 phone, and even with a Rotatone adapter retrofitted, it still isn't compatible with my OBis.  It only works with a brand "G" ATA.

Oh Bluescat ...

Thankfully, the rotary telephone is not the only telephone instrument I own.  I'm using an ITT 250044 from around 1990.  I have to disagree with Western Electric phones with mechanical bells require too much for the "little" integrated circuit, built into Obihai boxes.  They only require a REN equivalency of 1. To clearify this fact, in order to get that ITT model with a set of bells that only require a REN of 0.5 to ring correctly, I had to implant a set of bells out of an old 500 that I parted out years ago.  It now rings correctly, loudly, and consistently.  All that took place, just before I found the email saying I had a reply.

I can't speak of the 302, as those predated the 500, and the 1500/2500 (based of the 500) is the base of the REN system. 

But to finish, if a 500 is working correctly, the Obihai boxes are more than a match. Save for the dialing.

You're looking at it from the arcane collector's standpoint, not the present-day business standpoint.  There is no ROI for a company to consume any resources in an attempt to support my 1947 WE 302 telephone.  Even you had to retrofit your phone with a ringer out of a 500 model to make it work.  Think of it as a business priority, and you'd see that there is an infinitesimal percent of the potential market that would make a purchase decision on this.  Unless you have the spec sheet for the SLIC used in the OBi, you can't determine whether or not it is compatible with every rotary phone somebody might want to attach, REN or otherwise.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: Willy-Bill on March 21, 2015, 10:52:47 pm
It is a much needed feature.

"Much needed"?!

Only for the 5 OBi owners whose only telephone instrument is one of these.  Seriously, there's more to it than just supporting pulse dialing.  The ancient Western Electric phones with mechanical bell ringers present impedence and power draw problems to the OBi's little integrated circuit-based telephone line interface.  I'd rather OBi continue to direct their engineering resources to current and future requirements.

I have a WE model 302 phone, and even with a Rotatone adapter retrofitted, it still isn't compatible with my OBis.  It only works with a brand "G" ATA.

Oh Bluescat ...

Thankfully, the rotary telephone is not the only telephone instrument I own.  I'm using an ITT 250044 from around 1990.  I have to disagree with Western Electric phones with mechanical bells require too much for the "little" integrated circuit, built into Obihai boxes.  They only require a REN equivalency of 1. To clearify this fact, in order to get that ITT model with a set of bells that only require a REN of 0.5 to ring correctly, I had to implant a set of bells out of an old 500 that I parted out years ago.  It now rings correctly, loudly, and consistently.  All that took place, just before I found the email saying I had a reply.

I can't speak of the 302, as those predated the 500, and the 1500/2500 (based of the 500) is the base of the REN system. 

But to finish, if a 500 is working correctly, the Obihai boxes are more than a match. Save for the dialing.

You're looking at it from the arcane collector's standpoint, not the present-day business standpoint.  There is no ROI for a company to consume any resources in an attempt to support my 1947 WE 302 telephone.  Even you had to retrofit your phone with a ringer out of a 500 model to make it work.  Think of it as a business priority, and you'd see that there is an infinitesimal percent of the potential market that would make a purchase decision on this.  Unless you have the spec sheet for the SLIC used in the OBi, you can't determine whether or not it is compatible with every rotary phone somebody might want to attach, REN or otherwise.

I won't argue the difference from a collector's standpoint, vs a business standpoint.  Nor will I assume that it all has to do with the SLIC chip, if they actually built the consumer grade boxes around that chip.  My argument wasn't for consuming resources to support any and every ancient device.  Rather a few lines of undocumented (or documented, but non-advertised) code.  Not being an advertised, or documented feature/function would allow such a feature/function to be classed as a use-at-your-own-risk set up.  Meaning if you wanted help getting it to work right, you're on your own. No help from support, maybe someone nice like you or me on these forums, but no support.

It's mostly a pipe dream, with no chance of actual success.  It is a much needed feature/function, not just for those arcane collectors, but also for those of us who prefer something simple, old and nostalgic.



Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: giqcass on March 26, 2015, 08:46:22 pm
Can't you use a pulse adapter? 

On a side note you might find this link interesting.  https://www.ckts.info/


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: Lavarock7 on March 27, 2015, 11:03:29 pm
I do not think Obihai should spend time on this.

if you are right and the collector field is so hot, design and build converts from VOIP to rotory and make millions.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: SteveInWA on March 27, 2015, 11:14:37 pm
I do not think Obihai should spend time on this.

if you are right and the collector field is so hot, design and build converts from VOIP to rotory and make millions.

+1 Ha ha ha. And, I have a couple of rotary phones for sale, at $10,000.00 each.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: giqcass on March 28, 2015, 01:59:09 pm
I do not think Obihai should spend time on this.

if you are right and the collector field is so hot, design and build converts from VOIP to rotory and make millions.
I was thinking Kickstater.  Might be enough people there to make a short run (probably not).  If the OP believes it's "much needed" then it's worth a shot. I've seen crazier Kickstarters make it.

 I think the main reason we stopped using the old Bell style phones is all of the people clocked over the head and killed.  I saw lots of that on tv.  You can't bludgeon someone with a modern phone.  Most don't even have a phone cord to strangle someone with(the Obi1032 and 1062 have good strangling cords) and since your kid probably stole your charging cable your out of luck there too.  You can still burn someone real good with a lithium ion battery if you can get them to hold still long enough.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: SteveInWA on March 28, 2015, 07:54:56 pm
I do not think Obihai should spend time on this.

if you are right and the collector field is so hot, design and build converts from VOIP to rotory and make millions.

 I think the main reason we stopped using the old Bell style phones is all of the people clocked over the head and killed.  I saw lots of that on tv.  You can't bludgeon someone with a modern phone.  Most don't even have a phone cord to strangle someone with(the Obi1032 and 1062 have good strangling cords) and since your kid probably stole your charging cable your out of luck there too.  You can still burn someone real good with a lithium ion battery if you can get them to hold still long enough.

 :D ;D :D ;D :D

I needed that laugh!

I should weigh my WE 302.  It's probably several pounds of steel, brass, Tenite and Bakelite, and it has two nice strong cloth-covered and reinforced cords. Not only could you smash somebody over the head with it or strangle them, you could probably hang them, too.  If that phone were sold today, it would be required to have a label on it:  "This phone is not a toy.  Strangulation risk.  Keep away from small children and pets."  Listen to it ring -- file attached.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: RFC3261 on March 28, 2015, 11:56:01 pm
..... If that phone were sold today, it would be required to have a label on it:  "This phone is not a toy.  Strangulation risk.  Keep away from small children and pets." 

Do not forget the Prop 65 warning: "WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm."



Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: Howler on December 16, 2015, 02:17:32 pm
+1


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: Lavarock7 on December 18, 2015, 12:51:38 pm
It is a wonder there is not a parallel to carpel tunnel syndrome for rotary dial phone dialing.

It was reported that in 2006 only 14% of the telephones were rotary and that they were "probably" elderly in rural areas. I don't know if that is the case, but I would guess that most non-collectors who have rotary phones are not technically or financially motivated to buy an Obi and use VOIP. Try dialing a star code with rotary (yes the phone companies support 11xx) but how many other services that accept touchtones like a bank?


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: M105 on February 28, 2016, 11:44:33 am
15,739 reads in the year since I posted the original feature request.  The jokes are entertaining but never the less there is a real interest in this feature.  There are still a lot of devices out there other than antique phones that need pulse support.  If Grandstream can do it Obihai can as well...


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: azrobert on February 28, 2016, 03:49:02 pm
If Grandstream can do it Obihai can as well...

Do you own a Grandstream ATA? If you do, you can use it to interface with the OBi.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: FrankHoward on April 01, 2016, 01:47:03 pm
I would really like my OBi200 to support pulse dialing.

I have my OBi plugged into a really old cool Western Electric 302
or a Stromberg Carlson 1243.  I prefer them in my cool old
house full of retro stuff like my 1938 Zenith shutter dial radio.
They have beautiful rings and I can get my kids to answer them even
when they have turned off the ringers on their cell phones.

http://www.atcaonline.com/
http://www.telephonecollectors.org/index.htm
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/
http://www.oldphoneworks.com/

Just my 2 cents.
Frank Howard
Cincinnati


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: SteveInWA on April 01, 2016, 04:11:36 pm
I would really like my OBi200 to support pulse dialing.

I have my OBi plugged into a really old cool Western Electric 302
or a Stromberg Carlson 1243.  I prefer them in my cool old
house full of retro stuff like my 1938 Zenith shutter dial radio.
They have beautiful rings and I can get my kids to answer them even
when they have turned off the ringers on their cell phones.

http://www.atcaonline.com/
http://www.telephonecollectors.org/index.htm
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/
http://www.oldphoneworks.com/

Just my 2 cents.
Frank Howard
Cincinnati


Doooood:  install a Rotatone inside your old phones and you'll be able to use them with your OBi.  That's exactly what I did with my old WE 302.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: Lavarock7 on April 02, 2016, 12:38:15 am
I am using an old-style crank telephone and wanted to pass along how it works. I am hoping to use an Obi.

The phone is a wooden box that attaches to the wall. It has a crank, connected to a magneto to generate a signal to "Central" (the phone company), and when I crank it, they answer (essentually giving me a live "automated" attendant"). I tell them who I want to speak with and they connect the call. Thus my outbound call routing is quite simple. All calls go out to the the attendant who processes the call by some kind of lookup table.

Inbound calls are a different matter. Everyone in my neighborhood has selective ringing. This is like the new-fangled system the telephone company came up with that lets two parties share a single phone line. My ring is two short and my neighbor is a short and a long ring. I believe that if we needed to, we could change the ring tone.

I have heard of this FAX stuff, but have been unable to get a photo to fit into the mouthpiece of the phone. I don't think I can send pictures directly. What I have resorted to is describing the photo to the party on the other end. For some people I must slow that down considerably and use error correction, especially with my great grandpa.

However, calling the police or fire department works pretty well, but it is not a direct call. I pick up the receiver, crank a few times and when the attendant comes online I ask for the police or fire department. In an emergency, the attendant will redial and relay the message, especially if my phone line goes dead. There is no extra monthly charge for that service!

For directory assistance, well first there are few people in my neighborhood and I have a list of their numbers already. For long distance, not that I know anyone there, I just describe who I want and hang up and await a callback.

Our phone company does not let us own any equipment and we have to lease it from them. The wall-crank phone comes in two versions, a standard one and one with a piece of wood as a shelf that we can write notes on.

Service is pretty good, but come high water, sometimes the phone line goes off until the phone guy can get his truck up on to the bluff to reposition the pole that has fallen into the mud.

As for caller-id, we don't have it specifically. I can call the attendant (I call her "Operator") and she can tell me if someone called me. She appears to have a list of all inbound and outbound calls. Sometimes, if I "press the right buttons" I can get news items and personal opinion about local and worldwide events, but often that information will be inturrupted when someone else makes a call or her boss comes in the room.

Extra personalized service is often given with no extra charge, but sometimes I take a cherry pie with me when I go tothe phone company office to pay my bill.

I am not quite sure how the Obi devices would help me, but they sound great!





Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: SteveInWA on April 02, 2016, 11:48:42 am
Lavarock, congratulations on mastering the Hawaiian art of Talk Story.

+1


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: M105 on January 26, 2017, 12:51:09 pm
This topic is averaging 100,000 views a year.  In fact it is the number 1 viewed topic in feature requests despite very few posts.  Still no interest in pulse dialing capability I guess.  Hello Obi?...


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: Lavarock7 on January 27, 2017, 09:01:52 am
Many people slow down to view accident site too.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: M105 on January 27, 2017, 11:27:49 am
Having 35,000 more views than the next highest topic is no accident.  A better analogy would be people stopping at a new car lot to see if a particular model had the features they want.  All these views are not just from forum members, but more likely Google searches.  The numbers don't lie and Obihai should pay attention.  There is a lot of legacy pulse dial equipment still in service including millions of older alarm systems.  This is an option that could be added with a firmware update without any negative effects.  It should be done.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: SteveInWA on January 27, 2017, 02:13:41 pm
Many people slow down to view accident site too.

That was my exact thought, too.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: SteveInWA on January 27, 2017, 03:05:30 pm
Having 35,000 more views than the next highest topic is no accident.  A better analogy would be people stopping at a new car lot to see if a particular model had the features they want.  All these views are not just from forum members, but more likely Google searches.  The numbers don't lie and Obihai should pay attention.  There is a lot of legacy pulse dial equipment still in service including millions of older alarm systems.  This is an option that could be added with a firmware update without any negative effects.  It should be done.

It's 2017.  Hardly anyone uses rotary dial phones any more, other than a tiny handful of collectors.  Even if the OBi products could support rotary phones, the lack of * and # keys makes them mostly useless or extremely difficult to use in present-day application.

Obihai is running a business here, not some sort of Raspberry Pi DIY hobby thing.  The majority of their sales are not to hobbyists.  There is NO business case for this.

Finally, let's put your assumption to bed, about how easy this would be to implement.  It is not a simple firmware change.  Modern VoIP ATAs are not boxes jammed full of discrete components, nor do the ATA manufacturers like Obiahi "re-invent the wheel" and design their own telephone network interfaces.  There are specialized, very large scale integrated circuits, specifically designed to support the various voltages and signalling standards used internationally.  The ICs include all the circuitry to support DTMF (TouchTone), ring voltage, off-hook voltage, the analog audio interface to the telephone, and the digital interface to the ATA's main microcontroller (SOC).  These chips have to comply with all the various countries' telecom regulations, a certification process that is too much trouble for a small company to replicate.  These subsystems-on-a-chip are called Subscriber Line Interface Circuits, or SLICs.

The SLIC used in the OBi devices does not include the circuitry required to generate and interpret dial pulses.

Attached is a block diagram of the SLIC.

There are already other alternatives for supporting pulse dialing:  buy a Rotatone dial pulse to DTMF converter, or buy a Grandstream ATA.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: M105 on January 27, 2017, 04:12:12 pm
No business case?  I have two neighbors who still keep a pots line because their alarm systems are pulse dial only.  Across the country there are no doubt millions.  Yes, there are kludge devices that can be added on to phones and other telecom equipment but people don't want to spend the money or time having it installed or replacing expensive control panels.
---
As far as the firmware is concerned, I am a programmer who has written my share of hardware support routines.  These chips all monitor the line voltage and can be programmed to respond to voltage pulses in exactly the same way they read a hook flash.  They don't have to generate them, just recognize them.  It isn't rocket science no matter how fancy you want to make it sound or what block diagrams you post.  The phone companies have been doing it with electronics for decades.  If there truly is a reason why the Obi can't do what the GS units do then it would be great if an Obi engineer would come on here and say so.  That would "put it to bed" as you say.

I have a Dial Gizmo and also a couple of Grandstream HT-502 ATA adapters which read pulses and have programmed my Obi to work with them but ... I put a lot of effort into working out the timing and interfacing to make it all work right and that is something the average consumer is not willing or capable of doing.  If it can be done with firmware inside the quite powerful little Obi then all that stuff can be dispensed with.

I find it somewhat interesting that there appears to be opposition to this feature being added.  What difference does it make to users who don't have pulse dial equipment?  It isn't like it will add 10 cents to the cost of the unit or cause any downside in performance.  Heck, Obi could provide an option to just completely turn it off or on.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: SteveInWA on January 27, 2017, 05:40:22 pm
Now, you have moved into the "I reject your reality and substitute my own" realm.  OBi devices use DTMF SLIC chips.  The SLIC used here does not support pulse dialing.  It's not a software issue.  It's not a device driver issue.  It is a hunk of silicon that performs a bunch of very specific tasks autonomously, and you communicate with it via a high-level API.

Alarm systems with POTS interfaces do NOT use pulse dialing.  They use the SIA or Ademco standards, and have done so for at least thirty years.  SIA uses frequency-shift keying (FSK) and Ademco uses DTMF.  POTS lines are becoming extinct.  The alarm industry is converting over to 3G/4G mobile and direct IP connections.  NOBODY is thinking, "gee, we really need to build some new pulse-dialing products."  You are just mangling the facts to suit your reality, in the same manner as "fake news".

If you think developing/engineering/manufacturing/certifying a pulse-dial ATA is that easy, then you have no concept whatsoever of the cost of doing business, and how business people with actual business education make business decisions.

Here you go:  https://youtu.be/LlRVxzHUSNc (https://youtu.be/LlRVxzHUSNc)


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: M105 on January 27, 2017, 08:08:17 pm
Now, you have moved into the "I reject your reality and substitute my own" realm.  OBi devices use DTMF SLIC chips.  The SLIC used here does not support pulse dialing.  It's not a software issue.  It's not a device driver issue.  It is a hunk of silicon that performs a bunch of very specific tasks autonomously, and you communicate with it via a high-level API.

It isn't an autonomous hunk of silicon as you imagine but indeed an interface between the analog phone line and a microprocessor.  The chip actually provides nice interrupts when the line goes on/off hook (all pulse dialing or a hook flash really is).  Yes, it does a lot of other nice things like read/generate tones and voltages with simple commands but the registers must be read, written, and the interrupts handled by the CPU.  Not much different than any other interface chip I wrote code for over the years.  So yes, not only can it be done in software but the SLIC makes it easy.  The truth is Steve you got me interested enough in SLIC chips that I have now read quite a few data sheets on them from different manufacturers and have yet to find one that natively supports pulse signaling and only anecdotal evidence that any ever did.  Those that mention pulse dialing all say that pulse dial decoding is accomplished by reading the state of the hook register and processing the timing in the MPU.  There is even an app note discussing how to handle dial pulse delay through a SLIC.  So that IS the way it is done.  I also discovered that several of the RGs provided by ISPs also support pulse dialing which was interesting and one of the main reasons they do is for customers with old alarm systems.  In my area AT&T's RGs unfortunately don't.

I guess in your alternate reality all pulse dialing equipment is gone despite the fact that I can probably find you a dozen old alarms in my local neighborhood that will ONLY dial that way.  Granted that in my alternate reality I live in an area with a lot of nice old homes with alarms since I am a retired engineer who sold my own business a few years back.

In any event, I never expected such an uproar over a feature suggestion.  I admit that even I am surprised by the obvious interest in the feature as evidenced by views to this thread as it sat idle for months.  Hey, it may not be worth it to Obi and it is no big deal to me, but I still think it could be done without much downside.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: Lavarock7 on January 28, 2017, 08:08:38 am
Views of a thread do not constitute excitement over the possibility of rotary dialed Obis.

As said here before, if you think there is a growing need for rotary dialed calls start your own company and corner the market.

People enjoy reading about trips to Mars but do not line up to actually go.

In my opinion, you are beating a dead horse and the ASPCA will soon step in.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: M105 on January 28, 2017, 08:32:05 am
In my opinion, you are beating a dead horse and the ASPCA will soon step in.

Opinion noted.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: timbergetter on January 30, 2017, 06:15:41 pm

I have a WE model 302 phone, and, with a Rotatone adapter retrofitted, it still isn't fully compatible with my OBis.  It only works with a brand "G" ATA.

In the intervening 2 years have you had any joy making that Rototone compatible with OBi? 


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: MrNortelDigipulse on May 07, 2017, 09:04:41 am
Support rotary pulse dialing which is still part of the analog telephone standards.  This could be made optional in the phone line setup.  Telephone collecting is gaining popularity worldwide and having an ATA other than the Grandstream models which support pulse dialing would be great and likely very easy to implement in firmware.  Users with older pulse dialing alarm systems would also probably appreciate being able to drop their PSTN lines.

Better yet, provide the ability to dial * and # with the dial hold feature of this device. http://www.dialgizmo.com/  Having that built into the Obihai ATA would provide great value to many users of collectable phones since having to add one almost doubles the cost of the Obi200 alone.

I am building such a device.  Rotatone isn't any good.  It's very simple to do and it is digital.  These VOIP ATAs are not carrier grade.  Why use them?  I'm forced to do that now that my own DMS was retired.  In principle, VOIP sucks.  Always did, always will.

Although I have a Nortel Option 11 PBX that performs this function also, it's not practical for most users.

I present a fake dial tone to the user while the ATA is "on hook".
Then I collect the digits dialed allowing for variable speeds (between 8 and 11 pulses) per second
With a break ratio of approx. 60%.  Variance here is allowed also according to US/CAN specs.

Dial tone is withdrawn after the first dial pull.  Digitone signaling may also be used.

It is store and forward with pretranslation, and will honor the 1ESS sextile (*) = 11 rule with intermediate treatment for vertical service codes.  It mimics DMS-100.

So, 1170 will produce a "beep beep", and 1167 will produce a brief stutter in the dial tone before it goes solid again.  It will outpulse these in DTMF as *70 and *67 with 1500 ms pauses (digit stringing).

Once "timeout" occurs, the device will seize the ATA and look for dial tone -- then it will outpulse in DTMF.  You will not hear the DTMF --  the speech path to the ATA is opened after the outpulsing is complete.

The pretranslator will trigger "line" seizure after the 3rd dial pull if "11" follow the first digit (if the first is a 2 - 9) and add an trailing octothorpe (#) to the outpulse if the ATA supports that.

If the first digit dialed is 1, then it will wait for 10 more digits.  If no digit is received after the 8th for 4 seconds, then it outpulses and assumes 1 + 7D (which isn't valid anymore but what the heck).

Any starting digit which is 2 - 9 will timeout 4 seconds after the 7th digit, or immediately after the 10th (for 10 digit locals)

Variable length dialing ...

If the first digit is 0, a 4 second timeout needs to occur (for zero minus calls)
If the first two are 01, a 4 second timeout needs to occur (operator assisted overseas)
If the first three are 011, a 4 second timeout needs to occur (DDD overseas)

This is not a complex digital circuit.  Obi is just lazy.  The cardinal rule is you always support previous equipment.  A switch like DMS 100 supported party lines when very few had them, so it's no excuse.

If dialing DTMF, pressing # invokes timeout.  Rotary can't do this of course.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: M105 on September 04, 2017, 03:22:47 pm
8300 views a month for over 3 years running.  Obi?


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: MrNortelDigipulse on September 12, 2017, 10:38:25 pm
8300 views a month for over 3 years running.  Obi?

Don't hold your breath, but there are several ways to get around this problem.  There's no market for pulse dialing.



Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: kb3pxr on December 27, 2017, 03:17:54 pm

I have a WE model 302 phone, and, with a Rotatone adapter retrofitted, it still isn't fully compatible with my OBis.  It only works with a brand "G" ATA.

In the intervening 2 years have you had any joy making that Rototone compatible with OBi? 

Biggest issues with Rotatone are usually loop current and polarity. Here are two things to try. Change the Max Off Hook Current to 27 or even 30 to fix the loop current issue and swap L1 and L2 for the polarity issue.


Title: Re: Support rotary pulse dialing.
Post by: SteveInWA on December 27, 2017, 05:27:56 pm
As I recall, the Rotatone comes with a diode bridge, making polarity a non-issue.  There is also no need to change the off hook current.

Yes, I recently moved my WE 302 off of the brand G ATA, and onto an OBi 200, and it works fine with the default settings.  Note that it is the only telephone connected to this OBi, so there are no other phones competing for ring power.