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Author Topic: Any considerations required when jumping from 3.0.1 4581 to 3.1.0 5135?  (Read 17541 times)
restamp
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« on: March 23, 2016, 02:16:53 pm »

I am currently running a fairly old firmware load on my OBi202.  It is 4581, which is what was installed when I acquired this little box a little under a year ago.  I generally don't upgrade firmware that is not causing me problems (and especially firmware that has no published release notes), but since I am coming up on the date that my OBi will fall out of warranty, I am considering upgrading while the warranty is still in effect.

First, are there any known problems with the latest load (which I believe is 5135)?  If so, what are they?

From what I have observed here, the base VoIP functionality in these OBis is pretty well wrung out and there are no major fixes in this area.  So, what will I be losing and gaining with such a move?  Will I simply be giving up the potential to have OBiPlus for the potential to have OBiExtras?

OBiHAI has been known to sometimes put "diodes" in some of their firmware loads that make it impossible to flash back to an earlier load.  Can anyone tell me if that is the case here?  If I find a problem with the 5135 load, will I be able to back out to 4581?

What (if anything) will I have to do after upgrading the firmware?  Will I have to re-specify passwords?  Will my auto-provisioning specs change?

Anything else I should be aware of?  I think 4581 is just new enough that I can jump directly to 5135 without going though any intervening steps.  Correct?

And finally, can anyone tell me what the significance of the 3.0.1 and 3.1.0 designators is?

Thanks in advance.
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SteveInWA
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2016, 05:09:21 pm »

The firmware upgrade on the 200 series is benign and doesn't alter any of the device's settings.  I've upgraded five 200 series devices from that level or older, and it didn't cause any issues.  There is no reason at all to downgrade at this point; the current firmware is stable, and hasn't introduced any reported new issues.
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restamp
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 07:06:39 pm »

Thanks, Steve.  The upgrade, as you suggested, was uneventful.  Honestly I've noticed no difference in the way the box handles calls.  None at all.  The OBiPlus Service Status is still present on the System Status page after the upgrade, and I noticed some additional items that were saved as part of the backup, probably having to do with the OBiExtras offering.

I used the "***6" method of upgrading.  It took a few minutes to complete, but after it finally came up, all my original data was intact -- no need to re-enter passwords or any other data.

I did not try to revert back to the earlier load, so I don't know if that would be allowed.

I did note that there is a new section under Auto Provisioning:  LUA Script Update.  Anyone know what it does?  Since I had all the other auto-provisioning commands Disabled, I disabled this one, too.

But chalk this up as another success with a OBiHAI firmware upgrade.  Now, if we could just get them to provide us with some release notes.

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Brisk
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2016, 06:26:33 am »

The OBiPlus Service Status is still present on the System Status page after the upgrade


Meaningless. 5135 killed OBiPLUS.
So, if you had OBiPLUS firmware, its features no longer work.


"OBiPlus is no longer a supported feature on the OBi.
As such, the extra AAs as you describe, are no longer available." -- OBihai Support

Anyone with OBiPLUS firmware may want to think twice before updating to 5135.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 06:28:36 am by Brisk » Logged
RFC3261
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2016, 06:44:29 pm »

The OBiPlus Service Status is still present on the System Status page after the upgrade

Meaningless. 5135 killed OBiPLUS.
So, if you had OBiPLUS firmware, its features no longer work.

Interesting, since I am using an existing OBiPlus (Basic/Lite/Free) subscription just fine with firmware 5135.  It is true that OBiPlus can no longer be added to an account (no longer sold), but the existing features/functions seem to work the same as before (for better or worse)

Now, OBiPlus is likely on life support (I would not be surprised if it will have its plug pulled and no longer be allowed to be renewed at the next cycle), but its not entirely dead yet.
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Brisk
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2016, 02:47:55 pm »



Interesting, since I am using an existing OBiPlus (Basic/Lite/Free) subscription just fine with firmware 5135.  It is true that OBiPlus can no longer be added to an account (no longer sold), but the existing features/functions seem to work the same as before (for better or worse)

Did you update firmware via the Obitalk web portal? I didn't. I also had Obitalk service and provisioning disabled.

And now the extra AAs are gone. The license state has nothing next to OBiPLUS Service Status.
My OBi202 works fine otherwise, but the Obiplus basic firmware in it is simply gone after dialing ***6, 1.
Nothing abnormal happened during the 5135 firmware update. It simply worked, and it effectively killed Obiplus in my OBi202.

Also, the Obiplus link in my Obitalk.com portal is also gone. Before 5135, the link was still there.

If the requirement to continue using Obiplus with updated firmware releases was having an active $10 support subscription with Obihai and using Obitalk.com to update firmware, that would have been nice to know.

The prior firmware updates I did that were not done via the Obitalk.com web portal didn't eliminate my Obiplus license state before.

Given the response from Obihai Support, it seems older Obiplus basic users are no longer able to reinstate Obiplus if it's suddenly eliminated in the ATA.

So either someone at Obihai support is responding with the wrong information, or I should have used the Obitalk.com web portal to update firmware.

Would I be willing to pay $10 to get my extra AAs back? Yes, but Obihai support hasn't made that offer. And given the Obiplus link in my web portal account is gone, it seems I'm out of luck.

I've also considered the possibility that the license expired, with no option of renewing, and that the firmware update for 5135 just happened to be on the same day as my Obiplus basic license expiring. But what are the odds? I don't ever recall seeing an expiry date.

The response from Obihai support seems pretty conclusive to me. If the option to get me to pay $10 existed, I'm sure they would have offered that option.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 03:09:24 pm by Brisk » Logged
SteveInWA
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2016, 03:17:24 pm »

It has nothing to do with paying a fee; it has to do with the OBiPLUS service being discontinued, independent of firmware level.  You've simply updated your box to the currently supported environment.
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Brisk
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2016, 03:21:58 pm »

It has nothing to do with paying a fee; it has to do with the OBiPLUS service being discontinued, independent of firmware level.  You've simply updated your box to the currently supported environment.

I can certainly believe what's happened to me may have nothing to do with a fee.

But I'm confused as to why RFC3261's Obiplus is working with 5135, while mine is simply gone, after updating to 5135? It's not as though Obihai is saying Obiplus shouldn't have been disabled after updating to 5135 either.

Did I need to use the Obitalk portal to update firmware instead to retain Obiplus?

Are you aware of any solution to bring the extra AAs back for me?

It seems pretty trivial to just leave the Obiplus firmware alone in my ATA without disabling or removing it.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 03:28:34 pm by Brisk » Logged
SteveInWA
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Posts: 3934



« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2016, 03:26:39 pm »

It doesn't matter which method you used to update the firmware; the end result is the same.  Obihai, and their portal, knows which firmware level your device has.

My point is, OBiPLUS is apparently going away.  So, the fact that one user still has it, and you don't, is moot.  Perhaps your entitlement was deleted, while RFC3261's entitlement hasn't yet been deleted.  You can contact Obihai directly if you want to find out more on the subject of OBiPLUS.
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Brisk
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2016, 03:38:49 pm »

Obihai, and their portal, knows which firmware level your device has.

If Obitalk service and OBiTalk Provisioning are disabled, then how does ...

Oh. Maybe I should have just downloaded a firmware file manually.

Or not updated at all, which was my original point.

Quote
Perhaps your entitlement was deleted, while RFC3261's entitlement hasn't yet been deleted.

Okay

Quote
You can contact Obihai directly if you want to find out more on the subject of OBiPLUS.

I have. I was basically told what I quoted. I would imagine if there were anything they could do for me, they would have told me.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 03:42:00 pm by Brisk » Logged
RFC3261
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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2016, 08:25:57 am »


I've also considered the possibility that the license expired, with no option of renewing, and that the firmware update for 5135 just happened to be on the same day as my Obiplus basic license expiring. But what are the odds? I don't ever recall seeing an expiry date.
The active subscriptions/expiration dates are under the "Solutions" tab on the dashboard.

As we know, one cannot (now) purchase a new subscription for OBiPlus(*), and if your subscription expires, you are done and out.  So, I would actually imagine that your subscription expired, you updated your firmware (the method likely did not matter), and the reboot forced the resync to your (now) unsubscribed feature(s), and they were removed.  Game over.

Unfortunately once the "good deal" plan expires (whether it is a Verizon Unlimited data plan or OBiPlus), there is no documented way to get it back.

FWIW, my OBiPlus subscription (Basic/"Lite"/free) does not expire until mid-year, and it shows as an active license in the portal, and (as I said) it does currently work with the 5135 firmware.



(*) I have no idea as to whether people (especially those with the commercial subscription(s)) will be able to renew, but I will not be surprised if one cannot.
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Brisk
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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2016, 07:38:54 pm »

  So, I would actually imagine that your subscription expired, you updated your firmware (the method likely did not matter), and the reboot forced the resync to your (now) unsubscribed feature(s), and they were removed.  Game over.

Unfortunately once the "good deal" plan expires (whether it is a Verizon Unlimited data plan or OBiPlus), there is no documented way to get it back.

FWIW, my OBiPlus subscription (Basic/"Lite"/free) does not expire until mid-year, and it shows as an active license in the portal, and (as I said) it does currently work with the 5135 firmware.

I believe you're correct. Thank you.

Those who disable Obitalk service and do not update firmware do not appear to be at risk of losing Obiplus firmware in their ATAs. I know someone or possibly, two users, who haven't updated firmware, and their Obiplus subscription has expired. They also have Obitalk service disabled, and Obiplus is still working for them.

So, I'll rephrase: if your Obiplus subscription has expired according to your Obitalk.com account, updating firmware kills Obiplus. The risk is still updating firmware. I would consider that to be a consideration when updating firmware.

Quote
(*) I have no idea as to whether people (especially those with the commercial subscription(s)) will be able to renew, but I will not be surprised if one cannot.

I was told they can't.
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RFC3261
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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2016, 11:51:11 pm »

So, I'll rephrase: if your Obiplus subscription has expired according to your Obitalk.com account, updating firmware kills Obiplus. The risk is still updating firmware. I would consider that to be a consideration when updating firmware.
Actually, there is a possible ambiguity here.  I am curious as to whether if you rebooted before the firmware update whether the subscription status would have been determined to be invalid at that point (disabling provisioning via the portal does not necessarily prevent subscription status from being verified at major events, and I can easily see OBi wanting to make sure that you cannot subscribe to a service, disabling provisioning, and stop paying but keeping the advanced features forever; I actually thought OBi occasionally performed a callback to "home" to verify features/subscription status from time to time, but I do not know how often that happens, especially if one has disabled the portal provisioning, nor how long the various grace periods may be after you are no longer subscribed).

It is just like applying significant patches to your system.  One should always consider a reboot first, to insure the system is otherwise healthy, before applying major patches and then blame the reboot failures on the patches or upgrade.  Such a conclusion is not actually proven by the facts in evidence (although often the conclusion is right).


In the end, I think everyone agrees that OBiPlus is going, going, ......... going......  So this is all mostly of academic interest at this point.



Quote
Quote
(*) I have no idea as to whether people (especially those with the commercial subscription(s)) will be able to renew, but I will not be surprised if one cannot.
I was told they can't.
That is what I expect, and I have plans in process to use a different solution for my residential IP phones.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 11:57:26 pm by RFC3261 » Logged
Brisk
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« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2016, 04:45:12 am »


Actually, there is a possible ambiguity here.  I am curious as to whether if you rebooted before the firmware update whether the subscription status would have been determined to be invalid at that point

No, I've rebooted numerous times after my Obiplus basic subscription ran out based on what my account states, and the other ATA has been rebooted numerous times as well without updating firmware. These OBi202s were using Obiplus basic though. I have Obitalk service and provisioning disabled. I do remember rebooting before applying the firmware update that killed Obiplus basic. Rebooting didn't kill anything. When I dialed ***6, I was the one phoning home.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 04:48:57 am by Brisk » Logged
RFC3261
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« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2016, 07:53:55 am »

No, I've rebooted numerous times after my Obiplus basic subscription ran out based on what my account states.

Good information.  Thanks.

Of course, that strongly suggests that OBi had a hole in their provisioning process that allowed one to use (at least some) features beyond the expiration date.  Perhaps 5135 fixed that as part of the OBiExtras capability enhancement.  Which I would think is not at all unreasonable from both the seller and the consumer perspective.  When you stop paying/license expires, the capability should be expected to stop.  Where I see the real failure is that OBi has apparently not notified those with OBiPlus subscriptions that the subscription will not be renewable, and that the subscription are scheduled to expire at <date>.

I have had many providers continue service (Cable, POTS, dedicated leased lines) after I ended the contract, but I never expected or planned or used the capabilities after the end of the contract, and I always presumed that at some future point the providers eventually completed the disconnect service (although I do recall a POTS line that still had dial-tone years later when I checked).
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Brisk
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« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2016, 08:29:36 am »

Which I would think is not at all unreasonable from both the seller and the consumer perspective.  When you stop paying/license expires, the capability should be expected to stop.

OBiPLUS Basic was completely free, and the only thing I was using it for was the extra AAs. There is no technical reason why the extra AAs couldn't be left alone and allowed to remain in the customer's ATA. In fact, there's at least one feature request asking for extra AAs, and clearly, that request is possible. There's no server hosting extra audio files. I don't see how retaining that feature costs Obihai anything, since everything is local. Moreover, since that service is free, there's nothing obliging Obihai to provide technical support for that feature, and I honestly fail to see how its removal benefits anyone.


Quote
Where I see the real failure is that OBi has apparently not notified those with OBiPlus subscriptions that the subscription will not be renewable, and that the subscription are scheduled to expire at <date>.

Yes, that would have been nice as well.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 08:56:20 am by Brisk » Logged
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