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Author Topic: Line Phone Configuration?  (Read 8874 times)
Almighty1
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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2018, 03:50:17 pm »

True and that's why until we know what the wiring actually looks like, it will be hard.  With a DSL Splitter, there will be a new dedicated run over a CAT5 cable for the DSL on one of the pairs to handle the DSL circuit itself or actually the easier way to do it would be just to run the telco line from the demarc to the DSL modem using a new cable and just disconnect the house wiring for the voice lines and connect those to the OBI.  It's harder to explain online than it is to do it physically. 
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Pedro675
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« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2018, 04:27:40 pm »

True and that's why until we know what the wiring actually looks like, it will be hard.  With a DSL Splitter, there will be a new dedicated run over a CAT5 cable for the DSL on one of the pairs to handle the DSL circuit itself or actually the easier way to do it would be just to run the telco line from the demarc to the DSL modem using a new cable and just disconnect the house wiring for the voice lines and connect those to the OBI.  It's harder to explain online than it is to do it physically.

I have only Line 1 connected to Telco. The green and red wires connect to my phone jacks and to the blue and white twisted pair from the street. All my internal house wiring is connected to the green/red (line 1) and black/yellow (line 2), but the black/yellow is not connected to service, except for the wires dangling in the service box.

Once I decide to switch to Obi (and cancel telco phone) I would switch the black/yellow to be DSL (in from blue/white) and disconnect the green/red. Then use a Line 1/Line 2 divider at the wall jack. Line 2 (DSL in) into my router and the line out from Obi to the line 1 on the divider, which would feed all line 1 jacks with Obi phone service.

I think that's the way I read it doing research.
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Almighty1
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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2018, 02:35:13 pm »

True and that's why until we know what the wiring actually looks like, it will be hard.  With a DSL Splitter, there will be a new dedicated run over a CAT5 cable for the DSL on one of the pairs to handle the DSL circuit itself or actually the easier way to do it would be just to run the telco line from the demarc to the DSL modem using a new cable and just disconnect the house wiring for the voice lines and connect those to the OBI.  It's harder to explain online than it is to do it physically.

I have only Line 1 connected to Telco. The green and red wires connect to my phone jacks and to the blue and white twisted pair from the street. All my internal house wiring is connected to the green/red (line 1) and black/yellow (line 2), but the black/yellow is not connected to service, except for the wires dangling in the service box.

Once I decide to switch to Obi (and cancel telco phone) I would switch the black/yellow to be DSL (in from blue/white) and disconnect the green/red. Then use a Line 1/Line 2 divider at the wall jack. Line 2 (DSL in) into my router and the line out from Obi to the line 1 on the divider, which would feed all line 1 jacks with Obi phone service.

I think that's the way I read it doing research.

Then that's easier, thought you said you had 2 phone lines and not 1.  Sounds like that's the way to do it. 
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Pedro675
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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2018, 11:24:03 am »

So today I had the Telco technician come by to look at the NID outside the house. He gave me bad news. The wires from the Telco are OK but the in-house wiring is not CAT5, only four single stranded wires, two of which are used for the phone/DSL. I had asked him to come on the (false) premise that I was thinking about putting in a second line. He said that with single single stranded wire there is the good possibility of crosstalk across the wires as these are not twisted pairs. So my plan of using the Line 2 for DSL to the router (switch at box) and Line 1 inside from the Obi adapter to the other phones may not work.

Has anyone had this experience with their Obi and Goggle Voice? This is a two story house with only one cordless phone connected upstairs from a downstairs base. I could run CAT5 wires under the house from the crawl space and rewire the wall jacks I need to use. But not really do I want that work.

Thanks so far for the feedback, but would like some more on this issue.
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drgeoff
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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2018, 12:47:44 pm »

So today I had the Telco technician come by to look at the NID outside the house. He gave me bad news. The wires from the Telco are OK but the in-house wiring is not CAT5, only four single stranded wires, two of which are used for the phone/DSL. I had asked him to come on the (false) premise that I was thinking about putting in a second line. He said that with single single stranded wire there is the good possibility of crosstalk across the wires as these are not twisted pairs. So my plan of using the Line 2 for DSL to the router (switch at box) and Line 1 inside from the Obi adapter to the other phones may not work.

Has anyone had this experience with their Obi and Goggle Voice? This is a two story house with only one cordless phone connected upstairs from a downstairs base. I could run CAT5 wires under the house from the crawl space and rewire the wall jacks I need to use. But not really do I want that work.

Thanks so far for the feedback, but would like some more on this issue.
I think the possibility of crosstalk causing an issue for your intended use is grossly exaggerated.  (Yes it might be a problem if you wanted to use the 4 wires as two voice pairs - but you are not going to do that.)

Voice and DSL can coexist when on the same pair.  So having them on different pairs should not be a problem.  Put DSL splitter filters at every point where you connect a phone or OBi to the voice pair.  (You won't have anything plugged in to the DSL port on those filters.)

You don't need a filter on the DSL pair.  Your modem (or modem-router) can connect directly to it.  But a filter there won't do harm so it if makes you sleep easier .....
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Pedro675
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« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2018, 01:54:31 pm »

From some further research it appears a DSL splitter would work best and possibly give me better speeds - although I'm at only 8 mbs now. I could install the splitter at the NID then run separate wires to the router/modem. After the Obi adapter is installed there should be no cross interference.

Comments?
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drgeoff
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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2018, 02:24:48 pm »

From some further research it appears a DSL splitter would work best and possibly give me better speeds - although I'm at only 8 mbs now. I could install the splitter at the NID then run separate wires to the router/modem. After the Obi adapter is installed there should be no cross interference.

Comments?
My post just above was addressed solely to the situation when you have ceased phone service from the telco and want the PHONE jack on the OBi connected to all phones in the house.

I assume your proposal to put a splitter filter at the NID is for a preliminary phase when you still have phone service from the telco but want the DSL modem and the phones on separate pairs in the house.  Yes, in that case it is preferable to have a splitter at the NID otherwise the DSL path has a stub within the house which can reduce the DSL speed.  Once you do not have the two pairs commoned at the NID that filter is no longer necessary, but is (mostly) harmless. 

There is a small possibility of crosstalk from the DSL signal between the pairs in the house wiring affecting the phones.  That is why I suggest still putting filters at each phone or OBi, even when the phone service is via the OBi.
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Almighty1
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« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2018, 04:56:26 pm »

So today I had the Telco technician come by to look at the NID outside the house. He gave me bad news. The wires from the Telco are OK but the in-house wiring is not CAT5, only four single stranded wires, two of which are used for the phone/DSL. I had asked him to come on the (false) premise that I was thinking about putting in a second line. He said that with single single stranded wire there is the good possibility of crosstalk across the wires as these are not twisted pairs. So my plan of using the Line 2 for DSL to the router (switch at box) and Line 1 inside from the Obi adapter to the other phones may not work.

Has anyone had this experience with their Obi and Goggle Voice? This is a two story house with only one cordless phone connected upstairs from a downstairs base. I could run CAT5 wires under the house from the crawl space and rewire the wall jacks I need to use. But not really do I want that work.

Thanks so far for the feedback, but would like some more on this issue.
I think the possibility of crosstalk causing an issue for your intended use is grossly exaggerated.  (Yes it might be a problem if you wanted to use the 4 wires as two voice pairs - but you are not going to do that.)

Voice and DSL can coexist when on the same pair.  So having them on different pairs should not be a problem.  Put DSL splitter filters at every point where you connect a phone or OBi to the voice pair.  (You won't have anything plugged in to the DSL port on those filters.)

You don't need a filter on the DSL pair.  Your modem (or modem-router) can connect directly to it.  But a filter there won't do harm so it if makes you sleep easier .....

I agree on what was said above. 

From reading the forums here, I thought the OBi cannot connect to a phone line that is still live connected to the telco unless you want the Obi fried.  DSL Splitters and DSL filters are two different animals as one filters all the voice lines at the NID while allowing all frequencies to the data side to the DSL Router/Modem while the other filters at each phone jack.    The later is the non-preferred method as the DSL signal will actually go throughout all the house wiring.  As far as ADSL is concerned, it depends what speed you are paying for as that last 50 ft or so of wiring is not going to make a difference for voice since it maybe CAT3 and it will work as you are not doing the 7,000 ft max for a data signal, this is only a voice signal and will work fine.  I mean if both line 1 and 2 works fine now, it should work the same and not get any worse.  Pots based DSL actually tops out at 6Mbps for AT&T which is ADSL2 DMT.  

So what one really wants to do is really just disconnect that line 1 at the NID and then connect the Obi to the line 1 somewhere and all devices on line 1 will have the dial tone since the Obi requires Internet access which is what the DSL is for so obviously the DSL will be needed for it to work and please do correct me if I'm wrong about the Obi getting fried if connected to a live telephone circuit connected to the telco.

For phone wiring and more info including quality splitters, it's better to read this site:
http://www.homephonewiring.com/
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 05:05:12 pm by Almighty1 » Logged
GPz1100
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« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2018, 08:29:49 pm »

This may have been stated previously.

Why not just connect the dsl to line 2 at the nid.  That is so the dsl signal travels on what is commonly known as line 2 in the 2 pair phone cord (black and yellow).  Use a 2 conductor only cord to connect between the obi and the nearest wall jack to back feed the rest of the house.  This will ensure you don't fry the obi with the dsl signal and isolate the dsl signal from line 1.

You'll next need to either use a converter of some sort or wire your own cable so that one end picks up line 2 at the wall, while the other ends converts it to line 1.



For your dsl modem, end going to the wall jack will have wires going to pin 1 and 4, while at the modem end will have those same wires to pin 2 and 3. Make sure to label the cord accordingly and only use it for the dsl connection.

-------------------

Amazon has this for connecting between the wall jack and obi.

https://www.amazon.com/Home-Mart-Telephone-adapter-plug/dp/B07796RH8Q

Or, since you'll need to do a custom cable, just get a crimper and some rj11 ends.  Maybe something like this . https://www.amazon.com/UbiGear-Crimper-Connector-Network-Crimper315/dp/B008UY5WL0

I've used this tool for many years - https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-Ratchet-Telemaster-Crimp-Tool-for-RJ-11-RJ-45-Modular-Plugs-30-696/100076104 .
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 08:44:34 pm by GPz1100 » Logged
Pedro675
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« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2018, 03:19:25 am »

Thanks for the reply. Yes, that's the way I'll do it. Except now I will put a DSL splitter at the NID to eliminate filters and run a dedicated wire to my router/modem. That will leave the four wires in the house separated from the DSL. I talked to my telco service guy yesterday about a splitter and he said he would install one for free. Conversely I was going to buy one from Amazon for about $30.

This is coming together now. As a followup to earlier post my wife and I have been talking via Goggle Hangouts this week between Florida and  home the quality is great, so I think GV will also be as good. 
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Almighty1
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« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2018, 01:37:26 pm »

Make sure to check what pins your DSL router/modem uses as some uses pins 1 and 4 while others uses pins 2 and 3.  As far as the DSL splitter goes, make sure you get a quality one like the Siecor ones that is a separate external box as it's known that some of the others don't work as well.
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Pedro675
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« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2018, 01:41:52 pm »

Thanks for advice, I'll remember to check the pins. I'm thinking the phone company's splitter will be good quality. The one on Amazon is a "Suttle".
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Almighty1
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« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2018, 07:20:44 am »

It depends who the phone company is and what they buy as they can use anything really.  If you have a SIECOR NID box that accepts modules, you can even have one inside the NID.
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Pedro675
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« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2018, 07:41:11 am »

Yes, the NID is Siecor and there are slots (if that's what they're called) for plug-in connection modules. My NID now only has one. I'll speak with the Telco guy about what they use, he's always been really helpful and upfront.
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Almighty1
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« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2018, 07:16:43 pm »

Sounds like you have the SIECOR box that can do atleast 4 lines.  I can't remember the exact specs for the SIECOR module but I remember the external one was better.  What telco are you using anyways?
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Pedro675
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« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2018, 08:51:44 am »

What telco are you using anyways?

Centurylink, or as they are called around here, Centurystink. Worst telco I've ever had. Service is rotten, all customer calls routed to Philippines where no one knows anything and keeps transferring my call until they cut me off. They used to blame my modem every time the DSL went out, but now they do at least write a service ticket to get it fixed in 3-4 days (WOW). They have the monopoly here for phone and DSL, no cable available, and they always end the call by saying, "Thanks for choosing CenturyLink"; no choosing about it. Luckily I have a direct number to local repair office and a great tech with cell number who keeps me running. CL does not want it done that way but it's working for now and I try not to abuse.

Neighbor (who has no land line just cell) told me he signed up for introductory DSL rate of $35 then after 3 months they raised it to $75. I pay $77+tx ($103) for DSL (8mb/s), phone, LD unlimited and unlimited to Canada. He called them back and they lowered it to $45. That number makes it worth my while to drop the phone and use DSL and GV. His speed is 25 mb/s upload but only .7 mb/s download, but I also have .7 download, not sure why it's the same.   
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Almighty1
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« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2018, 09:59:58 am »

Haha, CenturyLink is basically what used to be known as Qwest (Qworst) and USWest (USWorst) before that.  They purchased Savvis which is a excellent Internet backbone.  Are you actually in the southern US?   I think you mean he has 25Mbps download and 0.7Mbps upload as people would be happy to get 25bps upload. 
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DSMDenny
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« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2018, 09:52:56 pm »

I'm better at wiring than I was in configuring GV so here is an idea:

For the test, simply plug the base unit into the OBI device. Don't worry about wiring at all. Once that works, you have the 5 cordless phones working on the OBI. Rather than do any wiring changes at all, how about buying another cordless phone to add to the 5 you already have. Put that one in the kitchen in place of the current wired phone.

That way, you will need to do no wiring changes other than plugging the cordless base into the OBI.

Yes, you could use an unused pair, e.g. black-yellow to back-feed the voice from the OBI down to the kitchen phone, but why go to that work. You would need to change the kitchen phone to the black-yellow as well as the change in the office that back-feeds the new voice line via OBI.

I have used Centurylink and also a regional cable company. CL is many times more reliable than the cable. Much fewer outages and many, many times less short term stutters. When cable works, it is fantastic. Unless it is having an issue and web pages keep saying not reachable even though speed test is lightning fast. Happens too often with cable, almost never with CL.
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GPz1100
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Posts: 328


« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2018, 10:16:36 pm »

That's a great idea... We did that a while ago when staples had a special on some vtechs.. Bought 2 packages and combined all the handsets to one base station.  Instructions were buried in one of the reviews for this model on amazon. 
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Pedro675
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« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2018, 09:25:46 am »


For the test, simply plug the base unit into the OBI device. Don't worry about wiring at all. Once that works, you have the 5 cordless phones working on the OBI. Rather than do any wiring changes at all, how about buying another cordless phone to add to the 5 you already have. Put that one in the kitchen in place of the current wired phone.

Yes, I was planning a test with existing wiring and cordless phones. My cordless base only supports 5 extensions so the kitchen phone will have to be wired. I can go with more extensions but will need a new base and extensions - not worth it right now.

I found I have Cat5 wire from just inside the NID in the crawl space, I must have done that at some point. It only goes to the office where my DSL and cordless base it, but that will do for now. I'll have to install the CAT5 from the NID to my splitter just inside, then also from the other end up inside the wall to the wall jack. Can't get CAT5 anymore by the foot but I have left over Cat6 that i used to run ethernet from my router to my TV for streaming.

A lot of good ideas coming here to help me. Next step is getting the telco guy to install the DSL switch.
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