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Author Topic: Hook-flash required to answer incoming calls prior to about 3 rings  (Read 2771 times)
Sarnia
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« on: July 11, 2018, 05:49:05 pm »

I tried to rectify this problem by deleting the OBI200 from Obitalk, factory resetting the OBI200 physically using the reset switch, and reconnecting it to Obitalk and reconfiguring it but the problem persists.

The setup is freephoneline.ca (FFL) as SP1 (primary for outbound calls, setup for 911) using the Obitalk configuration wizard and google voice as SP2, also using the configuration wizard. I only otherwise entered Obiexpert to set the outbound caller name on FFL.

The only other thing that hopefully is not noteworthy is that the OBI200 is connected to the house wiring and there are four phones connected to the house wiring.

It seems largely but not 100% consistent that on incoming calls on FFL, if it rings less than about 3 times then one hears nothing on the off-hook phone and the caller continues to hear ringing but if a hook-flash is done on the OBI200 phone then the call gets answered and a conversation can proceed. If the phone rings about 3 times or more then typically one can answer the OBI200 phone and all is fine.

While google voice is configured as SP2, I suspect/hope that it is not implicated with this problem. I have not tried to see if the same problem occurs on incoming calls on google voice.

I doubt that this represents a problem with FFL.

Does anybody have any idea what could be going on and/or how to troubleshoot?

I doubt that the following is important but the OBI200 always obtains the same IP address using DHCP on a router running Gargoyle. UDP ports 10000, 5060, and 5061 are forwarded to the OBI200.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 06:12:32 pm by Sarnia » Logged
drgeoff
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2018, 03:25:28 am »

Your obvious first step is to see what happens when you have a single phone plugged directly into the OBi.
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Sarnia
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2018, 08:22:26 am »

This setup is at a relative's house which is 6 hours drive away, each way. She is living with this issue for now.

I will try with one directly connected phone (bypassing the house wiring) when I am up there in September to see what I learn. Other than that and watching the phone port status on the web page of the Obi200 and trying to enable syslog, I have no idea what I can do.

Any related guidance that anyone can provide to help me in September would be appreciated. For example what level of syslog would possibly show off-hook events?
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Sarnia
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2018, 08:27:57 pm »

I was able to recreate the problem periodically enough (but not always) after two rings on incoming calls even with one particular phone directly connected to the Obi200 using a short phone cable (all of the house wiring bypassed). The phone + Obi200 combination exhibiting this problem is a General Electric Big Button CID Speakerphone. https://www.amazon.com/29369GE1-Button-Desktop-Waiting-Speakerphone/dp/B00079VIFU

While I was hearing ringing on the calling cell phone, on the GE phone's receiver I heard silence plus a sort of clicking/scratching sound every few seconds (probably corresponding with the continued ringing despite being off-hook) for a few iterations during which the Obi200 web interface, showed a Status -> PHONE Port Status of Ringing (with LoopCurrent 19 or 20 mA, VBAT 14 V or 15 V, TipRIngVoltage 5 V or 6V) followed by a State of "On Hook" (while I was still off hook) with the same other parameters (LoopCurrent 19 or 20 mA, VBAT 14 V or 15 V, TipRingVoltage 5 V or 6V). Again, if we let this phone ring for three or more rings, going off-hook consistently results in the call being answered properly.

Another phone for which the problem consistently does not occur when answering shows, when off-hook, LoopCurrent either 19 or 20 mA, VBAT either 13 V or 14 V and TipRingVoltage 4V (while attached to the house wiring, in this case close to the Obi200).

While the phones are all On Hook, the Port Status is On Hook, LoopCurrent 0 mA, VBAT 55 V, TipRingVoltage 46V.

The Obi200 is hardware version 1.4, software version 3.2.2 (Build: 5898EX). There are no optional USB dongles attached. It is Ethernet wired to the router.

The port settings are all default (600 ohm, OnHookTipRingVoltage 46, OffHookCurrentMax 20, etc).

I will be back here at Christmas. What can I do to troubleshoot this problem further or might I have provided enough information now to allow someone to tell me what may be wrong and ideally what to configure to correct it?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 08:35:37 pm by Sarnia » Logged
SteveInWA
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2018, 09:41:42 pm »

Do I understand your post, such that the OBi-attached phone rings normally if you instead use some other phone?  That would prove it's a telephone issue.

Nominal values on my OBi 200 and 202 (note that there will always be a slight variation in the numbers):

Off Hook:  20ma, 17V, 7V
On Hook:  0-2ma, 58V, 45V
Ringing:  0-2ma, 58V, 45V

Also note that the voltages shown here are DC.  During ringing, a higher AC voltage is superimposed on the DC voltage, but the OBi web page won't display it.

The GE big button phone requires an AC/DC adapter (wall wart) plugged in and working.  Without it, there's no telling how much current the phone is drawing when it is ringing (or attempting to ring).  Your symptoms suggest that the phone is the problem.

Of course, the phone could be defective, or the ringer switch could be set to low or off.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 09:45:24 pm by SteveInWA » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2018, 06:44:24 am »

I would remove all existing connections to the 2W FXS port of the OBI ATA. Then connect a a different telephone set to the 2W port in use of the OBI. If you can locate an old Western Electric (WECo) telephone, such as a  500 (Rotary) or 2500DM will make a good base line test unit to help you resolve/determine the incoming ring trouble.

Don't hesitate to use an old style rotary telephone set, such as a WEC0 CV500. All that you are interested in is to determine if the OBI is operating correctly.

At a minimum, you should use single line telephone equipment intended for POTS line service that does not use DC line current from the telephone line to operate any additional features, such as back lighted dial pad, or digital displays.  A WECo 2500DM Telephone set connected to my OBI devices and have no issues.

As a point of reference. In the normal North American telephone network. 20Hz AC ringing is superimposed onto the 2 wire line voltage that originates from a CO switch, or loop carrier FXS channel unit during the two second ringing phase. DC continues to be present on the 2W line during the silent (No ring) period of an incoming call. The DC current is used as supervision to determine if the telephone station is in the idle (On Hook) or answer/busy (Off Hook) state.

Telephone equipment connected to a 2 wire loop start line will detects the presence of DC current flowing on the cable pair as a result of the low resistance short circuit, about 200 OHMS DC, that the telephone station equipment applies to the line when off hook. during the ringing phase, the low resistance short will trip, and stop the ringing circuit.

The continued presence of a low resistant short on the line maintain the telephone line in the off hook state. When the telephone goes On Hook, and low resistant short is removed, the two wire line resets to the idle. All The OBI FXS ports must follow the same electrical sequence of events and conditions just as any North American dial telephone line, since all legacy (Analog) telephone equipment must be compatible with the telephone network to work properly.  Wink
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Sarnia
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2018, 09:45:43 am »

There is definitely an interaction issue between the General Electric Big Button CID Speakerphone and the Obi200. There are no related problems with her other phones and the Obi200. Still, I think that it is premature to blame the GE phone though. That phone worked fine with the Shaw Home Phone VoIP box that she previously had and the Bell line that she had before that.

From what I saw in the Status -> PHONE Port Status menu (frequently refreshed while I recreated the problem with the GE phone attached) as reported below (LoopCurrent 19 or 20 mA, VBAT 14 V or 15 V, TipRIngVoltage 5 V or 6V), I think that the Obi200 should have detected an Off Hook condition. What I find particularly strange though is that after about three rings or more, going Off Hook on that GE phone works fine consistently. I wonder if there is a relationship between the strange behavior and Caller ID coming in around the second ring.

I will be visiting again around Christmas time and would appreciate any feedback from someone on how I can do more in-depth diagnostics on the Obi200 while I recreate the problem. Is there for example a way to enable detailed diagnostics on a particular relevant software subsystem and then enabling Syslog? I think that I need some input from an engineer at Obihai/Polycom/Plantronics as I expect, having been an engineer at high tech product companies myself years ago, detailed diagnostics are probably available but not documented in the standard customer documentation.
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A_Friend
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2018, 11:08:01 am »

Does that phone have an external power supply, or is it entirely driven by the rj11 connection?  If the latter, is there an option for a separate power supply?
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drgeoff
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2018, 11:55:14 am »

Does that phone have an external power supply, or is it entirely driven by the rj11 connection?  If the latter, is there an option for a separate power supply?
GE 29369?

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/252647/Ge-29369ge1.html

Has wall-wart.

Noting that the "manual" is dated 2005 this phone may be more than 10 years old.  A wall-wart that has been powered for that length of time is not above suspicion.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 12:00:50 pm by drgeoff » Logged
SteveInWA
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2018, 04:01:19 pm »

Does that phone have an external power supply, or is it entirely driven by the rj11 connection?  If the latter, is there an option for a separate power supply?

I already explained earlier that this phone requires a wall wart (external power supply).  You are not helping.
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--Steve

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https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!forum/voice
SteveInWA
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2018, 04:03:05 pm »

There is definitely an interaction issue between the General Electric Big Button CID Speakerphone and the Obi200. There are no related problems with her other phones and the Obi200. Still, I think that it is premature to blame the GE phone though. That phone worked fine with the Shaw Home Phone VoIP box that she previously had and the Bell line that she had before that.

From what I saw in the Status -> PHONE Port Status menu (frequently refreshed while I recreated the problem with the GE phone attached) as reported below (LoopCurrent 19 or 20 mA, VBAT 14 V or 15 V, TipRIngVoltage 5 V or 6V), I think that the Obi200 should have detected an Off Hook condition. What I find particularly strange though is that after about three rings or more, going Off Hook on that GE phone works fine consistently. I wonder if there is a relationship between the strange behavior and Caller ID coming in around the second ring.

I will be visiting again around Christmas time and would appreciate any feedback from someone on how I can do more in-depth diagnostics on the Obi200 while I recreate the problem. Is there for example a way to enable detailed diagnostics on a particular relevant software subsystem and then enabling Syslog? I think that I need some input from an engineer at Obihai/Polycom/Plantronics as I expect, having been an engineer at high tech product companies myself years ago, detailed diagnostics are probably available but not documented in the standard customer documentation.

You can't assume that a >10 year old phone is going to work everywhere.  Throw it away and get a new phone.  You have already wasted more time troubleshooting and posting here in this forum, then can be justified by the low cost of a new phone.  For example:  https://www.walmart.com/search?query=big+button+phones&redirect=false 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 04:49:35 pm by SteveInWA » Logged

--Steve

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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2018, 04:18:49 pm »

Or replace the OBI. The trouble is either in (OBI ATA), or out (Telephone set).
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