FAX through Obi202

[TimDan]

The Obi202 lists as a feature "T.38 Real Time Fax over IP".  Just what does that mean?
Do the FAX terminals at both the source and destination have to speak T.38?
Or can a common FAX machine be plugged into the phone line of the Obi202 as if to the telephone network?
Does the FAX machine have to be set to 9,600 baud and its ECM turned OFF, etc.?
Could anyone here who has done any actual FAXing through the Obi202 share their experiences?

*TimDan*

[Stewart]

Neither fax machine needs any special capability and should not require any special settings.

However, to benefit from T.38, the service provider must support it.  At the present time, Google Voice does not.  Callcentric does.  I found this list, but do not know whether it is dependable: http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/VOIP+Service+Providers+T.38

[carl]

The above mentioned list reports Flowroute but their web site does not mention that. Callcentric supports faxing, but they have a disclaimer there ( for a good reason ) everybody should read. I dumped my fax machine almost 3 years ago . Scanning and e-mail do a much better job.

[TimDan]

Neither fax machine needs any special capability and should not require any special settings.

I've come across this about the T.38 protocol:  http://www.soft-switch.org/t38/index.html
It indicates that the end points of the T.38 communication should be capable of T.38 - either as terminals (e.g. T.38 ATAs with analog FAX machines attached) or as T.38 gateways between the IP world and the PSTN.  It seems then, that the ATA in the Obi202 speaks T.38 with the service provider's T.38 gateway at the destination local carrier where the data packets transition from the Internet to the PSTN.  Since that transition point can be on the other side of the world, the VoIP service provider may have little control of whether T.38 can be used for FAXes to, say, China or Pakistan.  Is that right?

However, to benefit from T.38, the service provider must support it.  At the present time, Google Voice does not.  Callcentric does....

CallCentric says:
"Technically we support fax using either the T.38 protocol or transparently with G.711. However, both largely depend on the reliability/stability of your internet connection. An internet connection with regular packet loss, high latency (ping) to our servers, and/or jitter (large variations in the latency) will cause problems for faxing. While we do support it, and it does work - we can't tell you how reliable it will be on your internet connection without you actually trying it."

and:
"And finally the major factor which may determine your experience with faxing will depend on where you are sending the fax. Sometimes some carriers we purchase our termination through will not have networks that are compatible or sufficient for faxing."

This makes FAX-over-IP, even using T.38, an iffy process, and maybe easy within the U.S. but not so reliable overseas.  Has anyone here yet had any experience with Obihai's T.38 FAXing?

*TimDan*

[TimDan]

[.....] I dumped my fax machine almost 3 years ago . Scanning and e-mail do a much better job.

I recently FAXed a PDF(!) directly from my PC through the PC's FAX/Phone modem.  It was the only way to FAX a payment receipt that was on colored paper to my insurance company, since my FAX/copier/printer couldn't handle the colored background and my scanner could.  But many industries still require documents via snail mail or FAX, specifically prohibiting email.  Attorneys and doctors typically do this for security purposes, and my architect neighbor says that many of his overseas clients will accept only FAXes.  FAXing is still here and alive.

*TimDan*

[carl]

.  But many industries still require documents via snail mail or FAX, specifically prohibiting email.  Attorneys and doctors typically do this for security purposes, and my architect neighbor says that many of his overseas clients will accept only FAXes.  FAXing is still here and alive.

*TimDan*

Attorneys and doctors (and many others) do it out of laziness, not for security purposes. I could tell you stories about problems with back and forth faxed illegible contracts and the consequences. Faxing is simply outdated. But I agree with you that there are people who try to force you to use it. Also in some parts of the world with miserable internet faxing remains a viable option.

[jimates]

Last week my auto insurance company needed my signature on a coverage change form. She could fax it to me and I could either fax or mail it back. I told her on did outgoing fax but she could email it to me; she said "oh no, I can't email it to you, I will put it in the mail".

[Felix]

My wife does a lot of faxing... In the last year not once did she use a fax machine. With fax service (we use extremefax, and somebody also mentioned onesuite) she gets faxes into email, and with Acrobat or NitroPDF she adds her comments or signature, or what not and faxes back. And if the document originates with us - there is a "print driver" that allows you to essentially print from Word or Acrobat directly to this internet fax service.

Occasionally she needs to scan document before faxing. We had Voip service earlier (VoicePulse) that didn't support faxing - at least with our fax machine; and we never missed it.

Granted - nobody ever asked her to fax anything on colored paper... but our fax machine (just like yours) wouldn't be able to do it; and I haven't had a fax modem since 1999. Interestingly, some law offices treat secure pdf with higher confidence than signed faxes; but others require "wet signature" without understanding that what they get from their fax machine is as wet, as a picture of a paint can 

[carl]

Interestingly, some law offices treat secure pdf with higher confidence than signed faxes; but others require "wet signature" without understanding that what they get from their fax machine is as wet, as a picture of a paint can 

Not only some law offices are that stupid but even some judges. Somebody sued me frivolously last year and presented in the court a " copy" of a letter which I supposedly wrote which was copied and pasted out of 3 different documents and the judge accepted it! ( Yeah, those elected judges). The case got thrown out anyway, but their suit looked far less frivolous because of that.
Germany now issues new national ID cards suitable for electronic signing. You have to buy and additional card reader ( inexpensive). All contracts, applications and documents which do not require notarizing can be sign that way.   

[JohnBowler]

Docusign say they will support fax out in August:

https://www.docusign.com/support/docusign/releases

A few Docusign account allows you to sign up to five documents a month, which is plenty for me.  I guess they may require a non-free account to support fax-out since it presumably has some small cost to them.

Fax in is a separate issue, sending images over a route designed for voice is fundamentally dumb so far as I am concerned; I always ask for a PDF in email.  (PDF supports the fax data format, which offers good compression for black and white documents, although the loss of information is enormous.)

John Bowler <jbowler@acm.org>