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Author Topic: Google Sets the Date for the End of XMPP with Google Voice  (Read 1276364 times)
SteveInWA
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« Reply #240 on: January 28, 2014, 03:49:01 pm »

When I use Hangouts I can dial a US number and a little pop up says "This call is free".  Google gave me a 10 cents credit when I signed up with them 3 years ago - I guess for International calls.  Is this all going away on May 15th? 

Good gawd, have you read any of the earlier posts in this thread, or have your read any of the hundreds of posts on this topic on the Google Voice forum?

The only thing that has been announced to be shut down is third-party client access to the legacy Google Chat/Talk system.  Chat/Talk uses the XMPP protocol, and Google is terminating access using that protocol.  This means, all third-party clients such as OBi devices, and software apps such as Talkatone, GrooVe IP, Mo+, Voice+, GV Voice, the Simonics gateway, etc, will no longer work by pretending to be computers, logging into CHAT.

Google Voice is a separate product/service from Chat/Talk.  Google Hangouts is a separate service, too.  Calling via Hangouts will still work just as it does today (well, hopefully better than it does today).  So, yes, if you have a computer (Windows, Mac OS, Linux, Chrome OS) logged into Hangouts (or a dozen computers, in every room), you will still be able to place outbound telephone calls at the same rates as today (either free for calls to the USA and Canada, or at Google's per-minute rates for international calls).  If you also have a Google Voice telephone number (issued to you by Google, or ported in), then you will still be able to receive inbound calls via Hangouts.  Finally, Hangouts calling is currently supported on computers and on Apple iOS devices, with Android support to be added soon.

The other services being discussed in this thread are being considered as alternatives for those OBi users whose boxes were logging into Chat via XMPP.  Since that function is going away, the alternative discussed here is to substitute another VoIP calling service, and link that service to GV instead of Chat.
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jonsid
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« Reply #241 on: January 28, 2014, 04:20:47 pm »






The other services being discussed in this thread are being considered as alternatives for those OBi users whose boxes were logging into Chat via XMPP.  Since that function is going away, the alternative discussed here is to substitute another VoIP calling service, and link that service to GV instead of Chat.
[/quote]

I got the OBI so my cordless phones at home could be used to make and receive calls and I didn't have to use my computer to do it.  So why would I want to pay for a VOIP service after May 15 just for that convenience when I could go back to using my computer to do it?   
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SteveInWA
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« Reply #242 on: January 28, 2014, 04:29:05 pm »

Whatever blows your skirt up.  If you are satisfied with using your computer to make and receive calls, then, by all means, enjoy doing just that; it will continue to work just fine.

This thread was for users who DID want to keep using their OBi devices.
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jonsid
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« Reply #243 on: January 28, 2014, 05:06:36 pm »

Whatever blows your skirt up.  If you are satisfied with using your computer to make and receive calls, then, by all means, enjoy doing just that; it will continue to work just fine.

This thread was for users who DID want to keep using their OBi devices.

I'd like to keep using my OBI too, but I can't see going through a bunch of convoluted contortions in order to do it and then pay something besides.
I suspect Google will come out with a piece of hardware to sit on your kitchen counter to replace the phones of today - pre-loaded with Hangouts and able to talk, video and text for no charge and pay for it by streaming ads to the screen when you're not using it so every time you walk by it you'll see a different ad.  All you'll need is a connection to the Internet.
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simpleAnswers
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« Reply #244 on: January 28, 2014, 06:08:29 pm »

I'd like to keep using my OBI too, but I can't see going through a bunch of convoluted contortions in order to do it and then pay something besides.
Totally Agree with you. For some reason, some just don't get it. The Obihai is not the main reason why most users buy Obi devices, most users bought it for ease of use of GV. Plug in a telephone and off you go.
Most users will simply stop using the Obi/GV bridge once XMPP goes away as they wouldnt bother with any paid mix of this or that.

hopefully it is likely that within 6 months of the XMPP shut off, there will be a new piece of hardware or hack that gets things working again.
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crackers8199
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« Reply #245 on: January 28, 2014, 06:21:26 pm »

i'm curious if obi will update the 110 to be able to use the POTS line as a bridge for GV, rather than a SIP service...if that's even possible.  i'd think there would be a huge demand for this, as it's my primary reason for wanting the device for my new home...i want to be able to use the POTS line i purchased with my triple play service, but have my google voice number show as the outbound caller id.
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SteveInWA
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« Reply #246 on: January 28, 2014, 06:36:50 pm »

No, we absolutely, totally, completely, unconditionally, unambiguously get it.  You want to use Google Voice for your home telephone service.  You aren't interested in paying anyone for telephone service, or at least not in paying anyone other than Google.

There are hundreds and hundreds of civil, and not-so-civil posts over on the Google Voice forum about this; it's been discussed and debated ad nauseum.   Facebook, Twitter and Google have created a fantasy that internet-based services are free, and people get mad when they discover that the services are not free, and they are not the customer.  You DO know that you are paying for it today, by letting Google data-mine and sell your online behavior, right?  The "customer" is the advertiser, not you.  That revenue stream assumes that Google or any of their competitors actually CAN get something of value from your online behavior.  They get nothing of monetary value today from OBi / GV users, other than the caller IDs and locations of the numbers, and the contents of transcribed voicemail messages.

Google isn't, and has never been, a telephone company.  They aren't interested in the land line business, advertising-supported, or otherwise.  There's insufficient money in it to be worth the support headaches, and its use is rapidly declining.  The OBi device's use of XMPP to access GV was an unauthorized hack; Google has made a business decision to close that hole, and their stated direction is Hangouts, used within their own Google ecosystem.  Having some little software-powered gizmo, into which you can plug an analog RJ-11 telephone jack, to make and receive phone calls, is a "been there, done that" product called MagicJack.  MJ couldn't make it work with ads; people won't stand around watching ads while they talk on their cordless phone.  It's a nice idea, but it has a low likelihood of happening.

There will be all sorts of hacks and procedures to feed calls indirectly through Google's infrastructure.  If any of these appeal to you, great, enjoy, but don't hold your breath waiting for an elegant, Google-powered solution.
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giqcass
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« Reply #247 on: January 29, 2014, 01:35:19 am »

I suspect Google will come out with a piece of hardware to sit on your kitchen counter to replace the phones of today - pre-loaded with Hangouts and able to talk, video and text for no charge and pay for it by streaming ads to the screen when you're not using it so every time you walk by it you'll see a different ad.  All you'll need is a connection to the Internet.
That device is called a smartphone.
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jonsid
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« Reply #248 on: January 29, 2014, 05:09:14 am »

I suspect Google will come out with a piece of hardware to sit on your kitchen counter to replace the phones of today - pre-loaded with Hangouts and able to talk, video and text for no charge and pay for it by streaming ads to the screen when you're not using it so every time you walk by it you'll see a different ad.  All you'll need is a connection to the Internet.
That device is called a smartphone.

I think they'll call it the Toodlephone.  And when you finish talking you won't say Goodbye, you'll say "Toodle-ooh". 
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mo832
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« Reply #249 on: January 29, 2014, 09:27:53 am »


Totally Agree with you. For some reason, some just don't get it. The Obihai is not the main reason why most users buy Obi devices, most users bought it for ease of use of GV. Plug in a telephone and off you go.
Most users will simply stop using the Obi/GV bridge once XMPP goes away as they wouldnt bother with any paid mix of this or that.

hopefully it is likely that within 6 months of the XMPP shut off, there will be a new piece of hardware or hack that gets things working again.

I am of a similar mind to the above. MOST people (emphasis important) didn't want the Obi per se. MOST people wanted [device that makes phone work over internet]. They didn't care what it was called. The advantage of Obi was that it was a one time hardware purchase and the monthly service was free. Now that you need the hardware AND a service plan, for MOST people, who cares which device you use? The Obi is much more versatile, but that is not what MOST people care about. Now your choices are more similar to different cell phone plans: special vs. standard hardware, cost of hardware, price of plans vs. usage, coverage, customer service, reliability, etc. The Obi was [standard device, one time purch, free ongoing service] and the others like MJ, NetTalk, Ooma, Vonage, etc. were [special device, one time purch, paid monthly service] and those competed based on price, ease of use, cust service, features, etc. With the Obi changes coming soon, they just become another paid service to add to the mix, with a slight incumbent's advantage since the users already own the device. But that is no different than someone who owns a CDMA phone and is looking to switch to GSM for better or cheaper or faster service, but they must switch phones to do it.

I remember when AT&T/Cingular turned off their TDMA system, and since everyone had to buy a new phone anyway, there was no compelling reason to re-sign with ATT based on cost. It had to be other factors like keeping the phone number or who had service in your area.
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giqcass
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« Reply #250 on: January 29, 2014, 04:22:23 pm »

I am of a similar mind to the above. MOST people (emphasis important) didn't want the Obi per se. MOST people wanted [device that makes phone work over internet]. They didn't care what it was called. The advantage of Obi was that it was a one time hardware purchase and the monthly service was free. Now that you need the hardware AND a service plan, for MOST people, who cares which device you use? The Obi is much more versatile, but that is not what MOST people care about. Now your choices are more similar to different cell phone plans: special vs. standard hardware, cost of hardware, price of plans vs. usage, coverage, customer service, reliability, etc. The Obi was [standard device, one time purch, free ongoing service] and the others like MJ, NetTalk, Ooma, Vonage, etc. were [special device, one time purch, paid monthly service] and those competed based on price, ease of use, cust service, features, etc. With the Obi changes coming soon, they just become another paid service to add to the mix, with a slight incumbent's advantage since the users already own the device. But that is no different than someone who owns a CDMA phone and is looking to switch to GSM for better or cheaper or faster service, but they must switch phones to do it.

I remember when AT&T/Cingular turned off their TDMA system, and since everyone had to buy a new phone anyway, there was no compelling reason to re-sign with ATT based on cost. It had to be other factors like keeping the phone number or who had service in your area.

If we are to follow your analogy the Obi is a high end unlocked smartphone that works with 99% of the services available.  The only services the Obi does not work with are the few that locked down there services. The fact that the Obi was "unlocked" was a large part of why I bought it.  Any reasonable person had to know that the free ride would not last forever. 
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mo832
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« Reply #251 on: January 29, 2014, 05:31:21 pm »

I am not complaining. I am only stating a firm belief (my own) that the mainstream Obi buyer/user (the "MOST" that I referred to above) simply wanted a plug-n-play solution that worked with what was at that time a free service plan. All the neat-o features were secondary and possibly not even known to those people. Now that the service will be paid, the comparison to other services/devices becomes more cloudy.

I like your comparison to the unlocked smart phone. To extend that analogy, imagine a special iphone with 100% functionality that was $79 and you could not buy it used (or it would cripple itself), and it would ONLY work with a new cell service that was free unlimited, with the catch being that you had to log at least 5 minutes per day on a special app installed on the phone that would show you ads. Anyone buying that phone would be happy with all the features it allowed, but the real reason they buy it is for the plan and overall package. If that deal ever ended, they would be looking at any other phone on the market and trying to get the best package they could find, not looking for another identical iPhone that was unlocked. Of course, if you were ALREADY an Apple fanboy and decided to sign up for the deal bc it would not alter your normal routine, you may decide to resume with the iPhone after the deal ends. But you would be in the minority in this hypothetical scenario.

Most people are not hacker geeks. And I would guess most who bought their Obi off of Amazon based on the GV marketing angle were average Joe's. Like the AOL crowd in 1997-2001 who thought they were on the "internet".
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lhm.
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« Reply #252 on: January 29, 2014, 07:18:51 pm »

"Most people are not hacker geeks. And I would guess most who bought their Obi off of Amazon based on the GV marketing angle were average Joe's. Like the AOL crowd in 1997-2001 who thought they were on the "internet".

An excellent analogy.  Grin
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MikeHObi
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« Reply #253 on: January 30, 2014, 07:49:40 am »

Most people are not hacker geeks. And I would guess most who bought their Obi off of Amazon based on the GV marketing angle were average Joe's. Like the AOL crowd in 1997-2001 who thought they were on the "internet".

I don't know if you noticed, but hooking the Obi up to Google voice actually turned out to be somewhat challenging and darn near difficult for those insufficiently geeky.  So I tend to believe that while a number of "normal" or norms may have purchased the obi, my guess is that only a small percentage of them are actually using it any longer.  The price was low enough that if it didn't work, you wouldn't die going with something else.  Vonage and Ooma get their customers from somewhere.

Anyone that is using their Obi with Google voice today as a land line replacement (i.e. they figured out how to get 911 service) should have no problems switching to a more normal voip provider if they want to.  I think Obihai could have a good win if they can sign up a provider network that makes it super easy and still beats the costs and features of Vonage and Ooma.
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jonsid
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« Reply #254 on: January 30, 2014, 11:13:27 am »

contents of transcribed voicemail messages.

 MJ couldn't make it work with ads; people won't stand around watching ads while they talk on their cordless phone.  It's a nice idea, but it has a low likelihood of happening.

They said nobody would go to the movies where people were actually speaking on screen either.
 I have to watch an ad about every five minutes when I'm watching the news on my OTA TV.  I can't turn off the TV and then turn it back on when the ad is over because I don't know when that will be.  I can mute the sound, which is what I do.
I got satellite TV thinking that since I was paying for programming there won't be any ads. Wrong! I'm finally out of that! 
Now I can't even go to a movie theater without being forced to watch ads.
So if somebody (Google) comes out with a device to replace my home phone, gives me free phone service in exchange for ads that might steam across it I'd probably get it.  I'm sure they'd come with inventive ways to keep me from blocking the ads.
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MikeHObi
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« Reply #255 on: January 30, 2014, 11:52:30 am »

I got satellite TV thinking that since I was paying for programming there won't be any ads. Wrong! I'm finally out of that! 

Actually, they finally came up with something that kind a works.  With DVR devices from your cable company or DirecTV or Dish Network you can record the shows you like.  Then when you watch them you can skip through the commercials 30 seconds at a time by pressing a button on your remote.

Dish recently added a technology that automatically removes the commercials off the Fox, NBC, CBS, ABC channels during primetime programming if you tell the receiver to remove them.  Then you can watch those shows the next day and don't even need to press the button on the remote to skip them.  As you might expect, they are being sued by the broadcasters.
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SillyConVal
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« Reply #256 on: February 14, 2014, 08:50:46 am »

    On the Obitalk Dashboard page, when you click on the gear-wheel icon under the Action column for your Obi device, in the "Configure Voice Service Providers (SP)" section, there is now a "Anveo Setup" button. If you click on that button, you will see what Obihai is recommending as a replacement for the Google Voice SIP: a $3.33/month or a $7/month service from Anveo.
    I have been using Google Voice for my SP1 and Anveo for my SP2. Anveo adds Caller ID with Name (CNAM) and E911 service. Currently I pay only $1/month to Anveo for an Anveo number to which my inbound calls are forwarded to Anveo from Google Voice plus $0.80/month for E911 plus $0.009/inbound call for CNAM. All my outbound calls, handled through Google Voice are free, and Anveo, who considers my inbound calls to be outbound calls since they are forwarding them to my Obi202 from Google Voice, allows me 40 free minutes/day for my inbound calls.
    I don't know whether this pricing structure at Anveo will still be available after the cut-off of XMPP at Google Voice, but it certainly compares favorably with what Anveo is offering through the Anveo Signup Button, namely 8 free outbound minutes/day and no CNAM with the $3.33/month plan and 18 free outbound minutes/day with the $7/month plan.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 09:00:55 am by SillyConVal » Logged
MikeHObi
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« Reply #257 on: February 14, 2014, 04:10:38 pm »

   On the Obitalk Dashboard page, when you click on the gear-wheel icon under the Action column for your Obi device, in the "Configure Voice Service Providers (SP)" section, there is now a "Anveo Setup" button. If you click on that button, you will see what Obihai is recommending as a replacement for the Google Voice SIP: a $3.33/month or a $7/month service from Anveo.
    I have been using Google Voice for my SP1 and Anveo for my SP2. Anveo adds Caller ID with Name (CNAM) and E911 service. Currently I pay only $1/month to Anveo for an Anveo number to which my inbound calls are forwarded to Anveo from Google Voice plus $0.80/month for E911 plus $0.009/inbound call for CNAM. All my outbound calls,

Are you sure that you are not paying $2/month for that phone number from Anveo?

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Obi202 user & Obi100 using Anveo and Callcentric.
SillyConVal
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« Reply #258 on: February 14, 2014, 05:50:41 pm »

   On the Obitalk Dashboard page, when you click on the gear-wheel icon under the Action column for your Obi device, in the "Configure Voice Service Providers (SP)" section, there is now a "Anveo Setup" button. If you click on that button, you will see what Obihai is recommending as a replacement for the Google Voice SIP: a $3.33/month or a $7/month service from Anveo.
    I have been using Google Voice for my SP1 and Anveo for my SP2. Anveo adds Caller ID with Name (CNAM) and E911 service. Currently I pay only $1/month to Anveo for an Anveo number to which my inbound calls are forwarded to Anveo from Google Voice plus $0.80/month for E911 plus $0.009/inbound call for CNAM. All my outbound calls,

Are you sure that you are not paying $2/month for that phone number from Anveo?



    Here, with my phone number deleted, is a quote from an email that I received very recently from Anveo: "This email confirms that your subscription to (# deleted) phone number was automatically extended for 1 month. The amount of $1 was deducted from your account to complete this transaction."
    I am on the "Free Plan", not the "Starter Plan". However, when I check Anveo's website now, I see that the "Personal Unlimited" phone numbers do cost $2/month. Perhaps they have just recently increased their price. Actually the only thing that I know for sure is that I am currently paying only $1/month for the phone number.
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FRUGALFREAK
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« Reply #259 on: February 17, 2014, 10:41:50 pm »

I am not complaining. I am only stating a firm belief (my own) that the mainstream Obi buyer/user (the "MOST" that I referred to above) simply wanted a plug-n-play solution that worked with what was at that time a free service plan. All the neat-o features were secondary and possibly not even known to those people. Now that the service will be paid, the comparison to other services/devices becomes more cloudy.

I like your comparison to the unlocked smart phone. To extend that analogy, imagine a special iphone with 100% functionality that was $79 and you could not buy it used (or it would cripple itself), and it would ONLY work with a new cell service that was free unlimited, with the catch being that you had to log at least 5 minutes per day on a special app installed on the phone that would show you ads. Anyone buying that phone would be happy with all the features it allowed, but the real reason they buy it is for the plan and overall package. If that deal ever ended, they would be looking at any other phone on the market and trying to get the best package they could find, not looking for another identical iPhone that was unlocked. Of course, if you were ALREADY an Apple fanboy and decided to sign up for the deal bc it would not alter your normal routine, you may decide to resume with the iPhone after the deal ends. But you would be in the minority in this hypothetical scenario.

Most people are not hacker geeks. And I would guess most who bought their Obi off of Amazon based on the GV marketing angle were average Joe's. Like the AOL crowd in 1997-2001 who thought they were on the "internet".

You are right on the money...Well you know what I mean, Your comment fit 85% of the user base perfectly.
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