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Google Sets the Date for the End of XMPP with Google Voice

Started by AntonS, October 31, 2013, 05:04:03 PM

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gderf

You'll have to shop around among the many services that sell DIDs.

There are various plans available.

Some charge monthly for the number but include no call time and charge by the minute.

Others charge for the number monthly and include a block of minutes, but then charge by the minute for overages.

And some charge for the number monthly and include unlimited minutes.

Although the free Callcentric and IPKall DIDs are reported to have some reliability problems with forwarded GV calls, there is no guarantee that a paid for DID will be immune to these problems.
Help me OBiHai PhoneOBi. You're my only hope.

dmd1

Anveo's Personal Unlimited charges $2/month for a number with free incoming calls. I just hate to give up GV number completely but I may have to if forwarding to new number is not reliable.

SteveInWA

You don't have to give up your GV number.  It's just a matter of "you get what you pay for".  Most of the recent problems forwarding GV numbers to VoIP DIDs are with the free DIDs from Callcentric's CLEC, Telengy, some DIDs from IPKall, and some low-cost DIDs from Anveo.

Paid DIDs from Callcentric that are not on their "Telengy" CLEC work fine.  I don't think anyone has had a problem with DIDs from voip.ms, and there are lots of other carriers from which to select.

MikeHObi

Quote from: SteveInWA on December 29, 2013, 08:33:16 PM
You don't have to give up your GV number.  It's just a matter of "you get what you pay for".  Most of the recent problems forwarding GV numbers to VoIP DIDs are with the free DIDs from Callcentric's CLEC, Telengy, some DIDs from IPKall, and some low-cost DIDs from Anveo.

Paid DIDs from Callcentric that are not on their "Telengy" CLEC work fine.  I don't think anyone has had a problem with DIDs from voip.ms, and there are lots of other carriers from which to select.

I believe the point is for some that if there can be a problem with Google and Telengy, then why can't there be a problem with some other CLEC?  The only real problem is that Google is not actively working to resolve the problem with Telengy.  From outside appearances it seems they don't care.  And if they don't care about that problem, then it is very likely they won't care when some other problem develops.  So in the end, for many it may simply be time to cut google voice loose.

I know that I'll keep the number.  But depending on what happens on the "end" date I may start giving out a new number to family and friends.  Easier porting today is reducing the value of a GV number.  Google's performance with their service is reducing the value proposition even further.
Obi202 user & Obi100 using Anveo and Callcentric.

carl

Quote from: dmd1 on December 29, 2013, 11:06:32 AM
Anveo's Personal Unlimited charges $2/month for a number with free incoming calls. I just hate to give up GV number completely but I may have to if forwarding to new number is not reliable.
Just port it to Anveo- or even cheaper, To Localphone. Do not forget that on the cheap plans with Anveo you may have to pay for customer service.

giqcass

Quote from: carl on December 30, 2013, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: dmd1 on December 29, 2013, 11:06:32 AM
Anveo's Personal Unlimited charges $2/month for a number with free incoming calls. I just hate to give up GV number completely but I may have to if forwarding to new number is not reliable.
Just port it to Anveo- or even cheaper, To Localphone. Do not forget that on the cheap plans with Anveo you may have to pay for customer service.
Men don't need Customer service.  They just need someone to yell at when something breaks. lol
Long live our new ObiLords!

dmd1

Localphone does not offer 911 services so my plan is to use them for outgoing calls and Anveo for free incoming calls, with Personal Unlimited number, plus 911.


erkme73

I'm really surprised that Google is doing this.  As I see it, if the service is free, YOU are the product.  And in that sense, all Google users are the commodity - or their data is.

Every single call made to or from your Google number (whether through GV, the OBI, your PC, or Hangouts) goes through their servers.  The call information, and very likely the content of the call (transcribed automatically, remember?) get vacuumed up by Google.  Imagine having access to the contents of millions of phone calls (NSA wet dreams, I know) - but then being able to commercialize that content.   As I see it, it's how Google justified keeping Voice going for free.

If you're going to go through the trouble of setting up a DID, or picking one of the upcoming ITSP OBI partners, then why on earth would you not port the number away from Google?   Keeping your number with GV will continue to provide them with a record (and content) of every incoming call - and they're providing zero service for it.  Sorry, but Google has become Apple.

I've already had heartburn over the NSA revelations (and Google's complicity) - so the last thing I want to do is have 100% of all of my communications go through a single company...

I'm going to wait to learn more about the partnerships.  If it turns out these companies offer simu-ring, I'll port.  And while I'm at it, I'll kill my Gmail (and cancer-like Google+ profile) as well.   As it is, I use an outside host for my email address - and only use Google as a collection point.

Hate to say it, but Google's "do no evil" days are over.  Now, what to do about my Android phone... Dangit... They have me by the short hairs.

DrJay

"I'm really surprised that Google is doing this."

Not sure what the "this" is that you're referring to. Google Voice was never designed to work with an ATA. That OBiHAI used the chat client protocol to leverage the Google Voice service was fortunate for users but not something that was intended or strategic for Google. Google is discontinuing the XMPP protocol support because they're merging the Voice, Talk and Hangouts products into one integrated solution.

Google isn't abandoning XMPP to keep people from using an OBiHAI device for free phone service. They're doing it to improve their own product offering. Being angry about this is like being angry at a cable operator because they went from analog to digital service so you can't use your bootleg analog converter box anymore.

Google and OBiHAI never had any sort of contract or partnership. Google has never had an open API to permit interoperability between Google Voice and ATA devices. It's not part of their business model. This isn't a divorce; there was never a marriage. The parties weren't even going steady.

I didn't wait until May. I signed up for a Callcentric account, set it up, it works perfectly and none of my friends have any idea that I've changed my dial tone provider. Google Voice works exactly the same as before and my Callcentric bills are $3-4 per month with absolutely no change in my calling behavior. I can afford that.

mo832

Actually, what I'm surprised at is that Obihai is not trying (from what I can tell) to modify their device so that it will work with the new google setup. I don't know too much about the technical aspects, but it seems like it could be done.

Even if you had to buy a new version of the hardware device, it would still be attractive.

gderf

I have a feeling that if OBi were to re-engineer their hardware to work with GV post May 15, 2014 Google would sue them, figure out how to cripple the fix or both.
Help me OBiHai PhoneOBi. You're my only hope.

mo832

If what you say is true, then that would seem to nullify most of what DrJay wrote above. That implies that Google actually *is* actively seeking to thwart any efforts to use the service seamlessly with an external device. I have no idea what they really think but that is why we all are speculating.

Ostracus

Quote from: gderf on January 01, 2014, 08:30:23 PM
I have a feeling that if OBi were to re-engineer their hardware to work with GV post May 15, 2014 Google would sue them, figure out how to cripple the fix or both.

Then Google would have to do the same to other companies that said they'll do the same.

giqcass

Quote from: gderf on January 01, 2014, 08:30:23 PM
I have a feeling that if OBi were to re-engineer their hardware to work with GV post May 15, 2014 Google would sue them, figure out how to cripple the fix or both.
Why hasn't Google sued Sipsorcery?  They have the longest running working solution.  It will continue to work after XMPP is cut off.  It's all about HOW things are done.  If you include a PSTN termination point in the process Google does not care.  ObiHai could make it work and stay on Googles good side if they followed the Sipsorcery model.
Long live our new ObiLords!

SteveInWA

Quote from: gderf on January 01, 2014, 08:30:23 PM
I have a feeling that if OBi were to re-engineer their hardware to work with GV post May 15, 2014 Google would sue them, figure out how to cripple the fix or both.

These new posts remind me of the Glenn Close death scene in "Fatal Attraction".  Like DrJay said, there never WAS any sort of partnership or legal agreement.  XMPP support is going to end on 5/15, and that's all there is to it...no cat-and-mouse or whack-a-mole games, and no lawsuits.  Now, one post fantasizing about a lawsuit spawns more speculation and thrashing.  Work through your stages of grieving and get on with it, just like Obihai is doing:

Take a look at Obihai's new blog post, referenced above.  They're moving on with a positive approach to offering alternatives.

drgeoff

I suspect that, like most business decisions, the $$$$ is a big factor.

For Google, anyone using their service but not looking at a screen, isn't a potential revenue source (via advertising).
(There is a parallel with standalone internet radios.  More and more stations can only be heard through a web browser.)


For Obihai, apart from Obiplus, their current business model for the end-user market is just the one-off sale of the hardware device.  But with the $40 a year service some part of that, even if only a few $ per year, will come to Obihai year in year out with little if any extra effort on their part.

sdb-

Quote from: dmd1 on December 29, 2013, 10:25:57 AM...get a paid DID for incoming calls so I can forward my GV number to this new number. Is this a good assumption? Other than paying for the number do I still get free incoming calls this way? Companies such as Callcentric and Anveo charge incoming calls according to their websites.

For outgoing calls, Localphone has the best rate so it's my choice.

It seems like a reasonable assumption, but there is no guarantee.

Anveo used to offer 40 minutes per month (or was it per day?) with their cheap DID, not sure if they still do. I have a 'personal unlimited' with them, which includes unlimited incoming.

Localphone seems to indicate that incoming calls are free with their DID.  Their website is not clear on the cost or ability of in-porting numbers.

I am currently using Anveo for incoming + E911 and localphone for outgoing. Sure beats my old CenturyLink landline. If I find I am fairly consistently using a significant amount of outgoing minutes I will subscribe to a plan at localphone to reduce my per-minute cost.

mo832

Quote from: giqcass on January 01, 2014, 11:25:37 PM
Quote from: gderf on January 01, 2014, 08:30:23 PM
I have a feeling that if OBi were to re-engineer their hardware to work with GV post May 15, 2014 Google would sue them, figure out how to cripple the fix or both.
Why hasn't Google sued Sipsorcery?  They have the longest running working solution.  It will continue to work after XMPP is cut off.  It's all about HOW things are done.  If you include a PSTN termination point in the process Google does not care.  ObiHai could make it work and stay on Googles good side if they followed the Sipsorcery model.

What he said. :)

I still feel like obi could create a solution if they wanted to, that would mimic as close as possible the way the system works today. Again, if it involved a new piece of hardware, or even an additional charge for a firmware modification, it would still be attractive. Just so long as we could escape the additional complications of going to a new registration with another provider and also having to figure metered service and separate incoming/outgoing etc. All that complexity makes it unappealing for many people. What Obi had going for it was the out-of-box simplicity for the standard user.

Having said that, can someone explain how Sipsorcery works? If they have "the longest running working solution", I would like to investigate that. Is it a genuine alternative to Obi /GV after May 15 ?

dmd1



It seems like a reasonable assumption, but there is no guarantee.

Anveo used to offer 40 minutes per month (or was it per day?) with their cheap DID, not sure if they still do. I have a 'personal unlimited' with them, which includes unlimited incoming.

Localphone seems to indicate that incoming calls are free with their DID.  Their website is not clear on the cost or ability of in-porting numbers.

I am currently using Anveo for incoming + E911 and localphone for outgoing. Sure beats my old CenturyLink landline. If I find I am fairly consistently using a significant amount of outgoing minutes I will subscribe to a plan at localphone to reduce my per-minute cost.
[/quote]

This is what I plan on doing in the near future. Do you forward your GV number to Anveo or let incoming calls go straight to Anveo number? How is call quality?

Thanks.