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optimizing thrifty setups (replacing Google with Localphone, others)

Started by DieterProvisionen, November 22, 2013, 03:52:35 PM

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DieterProvisionen

Hello everyone,
I am a longtime lurker that will have to re-adjust after the recent GV announcement.  Not just my device but also those of relatives that I convinced to try the google/obi combination.

I'm hoping to get advice for two different setup possibilities, both involving Localphone for outgoing service but with different providers for inbound calls:  A free option, and a paid option for e911 service and CNAM.

Of course, many users are already aware that these are possibly the cheapest options for what they provide.  That might lead to requests for information about these combinations, so maybe this thread can serve as a resource.  I understand little about DigitMaps and Obi configuration but could help with collating information and explaining to other novices.  Really appreciate the help I received by reading posts from RonR and others on the forums, without which I could never have optimized my current configuration.

Note I make no claims about the superiority, quality or reliability of the providers I'm suggesting.  The focus here is simply economy, and I'm just relaying what I've read.  High volume users may find outbound per-call charges to be a disadvantage.  Finally, this setup is for two-provider devices - it's possible there's an even cheaper option using more than two providers.


1. "FREE" CONFIGURATION = still pay for outbound, but cheapest I'm aware of:

* Inbound calls are handled through a combination of free DID from IPKall + free SIP account from Anveo.
Voxox is another provider that offers a "free phone number", but I don't know if their service could replace one of the above providers, as I'm confused about how exactly their service could be integrated.

* Outbound calls are handled by Localphone (1/2 cent per minute to USA, possibly the same rate for international calls if configured to use iNums)


2. PAID CONFIGURATION = cheapest that provides free inbound calls with outgoing 911 service (as well as CNAM for inbound calls):

* Inbound handled by Callcentric ($1.50/month for unlimited calls).

* Outbound calls are handled by Localphone (1/2 cent per minute to USA, possibly the same rate for international calls if configured to use iNums), except for calls to 911 which are handled by Callcentric.


So for those willing to assist, here are some DigitMap and configuration questions that apply to both of the above setups:

1. Optimized routing setup information for both configurations, e.g. routing outgoing calls to automatically use Localphone without having to enter two asterisks and a number.
2. International calls:
I read something that seemed to indicate that Localphone requires a particular format for international calls, so ideally the obi should be configured to translate those numbers when dialed to the accepted format.
Additionally, there is the option of using iNums.  Since Localphone accepts this method, I assume these should always be used.  If international numbers could be automatically converted to iNums in the obi, that would be ideal...otherwise, is there a template that can be used for programming speed dials?
3. "Filter" to prevent inbound calls from SIP scanners.
4. Speed dial templates for free outbound calls to other Localphone, Callcentric, and/or Obi users.
5. For paid configuration, 911 calls automatically routed to Callcentric.
6. Setting up outbound caller ID (ignore checkboxes in obi configuration and just use Localphone's method of confirming phone numbers?)


Probably left something important out that can be added if there's interest?  Thanks to anyone willing to help.

drgeoff

It may possible to have IPKall forward incoming calls directly to an OBi instead of via an ITSP.  Direct IP calls are discussed at http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=6936.msg43895#msg43895.  Has anyone tried that?

hwittenb

It is possible to have IPKall forward incoming calls directly to an ip address, I have done that, however you may encounter fewer technical problems if you have IPKall forward the calls to a voip provider like CallCentric which has both a free "IP Freedom" account or a minimal pay-as-you-go account (forward the number to account@in.callcentric.com).  As an alternative to forwarding a Washington State IPKall number, CallCentric also has a program on their paid accounts where they will give you a free incoming number somewhere in New York State.  You can add a 911 service to your paid CallCentric account.  

You can also place and receive INUM calls thru any account at CallCentric, as well as order an INUM number thru CallCentric.

To use LocalPhone you do not necessarily need to have the account registered.  You can configure LocalPhone as a Voice Gateway (VGx) and make outgoing LocalPhone calls.

gderf

Quote from: hwittenb on November 23, 2013, 09:38:07 AM
As an alternative to forwarding a Washington State IPKall number, CallCentric also has a program on their paid accounts where they will give you a free incoming number somewhere in New York State.  You can add a 911 service to your paid CallCentric account.

CallCentric will provide anyone, anywhere with a free DID incoming number with New York City region area codes. If you specify that you are using the service outside the US or Canada then this is completely free. You don't need to have any type of paid account with them to get this service.

If you take a free DID with CallCentric, you are also automatically provided with the free "IP Freedom" service.

If you want E911 service with the free DID, you tell them you are in the US or Canada, and they will charge you $1.50/month for that part of the service.
Help me OBiHai PhoneOBi. You're my only hope.

DieterProvisionen



Quote from: hwittenb on November 23, 2013, 09:38:07 AM
To use LocalPhone you do not necessarily need to have the account registered.  You can configure LocalPhone as a Voice Gateway (VGx) and make outgoing LocalPhone calls.
Now I'll step into my role as newb spokesperson ;) Does using LocalPhone as a Voice Gateway (without registering the account) enable free or cheaper outbound calling?
A couple of points I should clarify about the two setups I proposed.
I don't have a need for alternate providers or config methods unless they are cheaper and/or easier while still providing same functionality (see next point)...it just avoids additional confusion.
2nd point is that the setups I'm persuing should be able to function as traditional phones (dialing numbers) first.  Again, the only reason for using things like dialing IP addresses is if it's easier or cheaper, in which case the user could refer to a template for storing speed dials in that format.
Thanks for the replies

sdb-

It depends on where you call.  You can set up some simple "these numbers via that service" rules but unlike a full PBX, the OBi is probably not suitable for more than a handful of such rules.

I have Google Voice as SP1, Anveo as SP2, and Localphone as VG3 on my 110.

GV is free to the U.S. but I cannot set my CallerID.

Localphone is $0.005 to the U.S. (and even cheaper with a subscription) and I can set my CallerID.

Anveo is $0.01 to the U.S. and I can set my CallerID.

However Anveo is $0.005 to Canada while Localphone is $0.01.

(all rates subject to change, of course.)

giqcass

The primary reason to use a Gateway is so you can add additional calling options without using extra service provider slots.  If you only plan on using 2 Service providers you should be fine as long as one of those service providers allows sip uri calls outside their domain.  Otherwise you may want to set up a voice gateway.

This is what a speed dial should look like.  All the examples below go to test numbers so you can check your set up.  17770000001 can be replaced with a Callcentric # in the following examples or place any sip uri between ( ).  5060 is the port number.

Use Service provider 1 to make call.
SP1(17770000001@in.callcentric.com:5060)

Use voice Gateway 1 to make call.
VG1(17770000001@in.callcentric.com:5060)

Call ip address using voice gateway.
VG1(17770000001@204.11.192.22:5060)

Call another Obi Device or Obion app.  Replace 222222222 with ob number.
PP(ob222222222)

Call a US phone number using service provider 1.
SP1(19093900003)

Long live our new ObiLords!

DieterProvisionen

Quote from: giqcass on November 23, 2013, 08:11:58 PM
The primary reason to use a Gateway is so you can add additional calling options without using extra service provider slots.  If you only plan on using 2 Service providers you should be fine as long as one of those service providers allows sip uri calls outside their domain.  Otherwise you may want to set up a voice gateway.
OK, so my first question would be, can I do this using only the Obi device (no additional hardware e.g. pbx), and if so, are there significant disadvantages of a voice gateway?  If yes to the first question and no to the second, it could be worth learning about.  Otherwise, I would stick to the two setups I described in my original post for simplicity.  I'm fairly certain both of them would cover everything traditional telephony does.

Quote from: giqcass on November 23, 2013, 08:11:58 PM
This is what a speed dial should look like.  All the examples below go to test numbers so you can check your set up.  17770000001 can be replaced with a Callcentric # in the following examples or place any sip uri between ( ).  5060 is the port number.

Use Service provider 1 to make call.
SP1(17770000001@in.callcentric.com:5060)

Use voice Gateway 1 to make call.
VG1(17770000001@in.callcentric.com:5060)

Call ip address using voice gateway.
VG1(17770000001@204.11.192.22:5060)

Call another Obi Device or Obion app.  Replace 222222222 with ob number.
PP(ob222222222)

Call a US phone number using service provider 1.
SP1(19093900003)
thanks giqcass for these, do you know anything about Localphone formatting?  I'd like to know how to enter speedials with Localphone to US numbers, to other Localphone users, and finally a template for speed dials using iNums.

DieterProvisionen

Quote from: sdb- on November 23, 2013, 08:02:32 PM
It depends on where you call.  You can set up some simple "these numbers via that service" rules but unlike a full PBX, the OBi is probably not suitable for more than a handful of such rules.

I have Google Voice as SP1, Anveo as SP2, and Localphone as VG3 on my 110.

GV is free to the U.S. but I cannot set my CallerID.

Localphone is $0.005 to the U.S. (and even cheaper with a subscription) and I can set my CallerID.

Anveo is $0.01 to the U.S. and I can set my CallerID.

However Anveo is $0.005 to Canada while Localphone is $0.01.

(all rates subject to change, of course.)
thanks, that's a good point about different providers being cheaper to certain locations.
Rather than get into all that, I guess I just want to stick to configuring the two setups I described in my original post, using the providers I mentioned.
I've already configured obi's using two different providers each in the past, by using DigitMaps that RonR and others suggested. 
My initial post isn't asking for much more which can't be handled by entering speed dials for specific destinations.  It seems like speed dials should only really be needed for convenience - to take advantage of free service-to-service calls, or iNum calls (if they can't be handled automatically by DigitMap).

giqcass

Quote from: DieterProvisionen on November 24, 2013, 03:02:56 PM
thanks giqcass for these, do you know anything about Localphone formatting?  I'd like to know how to enter speedials with Localphone to US numbers, to other Localphone users, and finally a template for speed dials using iNums.

Since Callcentric will dial inum for free you can use it to dial them.  Localphone does them free as well. Localphone seems to work better for me with the echo test but Callcentric might work better for other inums. Here is the echo test.
SP1(883510000000091)

For localphone to localphone calls you must use the special localphone number.  Log in and click the "internet phone" tab.  There will be a special number there that will tell you the phone number other localphone users need to call you for free.  A blue box on the right side of the screen.  This number is also listed as your localphone sip uri.  For this to work Localphone must be registered as a service provider.

Quote
Your Internet Phone number:
1000000
Other users of our Internet Phone can call you for free on this number.

Put that number in the speed dial using whichever Service provider is localphone.
SP2(Your Localphone Internet Phone number or your friends.)

I'll do some more testing but I believe you must simply use the full dialing code.  Country code and all.  To dial a US number with localphone from a speed dial. Like the following for the US.
SP1(19093900003)
Long live our new ObiLords!

carl

Dieter, one of the reasons I would not set Localphone just as a Voice gateway is the exteremely low costs and high quality of many ( not all) of their DID's. I have next to a US number also DID's from Netherlands and belgium and they provide a true land line quality for 1$ /month. that saves me long distance costs because people can always call me back on those numbers. Also, my mom can call from her prepaid cell overseas via calling card my I-num DID for free.  
I would rather set up Callwithus as a voice gateway in order to get cheaper rates to some destinations Localphone is too expensive, like European cell phones.
I also have a dim opinion about all that forwarding. Creates problems an latency. If you have to forward for some reason use a single step forwarding, e.g. Localphone for 0.5c/min or less with subscription.  Like someone else said "keep it simple, it will become complex by itself".

giqcass

Accessing voicemail on localphone.  Speed dial below.  This would be a good test number to make sure set up is correct.  The Obi dial plan would need to be changed if you wanted to dial this number from the phone without a speed dial.  The * key causes a problem.
SP1(*1571)
Long live our new ObiLords!

giqcass

My reading suggested dialing of sip uris from outside localphone was not possible.  My testing suggest otherwise. Dialing of localphone users is possible without registration.
SP2(Your Localphone Internet Phone number or your friends@localphone.com)
or
SP2(Your Localphone Internet Phone number or your friends@proxy.localphone.com)

This means Non Localphone users can also call you using a sip uri.
Your Localphone Internet Phone number@localphone.com
Long live our new ObiLords!

giqcass

I think I have came up with a better solution for your setup #1.  Anveo is not needed so it's one less service. All incoming calls are free and outbound calls use localphone like you wanted. IpKall can be directly routed to localphone.  I started a post in another section just for this solution but here it is again.   In and out calling is seamless once set up.  It only uses one service provider slot. With this set up enum numbers can also be dialed free.  This set up also provides Caller ID for free.  Service provider slot 2 is left open to do whatever you like.
http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=6979.0

Quote from: giqcass on November 25, 2013, 10:42:23 PM
Free Incoming DID on Localphone.  

1) Create an IpKall number.
2) Forward it to a sip uri that will allow you to take a call.
3) Create a LocalPhone account.
4) Add your IpKall number to the Localphone account and verify it.
5) Enter your localphone credentials into your Obi.
6) Replace the sip uri on IpKall with your localphone SipID@localphone.com

You now have a free incoming localphone phone number that will also display when you dial out using localphone.  Google Voice could be added to the mix if desired.


Long live our new ObiLords!

sdb-

Quote from: giqcass on November 25, 2013, 10:48:09 PM
Anveo is not needed so it's one less service. All incoming calls are free and outbound calls use localphone like you wanted.

Localphone does not provide E911.  If that is not an issue, sounds like this is the easiest approach yet.

DieterProvisionen

Quote from: giqcass on November 25, 2013, 10:48:09 PM
I think I have came up with a better solution for your setup #1.  Anveo is not needed so it's one less service. All incoming calls are free and outbound calls use localphone like you wanted. IpKall can be directly routed to localphone.  I started a post in another section just for this solution but here it is again.   In and out calling is seamless once set up.  It only uses one service provider slot. With this set up enum numbers can also be dialed free.  This set up also provides Caller ID for free.  Service provider slot 2 is left open to do whatever you like.

Free Incoming DID on Localphone.  

1) Create an IpKall number.
2) Forward it to a sip uri that will allow you to take a call.
3) Create a LocalPhone account.
4) Add your IpKall number to the Localphone account and verify it.
5) Enter your localphone credentials into your Obi.
6) Replace the sip uri on IpKall with your localphone SipID@localphone.com

You now have a free incoming localphone phone number that will also display when you dial out using localphone.  Google Voice could be added to the mix if desired.
giqcass this sounds great.  I tried to get my IpKall verified to Localphone account last night, but Obi never rang.  Maybe something with my existing GV configuration, digitmap or?  For step 2, I forwarded to Anveo, so I wouldn't have verification problem you described at the end of the thread you started.  But it didn't work.


I will try again asap because your method does sound ideal for setup #1.

sdb-

Did you test calling your IPKall number from somewhere else?  The number has to be working in order for localphone verification to succeed.

DieterProvisionen

Quote from: sdb- on December 03, 2013, 07:18:22 AM
Did you test calling your IPKall number from somewhere else?  The number has to be working in order for localphone verification to succeed.
I tested IPKall # and it didn't work...rang for two minutes and then I got busy signal. ???   
On IPKall website I set IPKall number to use Anveo SIP, but do I need to have obi configured to use Anveo if I just want to test IPKall number?
Obi is currently setup with GV and Localphone as service providers.

giqcass

Quote from: DieterProvisionen on December 04, 2013, 01:12:26 PM
I tested IPKall # and it didn't work...rang for two minutes and then I got busy signal. ???   
On IPKall website I set IPKall number to use Anveo SIP, but do I need to have obi configured to use Anveo if I just want to test IPKall number?
Obi is currently setup with GV and Localphone as service providers.

Ipkall will attempt to contact you for 120 seconds by default before giving up.  If you forward IpKall to Anveo you must be able to receive incoming anveo calls or it won't work.  You don't need Anveo to be configured on your Obi to make outgoing calls but your Obi must be able to receive incoming calls from Anveo.
Long live our new ObiLords!

vtsnaab

This is a great thread, so I hope it can wake up for a bit ?!?
Quote from: giqcass on November 25, 2013, 10:48:09 PM
I think I have came up with a better solution for your setup #1.  Anveo is not needed so it's one less service. All incoming calls are free and outbound calls use localphone like you wanted. IpKall can be directly routed to localphone.  I started a post in another section just for this solution but here it is again.   In and out calling is seamless once set up.  It only uses one service provider slot. With this set up enum numbers can also be dialed free.  This set up also provides Caller ID for free.  Service provider slot 2 is left open to do whatever you like.
http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=6979.0

Quote from: giqcass on November 25, 2013, 10:42:23 PM
Free Incoming DID on Localphone.  

1) Create an IpKall number.
2) Forward it to a sip uri that will allow you to take a call.
3) Create a LocalPhone account.
4) Add your IpKall number to the Localphone account and verify it.
5) Enter your localphone credentials into your Obi.
6) Replace the sip uri on IpKall with your localphone SipID@localphone.com

You now have a free incoming localphone phone number that will also display when you dial out using localphone.  Google Voice could be added to the mix if desired.
My query that I hope Gigcass may reply to is that I already have a working IPKall # which (for now...) is used as a forwarder for GV and works as well as I would expect it to.

So, given that, would one do your suggested procedure differently to change a number like mine around - or would one abandon the existing number and start anew ??

Also worthy of mention IMO is that after eading your sig several times I visited e164.org and then Sipbroker.
Most of the stuff there really does look a bit too complicated for me.
What really grabbed my attention the most at that Sipbroker site is that it is extremely dated and has a great many dead links posted all throughout the site.
One of those is http://www.voxalot.com - which gives only: 403 Error - Forbidden
And that one is one of it's associated sites...

Thanks for any info & pointers.