News:

On Tuesday September 6th the forum will be down for maintenance from 9:30 PM to 11:59 PM PDT

Main Menu

Raspberry Pi + GVmate = what we want once Google ends support for XMPP

Started by Haswell1150, March 16, 2014, 04:18:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Haswell1150

With Google ending support for XMPP in less than two months, why doesn't Obihai make a new Obitalk that's a combination of Raspberry Pi and GVmate?

GVmate is a USB device that connects to a computer then it connects to a phone; and best of all it doesn't use XMPP.  So it will work after May 15, 2014.  The only downside to GVmate is that it must be connected to a Windows computer and the computer must be on in order to make and receive calls. Now this is where Raspberry Pi comes in.

Since Raspberry Pi is a computer, all Obihai would have to do is integrated GVmate into Raspberry Pi and voila. Now you've got a standalone device that doesn't need to be connected to a desktop or laptop, and that will work once Google ends support for XMPP.

If Obihai plays their cards right, Google ending support for XMPP could be the best thing that ever happened to them.  All Obihai would have to do is make an Obitalk 2.0 that's Raspberry Pi + GVmate.  Then bang, you've now gotten all of your customers to buy your product again. 

I would pay for a new Obitalk that doesn't need to be connected to a desktop or laptop, and that will work after May 15, 2014

gderf

Quote from: Haswell1150 on March 16, 2014, 04:18:10 PM.......Then bang, you've now gotten all of your customers to buy your product again.

This brings new meaning to the word optimistic.
Help me OBiHai PhoneOBi. You're my only hope.

drgeoff

I'll put it politely.   :)

I very much doubt that there is any technical problem which Obihai could not overcome to enable the current Obis to work with GV after 14 May.  The OBis already contain a computer.

Marty.ba.calif.usa

Quote from: drgeoff on March 16, 2014, 04:57:53 PM
I'll put it politely.   :)

I very much doubt that there is any technical problem which Obihai could not overcome to enable the current Obis to work with GV after 14 May.  The OBis already contain a computer.
So, they would need to be able to run Google Voice in a browser on an Obi, and somehow magically control it without the use of any APIs to make it work?  That sounds like a pretty good trick - how will they be able to do that?

drgeoff

Quote from: Marty.ba.calif.usa on March 16, 2014, 09:49:40 PM
Quote from: drgeoff on March 16, 2014, 04:57:53 PM
I'll put it politely.   :)

I very much doubt that there is any technical problem which Obihai could not overcome to enable the current Obis to work with GV after 14 May.  The OBis already contain a computer.
So, they would need to be able to run Google Voice in a browser on an Obi, and somehow magically control it without the use of any APIs to make it work?  That sounds like a pretty good trick - how will they be able to do that?

In a similar way to how Sipsorcery does it now or how it used to be done in Asterisk.

Marty.ba.calif.usa

Quote from: drgeoff on March 17, 2014, 04:40:29 AM
Quote from: Marty.ba.calif.usa on March 16, 2014, 09:49:40 PM
Quote from: drgeoff on March 16, 2014, 04:57:53 PM
I'll put it politely.   :)

I very much doubt that there is any technical problem which Obihai could not overcome to enable the current Obis to work with GV after 14 May.  The OBis already contain a computer.
So, they would need to be able to run Google Voice in a browser on an Obi, and somehow magically control it without the use of any APIs to make it work?  That sounds like a pretty good trick - how will they be able to do that?

In a similar way to how Sipsorcery does it now or how it used to be done in Asterisk.
I couldn't find out how that works, or any real information about it except discussions on how to get it to work, and how to write and troubleshoot scripts.  It looks like something that might not be very reliable, since it relies on unsupported interfaces to GV, which I hear is itself getting less and less reliable.

So, I still don't really know what they are doing.  There's no wikipedia entry, and their website gives very little information.  Does it need a computer to be running to use it?

drgeoff

Quote from: Marty.ba.calif.usa on March 17, 2014, 10:56:58 AM
Quote from: drgeoff on March 17, 2014, 04:40:29 AM
Quote from: Marty.ba.calif.usa on March 16, 2014, 09:49:40 PM
Quote from: drgeoff on March 16, 2014, 04:57:53 PM
I'll put it politely.   :)

I very much doubt that there is any technical problem which Obihai could not overcome to enable the current Obis to work with GV after 14 May.  The OBis already contain a computer.
So, they would need to be able to run Google Voice in a browser on an Obi, and somehow magically control it without the use of any APIs to make it work?  That sounds like a pretty good trick - how will they be able to do that?

In a similar way to how Sipsorcery does it now or how it used to be done in Asterisk.
I couldn't find out how that works, or any real information about it except discussions on how to get it to work, and how to write and troubleshoot scripts.  It looks like something that might not be very reliable, since it relies on unsupported interfaces to GV, which I hear is itself getting less and less reliable.

So, I still don't really know what they are doing.  There's no wikipedia entry, and their website gives very little information.  Does it need a computer to be running to use it?
1.  First off, let me say that the point I was trying to make in my first post on this topic is that I don't believe it is a hardware inadequacy of the existing OBis that prevents Obihai from continuing to provide GV functionality after 14 May. So making a product containing a Raspberry Pi doesn't help.

2.  I don't claim to know down to the last detail how the Sipsorcery implementation works.  However it isn't necessary to run a full-blooded browser just to 'poke' a few values back to a web-page server.  And no, it isn't necessary to have a PC running.  An ordinary ATA, Obi or other make, is quite enough to make and receive GV calls through Sipsorcery, once the Sipsorcery dial-plan has been configured and a suitable DID has been arranged.

giqcass

Actually Sipsorcery does log in just like a web browser but it doesn't actually need to be anything near a full blown pc browser.  It can log in to the mobile version of the website.  Then it grabs a single token that it needs to verify the session.  After that all it has to do is send a few variables to the Google Voice website. 
Long live our new ObiLords!

Marty.ba.calif.usa

Quote from: giqcass on March 17, 2014, 03:16:01 PM
Actually Sipsorcery does log in just like a web browser but it doesn't actually need to be anything near a full blown pc browser.  It can log in to the mobile version of the website.  Then it grabs a single token that it needs to verify the session.  After that all it has to do is send a few variables to the Google Voice website. 
So, it sounds like it essentially spoofs a browser as far as GV knows?  That's what I was thinking it might do, which is why it didn't sound very reliable.  I've used products in the past that kept breaking every time a website was updated.  They would come out with a fix, sometimes fairly quickly, but it can be pretty inconvenient for something like a phone - but I guess any VOIP needs at least some backup plan, which isn't that hard to implement, I suppose.

Rick

OBi entered the market, likely without planning well for the future, naively thinking they could provide free phone service, via Google Voice, to the masses.

GV figured it out and made a change (last year) that threw OBI for a loop, but they figured a way around it.

GV then said we're tired of doing this and we're removing this capability.

In the meantime, OBi figured out that servicing consumers directly isn't their business model and is now focused on providing boxes to service providers and offloading all those nasty customer interactions.

In short, OBi is going to do NOTHING to keep the status quo, so save your breadth.  It's time to leave GV behind and move on to a real VoIP provider.

drgeoff

I'm not expecting Obihai to do anything further on GV.  I suspect Google told them there will be consequences if they do.

IMHO Obiha still make the best ATAs available that have ever been marketed.

azrobert

What giqcass described is the GV Callback method that SipSorcery uses. There is a permanent connection to GV with the XMPP protocol that the OBi uses.

I have a free grandfathered SipSorcery account, so I will be using them. If you know what you are doing, you can setup the callback method on Asterisk. If I remember correctly in the last 4 years the callback method died twice because of changes by GV. These outages did not affect inbound calls. This is unreliable, but not that unreliable. All you would need is a Pay as You Go provider with no monthly charges for backup and put $10 in the account. This is a small price to pay for free service.

PcPhoneSoft claims they have their GVmate software working in a lab with the Hangouts protocol and will switch to it before May 15th. I'll believe it when I see it, but if they can Asterisk or Yate should also be able to use the Hangouts protocol.

Marty.ba.calif.usa

Quote from: drgeoff on March 18, 2014, 07:29:30 AM
I'm not expecting Obihai to do anything further on GV.  I suspect Google told them there will be consequences if they do.

IMHO Obiha still make the best ATAs available that have ever been marketed.
In my opinion, you are correct, but not for that reason.  I don't think Google cares about Obiha users at all, they care only about their own strategy, which appears to be Hangouts for everything.  It sees that Hangouts may be the end-all strategy to incorporate the features of GV and all their other messaging apps, according to this article:  http://goo.gl/8JQzMq

drgeoff

Google is not a charity.  Think about how they make their billions.  How do users of Obihai boxes fit into that business model?

twinclouds

If you have Raspberry Pi, why don't you try the "old" dialback approach.  It was suggested in: http://tech.iprock.com/?p=9784.  I have also written a step by step guide in http://hobbiesbytwinclouds.wordpress.com/2014/02/07/how-to-make-and-receive-call-using-google-voice-without-xmpp/, which is pretty straightforward.  If you know how to use RPi, you should be able to do that.