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Author Topic: A sort of sideways work-around for GV post-Obi...maybe ??  (Read 8329 times)
vtsnaab
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« on: April 30, 2014, 07:17:16 pm »

I was reminded of a cool trick here...
http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=7500.msg48229#msg48229
Where Gigcass mentions using wifi for phone stuff.

I looked into this a while back, but it was still in it's infancy - so I looked again and found that=>
Mobile phones with Android & Wifi abilities are able to be used WITHOUT any cellular activation to make calls & do texts wherever there is an available wireless internet signal.
(Like at many stores, public buildings & most peoples homes.)

So to test this I've bought a really cheap Android phone - and if it works well enough then that will solve 1/2 of my phone concerns. (It's a Huawei Inspira SIM 5.)

What is cool to me about this is that it can easily & very cheaply solve not one but SEVERAL problems for me=>
- What to do with incoming GV calls post Obi;
- How to keep using SMS post-Obi;
- How to have nearly free cellular-like abilities if I am out & about;
- How to keep & use GV (for now) while having other VOIP options via the Obi.

IMO, being able to keep using GV for calls & SMS is well worth the $40 phone even if it gets killed off somehow in 6 months or less - and even so I suspect there will be other free/cheap Wifi VOIP options that work well with an Android phone even if/when GV shuts that conduit down as well.

Now all I have to do is wait for the phone to arrive...
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 06:55:15 pm by vtsnaab » Logged
vtsnaab
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 09:06:54 pm »

Hmmmm....maybe...maybe not ??
"After May 15, 2014. Google is shutting down ALL third party VoIP apps that integrate with their Voice services."

And here I thought it was only an XMPP thing - good thing I can return that phone then if need be.

But then I see this=>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qM-xAU-dt4
Which makes it seem like it'll work fine via Hangouts ??

And this, suggesting that it uses GV via PBXes.org:
http://thedroidguy.com/2014/04/setup-wifi-calling-android-device/

And this:
http://www.engadget.com/discuss/replacing-google-voice-1pks/

And...
http://www.upptalk.com/

Anybody know what is really the story with these methods as pertains to Android phones via Wifi ??

Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 06:56:40 pm by vtsnaab » Logged
SteveInWA
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2014, 10:42:23 pm »

Most of what you read on the internet about Google Voice is simply wrong, misinformed, outdated, or just plain dumb.

I've already described the background behind the May 15th changes, what will change, and what won't change, in my post here:

http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=7750.msg50190#msg50190

Aside from that, the single most misunderstood thing about the mobile Google Voice app for Android or iOS, is that is not, and never has been, a VoIP (internet voice calling) app.  It cannot make or receive calls over WiFi/3G/4G.  It only manages calls over a working mobile phone's active voice network connection.

After May 15th, the mobile Google Voice apps will continue to be able to make and receive voice calls over the voice network carrier's connection, and they will continue to be able to send and receive SMS texts over the internet (so, those are two completely different functions, provided by two different gateways).

Today, the Google Hangouts app for Apple iOS devices can make and receive voice calls over the internet (VoIP).  At some TBD (hopefully soon) future date, the Android Hangouts app will also be able to make and receive voice calls over VoIP, but it doesn't have that capability today.

Finally, at some future TBD date, the Voice and Hangouts, confusingly different, and somewhat overlapping user interfaces (the apps themselves) will merge into one app.  The underlying services provided are expected to stay the same or improve.  In other words, the Google Voice service isn't going away, but the way you use it on a device or web page will look different, as it is integrated with Hangouts.
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ianobi
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 01:52:10 am »

If you download the free app CSipSimple onto your android phone, then you can configure any SIP provider on CSipSimple for use on your cell phone. This works very reliably when connecting via wifi. If you forward your GV calls to the SIP provider, then you now have incoming GV service via the SIP provider at least for voice calls. For outgoing you would need to use the SIP provider.

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giqcass
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2014, 03:11:13 am »

I was on this track back in December and it can work.

What SteveInWA says is accurate BUT there are 3rd party apps that use Google Voice in a different manner.  No XMPP and no outbound call.  There are apps that log in to your Google Voice account and initiate a callback.  One of these apps can be placed on an Android phone paired via Bluetooth.  You would pick up your phone, dial a number, and hang up.  An incoming call would ring the phone number you specified during setup of the app then your call would be connected to the number you dialed.  Because this type of app does not use XMPP I expect it to continue to work post XMPP. One such app is Voice Plus.  I have tested this setup[/url] with a free Callcentric incoming DID and it worked.  Since the Obi can use separate outbound and inbound routes the return call does not need to use the Android phone but if you use an app like CsipSimple it could.  Based on my tests the Obi may reject sending a call to the Android phone if it has never been activated.  That may only pertain to certain firmware versions.  If you activated the phone on Prepaid for one month an let the service expire I believe that would suffice.

As SteveInWA mentioned we expect the Hangouts app to support pure VOIP eventually.  IF/When it does it's likely to simplify the whole process and work seamlessly.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 03:18:22 am by giqcass » Logged

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vtsnaab
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 11:20:52 am »

Thanks for the great & helpful replies Folks !!!

What I am hoping for - at least for a while - is to have the Android phone for SMS in/out and to get incoming calls with it from the GV number, if such is possible.

If the voice portion can not be worked around, then I'll have to switch numbers that much sooner and will keep the wee 'droid gadget just for SMS via Wifi (and add some cheap VOIP to it for voice).

In the meantime I'll soon have a brandy-dandy new phone to beat the snots out of trying to make this all work.

Any additional info which is helpful for either of the above goals will be hugely appreciated !!!

Thanks.
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giqcass
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2014, 08:39:20 pm »

Free Inbound Voice
Google Voice forwarded to a free DID from Callcentric.
A Sip program like CsipSimple or Sipdroid registered to Callcentric.

Free Outbound Voice
The free Vonage app with free outbound only VOIP service. Spoofing your Google Voice number.

SMS messaging in and out
The Google Voice app.  The Hangouts app will also work but the Google Voice app seems to work better for me.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 08:42:01 pm by giqcass » Logged

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vtsnaab
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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 10:21:13 pm »

That is fantastically useful info - thanks loads Gigcass !!!

I had PM'd you asking about what I found written by you in an older thread, here:
http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=6968.msg50819#msg50819

And it says:
***********************************************************
I think I have came up with a better solution for your setup #1.  Anveo is not needed so it's one less service. All incoming calls are free and outbound calls use localphone like you wanted. IpKall can be directly routed to localphone.  I started a post in another section just for this solution but here it is again.   In and out calling is seamless once set up.  It only uses one service provider slot. With this set up enum numbers can also be dialed free.  This set up also provides Caller ID for free.  Service provider slot 2 is left open to do whatever you like.
http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=6979.0

Free Incoming DID on Localphone. 

1) Create an IpKall number.
2) Forward it to a sip uri that will allow you to take a call.
3) Create a LocalPhone account.
4) Add your IpKall number to the Localphone account and verify it.
5) Enter your localphone credentials into your Obi.
6) Replace the sip uri on IpKall with your localphone SipID@localphone.com

You now have a free incoming localphone phone number that will also display when you dial out using localphone.  Google Voice could be added to the mix if desired.
My query that I hope Gigcass may reply to is that I already have a working IPKall # which (for now...) is used as a forwarder for GV and works as well as I would expect it to.

So, given that, would one do your suggested procedure differently to change a number like mine around - or would one abandon the existing number and start anew ??

Also worthy of mention IMO is that after eading your sig several times I visited e164.org and then Sipbroker.
Most of the stuff there really does look a bit too complicated for me.
What really grabbed my attention the most at that Sipbroker site is that it is extremely dated and has a great many dead links posted all throughout the site.
One of those is http://www.voxalot.com - which gives only: 403 Error - Forbidden
And that one is one of it's associated sites...

Thanks for any info & pointers.
*************************
And I presume that if one does the above that the .01 in/out Localphone rates apply as normal...even though at that time it may have been free for incoming this way ??

Thanks.
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giqcass
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2014, 12:49:36 am »

Sorry I hadn't noticed the PM just yet.

My query that I hope Gigcass may reply to is that I already have a working IPKall # which (for now...) is used as a forwarder for GV and works as well as I would expect it to.

So, given that, would one do your suggested procedure differently to change a number like mine around - or would one abandon the existing number and start anew ??
If you want to forward the number to Localphone follow the setup as described starting at step 2.  If you are happy with your current IpKall configuration and it is ringing your Obi I see no reason to change it.  Instead of forwarding the IpKall number to Localphone I would leave it as it currently is.  Don't break what is working fine. I would simply create a Voice Gateway for Localphone so it can be used as an outbound only service.  Then I would set up Call Spoofing on Localphone for whatever phone number you want to appear when you dial out using Localphone.  I am unaware of Localphone charging anything for incoming calls unless you forward them to a real phone number instead of using an ATA device like the obi.  The US outgoing rate is .5 cents last I checked.


Also worthy of mention IMO is that after eading your sig several times I visited e164.org and then Sipbroker.
Most of the stuff there really does look a bit too complicated for me.
What really grabbed my attention the most at that Sipbroker site is that it is extremely dated and has a great many dead links posted all throughout the site.
One of those is http://www.voxalot.com - which gives only: 403 Error - Forbidden
And that one is one of it's associated sites...
You are correct many links are outdated but Sipbroker and e164.org are both very much alive and well.  One reason you might want to use Sipbroker and e164.org is if you want to allow people without a Sip phone to call you for free from their home phone.  One member on the forums here said his daughter uses sipbroker to call him.  For her his US phone number is long distance but Sipbroker provides numbers in Canada that she can dial as a local call.  She then can dial a virtual extension number to reach him for free.

e164.org is more of a directory type service.  I for instance registered my phone numbers there.  When someone calls me using a Sipbroker local access number it simplifies the process a little.  Since my phone numbers are all in the e164.org directory they can dial my real telephone number instead of some complicated string of numbers after calling the Sipbroker access number.  This allows people almost anywhere in the world to call me for the cost of a local call.

In addition some PBX devices support calling e164.org numbers.  When a number is dialed they check the directory to see if there is a free e164.org route.  If there is they bypass the regular telephone network and make a direct VOIP call.  If there isn't a free route they then dial the number on the regular PSTN network.

Hope that answers most of your questions.  Let us know if you have any other queries.  There is someone here that has knowledge about nearly anything you can think of.  This forum is a truly excellent resource.
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vtsnaab
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2014, 11:34:51 am »

Thanks Bunches Gigcass !!!
My only remaining confusion is one I could find no clear answer to on the Localphone site.
(Also given that the post I was replying to is around a year old...)

It seems to show that all incoming & outgoing US calls are .01/minute, whereas what we've been discussing here about LP seems to indicate that one may have a free number AND free incoming from them - please tell me, is this still true ??

Thanks.
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giqcass
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2014, 08:03:34 pm »

I think you are just reading the outgoing rates incorrectly. Pay as you go with no subscription to the US48 is 1/2 cent per minute.  With a subscription it can be as little as 1/10 of a cent per minute.
$0.005 and $0.001 respectively.  Hawaii and Alaska are higher rates.
http://www.localphone.com/call/united_states

Now for the incoming part.  As I said before you only pay for incoming calls if you forward them to another telephone.  If you use an ATA device like the Obi to receive the call then it is free for incoming.
Quote
What youíll pay

To receive calls on your phone you pay our low call rates E.g. If youíre in Spain and your family call you from the United States, you pay our Spanish rates for the duration of the call.

But forward calls to our Internet Phone and itís free to talk

 If you forward an IpKall number to Localphone sip uri you can avoid the setup fee and the monthly cost they mention below.  The setup fees and monthly cost refer to when you buy a phone number from Localphone directly.  Those fees are also very reasonable should you ever want to dump Ipkall for any reason.
http://www.localphone.com/services/incoming_numbers

Quote
Set up and monthly costs
There's a small monthly rental charge and a one-off set up cost. Plus you can cancel at any time.
As I said before I wouldn't switch my incoming to Localphone anyway if you already have a reliable incoming route. Don't fix what isn't broke!
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 08:09:13 pm by giqcass » Logged

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Old OBi? Want Ring.to?
vtsnaab
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2014, 08:23:52 pm »

Thanks Again Gigcass !!
I haven't yet settled upon a replacement incoming route - have been leaning strongly towards FutureFive as it looks very good to me - but also towards Voip.ms or Localphone.

Here's why I got an IPKall #:
I used IPKall as a forwarding number to a free CC account & VM to try and get away from the GV VM when they started with the more restrictive 'security' stuff - and it didn't totally work - so essentially I have an IPKall # I can use for something else if desired.

Thanks very much for the LP info - I really had trouble finding concise info at their site !!!
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