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Author Topic: Google Voice back as Approved Service Provider!?  (Read 135277 times)
Marc
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Posts: 71



« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2014, 04:10:07 pm »

Steve,
Thank you for the great update and all the details and information that you have been able to share.  I read the conspiracy type comments and laugh at how absurd people can be.  In business there are reasons for everything and most of the time lay people couldn't and shouldn't be expected to know all the regulations, trade practices, etc that go into making decisions.

I have an acquaintance who, when he heard the two doctors in Atlanta that were being treated for Ebola were released from the hospital, went off on how this is how Obama is going to maintain power and get around the constitutional amendment limiting him to 2 terms.  I'm sure he heard it on Fox or some similar network.  But my point is that people have the need to see a conspiracy, despite the cold hard facts, because it gives them excitement and something to bitch & moan & complain about.

You're professional style prose should allay those that fear the great OBi/Google VOIP take over of 2014/2015. 
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OBi110 (stored in closet now,) OBi202 x 14, OBi1032 x 3, OBi1062 x 3
Crow550
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Posts: 104


« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2014, 02:59:11 pm »

With Hangouts, Google added real 3rd party support to Google Voice / Hangouts.

I detailed it in this thread: http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=8092.msg54177

So Obi still uses XMPP just a more secure version?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 03:08:51 pm by Crow550 » Logged
SteveInWA
Hero Member & Beta Tester
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Posts: 3943



« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2014, 08:05:23 pm »

With Hangouts, Google added real 3rd party support to Google Voice / Hangouts.

I detailed it in this thread: http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=8092.msg54177

So Obi still uses XMPP just a more secure version?

No.  This has nothing to do with the Hangouts API, and the Hangouts API has nothing to do with "real 3rd party support to Google Voice."

No.  There is no "more secure version of XMPP."  Obihai changed the authentication method.  They are no longer using your Google (Gmail/Google Chat) user ID and password to directly sign into your Google account as a Chat client (a security exposure).  They are now using an entirely different method, which involves OAUTH 2.0 authentication and exchange of access tokens.  Obihai now has no knowledge of your Google user name and password.  This has nothing to do with XMPP signaling protocol, and it has no relevance as to whether XMPP (which was the Google Chat signaling protocol) will continue to be supported, and it is completely irrelevant to the WebRTC APIs.

This is just uninformed speculation, and it's incorrect.  I've explained it in extensive detail in my previous post:

http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=8443.msg55493#msg55493
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 08:07:00 pm by SteveInWA » Logged

MikePA
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Posts: 58


« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2014, 05:07:02 pm »

Steve,
Thank you for the great update and all the details and information that you have been able to share.  

Agreed. Steve's post was great.

I have an acquaintance who, when he heard the two doctors in Atlanta that were being treated for Ebola were released from the hospital, went off on how this is how Obama is going to maintain power and get around the constitutional amendment limiting him to 2 terms.  I'm sure he heard it on Fox or some similar network.  But my point is that people have the need to see a conspiracy, despite the cold hard facts, because it gives them excitement and something to bitch & moan & complain about.

Then there are moronic portions of posts as quoted above.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 05:09:26 pm by MikePA » Logged
Brightershade
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Posts: 8


« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2014, 11:40:26 am »

Is the new authentication method the reason outbound calls display a caller ID of 760-705-8888 and don't show up in my call history at https://www.google.com/voice#history ? Huh

UPDATE: I found the answer here -- http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=8512.0
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 03:12:44 pm by Brightershade » Logged
Kotdiawo
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Posts: 3


« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2014, 10:00:11 am »

Here is the official announcement. http://bit.ly/1qJTUCl
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mo832
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Posts: 216


« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2014, 01:00:24 pm »

@
SteveInWA,

Regarding the new setup to make GV your SP...

I have been using GV nonstop on SP2 throughout this whole adventure. I setup SP1 with a Callcentric DID and forward GV to CC and then to the Obi100. As long as XMPP was still working, I figured I would "ride it out" for as long as possible on the 2nd SP, so I made no changes to that side of my system. BTW, I got a special "application password" from Google to input into Obitalk bc I didn't want to disclose my gmail credentials.

So, since I have been using GV/Obi all along, and it already has my login stored, and it still works as normal as of today, do I need to do anything? Did the Obi update change anything in my system automatically? I believe I had auto updates turned off anyway. How can I check if any changes were made and if they have altered my config such that I may need to take action to continue to make calls thru my handset with GV ?
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Durbhasa
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Posts: 14


« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2014, 01:21:53 pm »

Thanks, SteveInWA, for all of the information you provided.

....
Personally, I forward inbound calls from GV to a Callcentric DID, and make outbound calls via Callcentric or Localphone, and I've found that to be the best combination of features, performance and cost for me.

After 15 May, I switched to exactly this system, and it's worked well for the most part.  I think I miss though, with this setup, is Google Voice information about my outgoing calls, since they're no longer handled through GVoice. (I find it a nice feature of Google Voice that I can easily look through missed, received calls etc.)
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Crow550
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Posts: 104


« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2014, 02:16:35 pm »

Here is the official announcement. http://bit.ly/1qJTUCl

Awesome so now it's Officially Supported by Google......

So one has to wonder if it's still using XMPP or has merged with Hangouts yet? Since it's now "Officially Supported" then I assume it will be moving from XMPP....

Unless the new secure method of connecting to XMPP has made them decide to keep it. Which is cool too. As I believe XMPP was going to be shutdown because it wasn't consider secure......

Either way Google Voice is now Officially Supported. So groovy.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 02:18:51 pm by Crow550 » Logged
simpleAnswers
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Posts: 44


« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2014, 02:24:08 pm »

Hello y'all...

I abandoned the forum months ago, after it generally descended into endless speculation, conspiracy theories, and mis-information, and above all, obnoxious behavior by a few people in posts about Google Voice.  I resisted returning here, but given that a new frenzy of speculation has been whipped up, let me try to offer you the most current, accurate information you will get, other than from an employee of Obihai or Google.
. . . . .. . . . . .. .. . . .
. . . . . OAUTH never gives the third party your Google user ID or password.  Instead, you log into your own Google account directly, and then the third party requests permission to access defined information on your Google account.  You give permission to Google directly, which then exchanges "access tokens" with the third party.  This is the pop-up window you will now see when you add GV as a service provider.  Look for "OAUTH" in the URL string.  You can confirm that your device has been updated, by listening for a female, vs. male, "auto attendant" voice.


Oh wow, this is by far the MOST clear and well written take on the GV subject I have read on this forum.

Just like you, I frankly gave up on all the pointless speculation I was reading on the forum and left and haven't returned until today when I finally got the email from Obihai that GV is now again supported. The speculation was too rampant.

I figured that it had to be security related. Heck when I first signed up for Obi, when it asked for my gmail password, I refused and set up another gmail account just for that, and even still was not comfortable with the hand over your credentials process. I kept asking why it didn't just request authorization to access the account like every good service does now. So I'm glad that they have been forced to use industry standard authorization tokens which I can hopefully revoke from my account whenever I want. The other option was to use an application password.

Most users here don't know the power of the google account API, with everything being lumped into under one google login: gmail, drive, keep, calendar, search history, docs, play, maps etc. A breach can do a lot of damage very quickly, I think any service that doesn't use the request access protocol where you can revoke when you want will slowly get blocked by Big-G eventually. I'm a big proponent for the way Big-G has implemented 2 factor authentication on their services and I use that regularly with a little bit more confidence.

As for the other VOIP services, IMHO all the other VOIP services I tried were simply not up to scratch. Period! Yes I signed up for them all, be it the sorcery, name changing voip, the centric, the anvil, the powerful phone you name it. They were all not good to work with the Obi for me. Simple things like 2nd line ringing etc were almost impossible to get to work seamlessly. They can rejoice that the little confusion made them some nice $$$.

For me after May 15th came and went and the sky didn't fall like was speculated. After another one of the other VOIP services went down again, I went back and switched my Obi back to GV. With the simple logic that I'll run it till the wheels come off and until then I'll take my chances. And you know what, I never had any issues again it has been smooth and that was 5 months ago.

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Crow550
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Posts: 104


« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2014, 03:14:16 pm »

It wasn't just Obihai.

GrooveIP & Talkatone patched out the Google Voice calling and went with other services because they had gotten the same info at the time.
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euphgeek
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Posts: 1


« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2014, 04:07:26 pm »

I signed up for a GV number last year.  Actually, I ported my landline to GV using instructions I found in these forums.  I thought I might use an OBi device with it until I found out about Google's plans to abandon the protocol OBi was using to connect to GV.  Oh, well, no harm, no foul.  At least I heard about it before I bought a device.  But today I got an e-mail telling me that GV is officially supported on OBi devices.  My question now is, does this announcement change anything that Steve said earlier to the effect of "use at your own risk" or the future viability of XMPP?
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Crow550
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« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2014, 04:19:10 pm »

Before it was not supported by Google. It was a hack and deemed insecure.

Now it's officially supported and approved by Google.
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gadgetrants
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« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2014, 05:24:22 pm »

Guys, I'm not nearly as smart (or informed) as Steve, but I did a text search through Obi's announcement and did NOT find the words "supported by Google" or any variant thereof in the same sentence.  I might go back and reread Steve's (fantastic) post with a fine-toothed comb, but my original read was that Google is *tolerating* the use of older protocol by Obi (now permitted given the security fix). 

As I see it, there is no indication that *anything* was formally approved or supported by Google.  Like Steve said, the "approved" word seems to be Obi's clever way of assuring its customers that GV calling works on their device.   This shouldn't be read as Google green-lighting/approving/condoning/shaking-hands-with/etc. Obi in any meaningful sense.  In other words, it works as long as it works.  Correct, Steve?

-Matt

PS  On a personal note, I *am* somewhat peeved at all the SKY-IS-FALLING language on various forums late last year.  None of this is Steve's fault (who I first met on the GV boards, where he does the work of ten men), but his efforts to step in and remind people about the looming "deadline" had rational people like me assuming that Google's date was for real.  He was just doing the best he could with the information available at the time.  Still, A LOT OF PEOPLE "needlessly" fretted and in many cases, end up purchasing a VOIP plan they *may not* have needed (this is, BTW, called "counterfactual reasoning", AKA "hindsight is always 20/20" or if you prefer, Monday-morning-quarterbacking).  In fact, a year from now we may discover that we ALL could have just kept the GV status quo and it all would have worked out.  Again, not pointing my finger at anyone in particular -- just bemoaning the fact that on September 11, 2014 the "OBi is losing GV" story is a lot less compelling than it was last year at this time.  Sometimes the confusion and uncertainty is a reasonable byproduct of the circumstances, and sometimes it's just...totally avoidable. 
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Crow550
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« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2014, 05:45:20 pm »

Try searching for: "Google Voice is now Officially Supported on OBi VoIP devices"

Also from someone at Google: https://plus.google.com/+CheeChew/posts/DRi3GxJ5hWK

Now listen closely....

It was not only Obihai that had gotten an E-mail from Google. It was also GrooveIP and Talkatone which are two companies that were providing VOIP calling with Google Voice on Android and iOS.

GrooveIP and Talkatone had patched out the Google Voice calling as requested and went with other providers. As Obi offered a list of services that worked with Google Voice too.

For all intents and purposes it seemed that XMPP support was going away as Google was saying it was insecure and Google Talk was merging with Hangouts.

Now Google has a more secure way and is officially supporting 3rd parties.

Do not get on to others claiming they were over dramatic. The message was clear.

However those who are still using Google Voice with the old login method should remove and re-add Google Voice to use the more secure login. Wink
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 05:53:33 pm by Crow550 » Logged
gadgetrants
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Posts: 3


« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2014, 05:50:18 pm »

Try searching for: "Google Voice is now Officially Supported on OBi VoIP devices"

Also: https://plus.google.com/+CheeChew/posts/DRi3GxJ5hWK
Super, thanks!

For all intents and purposes it seemed that XMPP support was going away as Google was saying it was insecure and Google Talk was merging with Hangouts.

Now Google has a more secure way and has officially supported 3rd parties.

Do not get on to others claiming they were over dramatic. The message was clear.
I agree 110%.  Assuming that latter comment was directed to me:  I did my darndest to NOT sound like I was pointing fingers, but apparently didn't do good enough.  Note the term "rants" in my screen name.   Wink  That was just venting a bit.  I went back and reread the beginning of this thread and noticed that I'm not the only one with 20-20 vision!

-Matt
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Crow550
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« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2014, 06:14:04 pm »

I was directing it at all the people criticizing those who were going with other services because of the message.

Yes it seemed Google Voice was still working on Obi but all other methods were patched to not use Google Voice anymore so it seemed that any day the G-Voice calling with G-Talk would end.

Kinda rude to refer to these people as claiming the sky is falling....

Again for all intents and purposes it seemed like it was going away and those few who were still using it would have a rude awaking at any time.

I always assumed that Google would eventually add real 3rd party support or there own ATA device or something.

I myself don't own an Obi yet. As I use my Cell Phone at Home. However I get like 1-2 bars in parts of the House. I was using Wifi calling with GrooveIP but it was patched out and I was S.O.L.

So for important calls I was tethered to my PC lol! Unless I was out and about of course.

Now I did help someone setup an Obi box and since they are not experts when it comes to this kinda stuff I had to help them setup Phone Power as it appeared that G-Voice calling with G-Talk was going away at anytime.

Keep in mind this was always a hack too. So once more they said they were closing off this hack that 3rd parties were using. Yes Obi was still working but there just wasn't a guarantee it would keep working.

Many like myself assumed that once Android calling was added that would be the end of XMPP.

However it appears what I also assumed did come true for Google offering real support for 3rd Parties. Wink

Now to see if Phone Power can be canceled without any fees or whatever. As you can't even check your voicemail on the phone through Phone Power from what I heard without using *67 but if you block unknown numbers in Google Voice you're well S.O.L.... Unless you check on a PC or a Tablet....
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 06:18:08 pm by Crow550 » Logged
GH-UpNorth
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Posts: 8


« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2014, 06:32:32 pm »

On my Obi-110, since early May, I've been using PhonePower ( one year unlimited ) on SP1, with incoming calls routed from GV, and with my GV number spoofed in PP.  Would it be possible to keep this as is on SP1 and set up SP2 with GV for outgoing calls using the new authorization for SP2?  PhonePower works great most of the time, but on rare occasions, to specific area codes, I have some trouble with PP outgoing calls, and the option to use GV directly on SP2 would be a nice alternative.  I don't want to give up PP, as I've paid for a year unlimited.  Thanks
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SteveInWA
Hero Member & Beta Tester
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Posts: 3943



« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2014, 06:40:38 pm »

Guys, I'm not nearly as smart (or informed) as Steve, but I did a text search through Obi's announcement and did NOT find the words "supported by Google" or any variant thereof in the same sentence.  I might go back and reread Steve's (fantastic) post with a fine-toothed comb, but my original read was that Google is *tolerating* the use of older protocol by Obi (now permitted given the security fix). 

As I see it, there is no indication that *anything* was formally approved or supported by Google.  Like Steve said, the "approved" word seems to be Obi's clever way of assuring its customers that GV calling works on their device.   This shouldn't be read as Google green-lighting/approving/condoning/shaking-hands-with/etc. Obi in any meaningful sense.  In other words, it works as long as it works.  Correct, Steve?

-Matt

PS  On a personal note, I *am* somewhat peeved at all the SKY-IS-FALLING language on various forums late last year.  None of this is Steve's fault (who I first met on the GV boards, where he does the work of ten men), but his efforts to step in and remind people about the looming "deadline" had rational people like me assuming that Google's date was for real.  He was just doing the best he could with the information available at the time.  Still, A LOT OF PEOPLE "needlessly" fretted and in many cases, end up purchasing a VOIP plan they *may not* have needed (this is, BTW, called "counterfactual reasoning", AKA "hindsight is always 20/20" or if you prefer, Monday-morning-quarterbacking).  In fact, a year from now we may discover that we ALL could have just kept the GV status quo and it all would have worked out.  Again, not pointing my finger at anyone in particular -- just bemoaning the fact that on September 11, 2014 the "OBi is losing GV" story is a lot less compelling than it was last year at this time.  Sometimes the confusion and uncertainty is a reasonable byproduct of the circumstances, and sometimes it's just...totally avoidable. 

Matt, thanks so much for the words of support; it means a lot.

I've posted more comments elsewhere on this forum (the unfortunate side effect of this being such a big part of the whole OBi experience).  But, to respond to your points about my recent remarks, I was (and still am) under NDA with Google and also had been discussing this in private with Obihai, so I simply couldn't comment in more detail.  I described the new OAUTH 2.0 authentication solution right after Obihai released it into their production firmware, but, until Chee Chew at Google publicly acknowledged the agreement today, that's all anyone knew as far as how long it would last.  So, yes, I was giving Sherman and the Obihai guys some grief over the use of the term "approved", and they couldn't talk about what that really meant until yesterday.  Google's remarkable announcement today (remarkable given their usual secrecy), is icing on the proverbial cake.

So yes:  "Official" and "Approved" means this:  Google told the third parties to get the heck off of their users' accounts via direct user name/password means.  Obihai did the software and firmware engineering to use Google's approved OAUTH 2.0 API, and Google said "That's a good thing, thanks, and good for you.  We officially approve of you using this method to access our service."  As for the anticipated question:  no, I have no idea if the service itself will continue to use XMPP, or be migrated to WebRTC, but really, who cares.  Just use it with Google's blessing, and enjoy.

For your own security, and to ensure uninterrupted operation of GV on your OBi, if you haven't already done so, delete the old GV SP configuration(s), log into the associated GV account on your computer's web browser, open another tab, go to the OBiTALK portal, and re-configure GV using OAUTH authentication.  It will download the necessary firmware as needed.  There is no benefit to maintaining the old setup.
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Crow550
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« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2014, 07:12:46 pm »

This needs to be put in it's own pinned thread.

Plus E-mailed to all Obi users. Wink
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