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Vestalink Now Charging To Send Faxes

Started by ceg3, December 31, 2014, 01:26:40 PM

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ceg3

WOW  Just to show how desperate Vestalink has become I sent the first and only fax I have used them to send in the past 8 months and it now costs 14 cents a page.  They do at least include a link to Faxzero.

zorlac

Man, that Chinese fire drill of service providers early this year looks to have run its course, so glad I dragged my feet.  :D
Happy New Year!

Ansextra

I signed up for Voipo about a year ago and have not regretted it.  I have GV as well but I get lots more features with Voipo and including taxes costs ~$8/month.  That is well within my budget.

aopisa

I am very much looking forward to dumping Vestalink when I my term is up in two months. Wish I had not ported my GV number, but the voip line is used as a backup to my mobile and for e911 service. So, an new GV number will not cause a lot of hardship for me.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Vestlink in March since I think that is when they had a big influx of new customers due to the GV cutoff misinformation campaign spread by Obi. Wonder how many customers will jump ship? I can't see $69 a year for something I rarely use and get for practically free.

LTN1

Quote from: aopisa on January 02, 2015, 11:52:12 AM
It will be interesting to see what happens to Vestlink in March since I think that is when they had a big influx of new customers due to the GV cutoff misinformation campaign spread by Obi. Wonder how many customers will jump ship? I can't see $69 a year for something I rarely use and get for practically free.

Why use such bitter and misleading words? I don't think Obihai intended to mislead anyone that GV was going to cut off XMPP. That was what Google Voice was warning. It was correct information not misinformation. Thankfully negotiations between Obihai and GV reversed Google's intention to cut off XMPP and allow us all to continue to use Obi devices with GV. I, for one, am thankful for the reverse course--which I'm sure costs Obihai some money to be able to have GV allow continued usage.

aopisa

Quote from: LTN1 on January 02, 2015, 12:22:43 PM
Quote from: aopisa on January 02, 2015, 11:52:12 AM
It will be interesting to see what happens to Vestlink in March since I think that is when they had a big influx of new customers due to the GV cutoff misinformation campaign spread by Obi. Wonder how many customers will jump ship? I can't see $69 a year for something I rarely use and get for practically free.

Why use such bitter and misleading words? I don't think Obihai intended to mislead anyone that GV was going to cut off XMPP. That was what Google Voice was warning. It was correct information not misinformation. Thankfully negotiations between Obihai and GV reversed Google's intention to cut off XMPP and allow us all to continue to use Obi devices with GV. I, for one, am thankful for the reverse course--which I'm sure costs Obihai some money to be able to have GV allow continued usage.

I do not think my comments are misleading, it was Obi that was misleading. I am not going to drag up this argument again beyond that Obi stated that XMPP would no longer available to Obi users after March 2014 and customers needed to find other services period. This was not actually the case if you go back and read the original blog post from Google carefully.

I will take the blame for not doing due diligence on Google's vague statement before switching away from GV. At the same time, I think Obi should have also done due diligence before telling their customers something that was definitively not true. 

LTN1

What I would agree with you is Google's vague statement here: https://plus.google.com/+NikhylSinghal/posts/MjyncJEbzxK

What is clear is that GV wanted third party applications (Obihai included) to stop making unauthorized use of their services and it had to end by May 15, 2014. Let's take the "XMPP" out of the equation--as too many people are hung up on that term which I agree isn't in the original Google blog. The result is the same...third party applications that were unauthorized to use GV services were given a cease and desist with a deadline of May 15, 2014.

It was assumed that Google would prevent those applications or hardware from using GV--through unauthorized methods--which posed a risk to the user's security (according to Google). In retrospect, it didn't appear that Google carried out that threat (as of yet) but that was the reasonable impression back then.

Obihai had a reasonable understanding of Google's cease and desist warning. No company whose primary business model was to market a device using primarily GV is going to purposefully destroy themselves economically. While Obihai's wording may have gone beyond what Google had originally intended--the end result is the same...stop using our (Google's) technology in an unauthorized manner or we will stop it for you on May 15, 2014.

Obihai thus had to make their announcement of the impending May 15, 2014 deadline, all the while negotiating with Google in order to be approved. There were no guarantees that Google would approve Obihai or any other third party requesting to use its services so as a business, Obihai could not have unilaterally changed its warning that the services with GV would cease.

Fortunately, Google didn't stop the third party access (probably because of the negotiations behind the scenes) and a settlement was reached in August of 2014 allowing for such usage, albeit in a more secure manner.

When a business like GV sends a cease and desist letter, it was prudent for third parties like Obihai to react and err on the side of caution--hence, their warning of the May 15, 2014 GV with Obi cessation deadline.

The feeling of not getting something for free for perpetuity (after paying $50) seems unfair in an entitlement society but such guarantees were never advertised by Obihai or Google Voice. People will use the service until it is no longer allowed by the discretion of the right holder (here, Google). No one is entitled to anything that a private corporation like Google provides. If one doesn't like it, one votes with one's pocketbook.

aopisa

#7
I mostly agree with what you say here. However, I would not call a comment buried in an obscure blog post a true cease and desist letter.

We do not know what went on behind the scenes between Google and Obihai during that time and I suppose it was prudent to direct their users away from GV, but it was not entirely accurate. Obihai could have told us that Google insisted that they had to stop using their service on their devices. They could have suggested that users find another service or continue at their own risk. Instead they seemed to be saying that we would have little Obi bricks on the 15th if we did not make a switch.

"Recently Google announced the end of support for XMPP based calling with Google Voice. This will happen on May 15, 2014 – that's over 6 months from today. Since your OBi device uses XMPP to communicate with Google servers, the end of support will directly impact how your OBi device can be used with your Gmail account and its associated Google Voice phone number. Unfortunately, you will no longer be able to use the Google Voice communication service to make calls using the phone connected to your OBi device.  Also, the ability to receive calls to your Google Voice number, directly from Google's service, will not be possible."

Obi made it sound like your device would stop working on May 15. Google said they wanted developers to stop using their service on May 15. There is no mention by Google that they were going to pull the plug. They just directed developers to stop using it on May 15. By extension, I suppose that meant users of these developers' devices should also stop, but again that is never fully inferred by Google.

I think this is where Obihai disseminated false information either willingly or not. They were not really quite upfront as to why they were telling all of us to stop using GV on their devices.  

Again, I will take the final responsibility for not delving deeper before switching to Vestalink, but I believed that Obihai was giving me the full story when their wording seemed to infer that my device would go dead on May 15.

And yes, in a few months I will be voting with my pocketbook by moving away from Vestalink.

Thank you.

LTN1

The Google blog isn't the cease and desist letter--but I can only assume that Obihai received an actual cease and desist letter from Google in 2013 about its then unauthorized used of GV via their device. While we may never know (unless Obihai wants to share), the cease and desist letter likely contained language of XMPP and the May 15, 2014 deadline (since all the other third party applications like GrooveIP, etc. also immediately gave notice to their users in the same way that Obihai did). I would be quite clear to Obihai and other third party unauthorized users if I were the general counsel for Google. I suspect this was the case but the details of the cease and desist hasn't been made known publicly--and is moot at this point after the settlement between Obihai and Google. And yes...I play a lawyer in real life. That's why I have a problem with your language about Obihai...it is actionable if they should choose to correct you.

jra85

Does sending/receiving faxes with Vestalink over VoIP (and not their faxing web portal) work? I've heard of success with fax over Google Voice, and was curious if Vestalink was as successful. And if so, does Vestalink somehow know you're sending a fax with their service over VoIP and still charge the same 14 cents/page that they do through their web portal anyway?

I'm currently on an Obi200 with GV, but my parents are still on Vonage and are interested in switching over to Obi for the significantly lower rate, but would prefer to still have Caller ID. I know Vestalink appears to be on rocky footing right now and I have some concerns about porting the home number they've had for over 20 years to Vestalink, but that's a different concern altogether!

Angelc19

Quote from: jra85 on February 13, 2015, 07:24:29 AM
Does sending/receiving faxes with Vestalink over VoIP (and not their faxing web portal) work? I've heard of success with fax over Google Voice, and was curious if Vestalink was as successful. And if so, does Vestalink somehow know you're sending a fax with their service over VoIP and still charge the same 14 cents/page that they do through their web portal anyway?

I'm currently on an Obi200 with GV, but my parents are still on Vonage and are interested in switching over to Obi for the significantly lower rate, but would prefer to still have Caller ID. I know Vestalink appears to be on rocky footing right now and I have some concerns about porting the home number they've had for over 20 years to Vestalink, but that's a different concern altogether!
My rate went in January  from $25.00  for 500 min. to 80.00 for 2000 min, which I don't need. I noticed new price now is 50.00 for 2000 min., which isn't bad.
I use the fax service several times a month, so $ .14 a page isn't bad. I know you can't use a fax machine with VL.

Lavarock7

I hope I get this all right..

The guy who started UKDDI.COM (the free UK phone numbers) is a principal at TelNG. TelNG has a new service, free faxes.

https://www.faxx.us/#/home
My websites: Kona Coffee: http://itskona.com and Web Hosting: http://planetaloha.info<br />A simplified Voip explanation: http://voip.planet-aloha.com