Suggestions for SOHO setup

[Roger]

I having been using various Obi devices for my home phone for a number of years now, but I am looking for advise on how to set up a SOHO with five or so extensions for my church.  There are a number of options I have thought about and I am looking for advice from more experienced users.

Option 1: Buy five Obi 1032 and give them each a GV line.

Option 2: Run an Asterisk/FreePBX server with any kind of IP Phones attached to it.  I have tested RasPBX and got it working pretty well.

Option 3: I just heard about linking Obi devices, so I could buy a bunch of Obi 202s and use the existing phones, each with a GV line.

Besides advice on the above options, I have two other questions:

1) Any comments on the Asterisk voicemail versus letting GV do the VM for me?
2) Obi seems to have official GV support.   To me that seems safer going forward because Asterisk probably uses XMPP to connect to GV and could stop working anytime?  Is that true?

[SteveInWA]

I having been using various Obi devices for my home phone for a number of years now, but I am looking for advise on how to set up a SOHO with five or so extensions for my church.  There are a number of options I have thought about and I am looking for advice from more experienced users.

Option 1: Buy five Obi 1032 and give them each a GV line.  No, don't do that.  GV is not intended for business use (even church business), and to prevent this sort of abuse, you'd need to assign a unique, previously-unused forwarding phone to each GV account.  If you want to buy five OBi 1032s, then use your option #2 with any SIP VoIP service provider, not with GV.

Option 2: Run an Asterisk/FreePBX server with any kind of IP Phones attached to it.  I have tested RasPBX and got it working pretty well.  Using a PBX is a good way to go.  Get some SIP trunks and get 'er done.

Option 3: I just heard about linking Obi devices, so I could buy a bunch of Obi 202s and use the existing phones, each with a GV line.  Again, you could do that too, using a SIP ITSP's trunks, but a OBi 504 or a PBX would be a cleaner solution, vs. several 202s.

Whatever you choose, think about long-term support.  Are you willing to sign up to be the church's telephone repair and management person?  The simplest solutions will save your sanity, so your prayers can be about more meaningful things than "Oh Lord, why did I ever sign up for this?!"

Besides advice on the above options, I have two other questions:

1) Any comments on the Asterisk voicemail versus letting GV do the VM for me?
2) Obi seems to have official GV support.   To me that seems safer going forward because Asterisk probably uses XMPP to connect to GV and could stop working anytime?  Is that true?

[LTN1]

I having been using various Obi devices for my home phone for a number of years now, but I am looking for advise on how to set up a SOHO with five or so extensions for my church.  There are a number of options I have thought about and I am looking for advice from more experienced users.

I would recommend a hybrid FortiVoice PBX system (compatible with both analog and SIP), or, if you are willing to an older generation PBX, the Talkswitch on eBay. Get one with SIP trunks for VoIP like Steve recommends--easier to grow into IP phones but at the same time, the hybrid analog compatibility will allow your church to use current analog phones for now.

I would recommend getting a FortiVoice 70 or Talkswitch 484vs or 488vs. All of these will have up to 4 analog phone lines and 8 analog extensions. The Fortivoice 70 and Talkswitch 488vs will have an additional 8 SIP trunks (basically 8 VoIP lines that you can set up with LocalPhone, CallCentric, etc.). If you want to keep it analog right now and use the OBi devices...stick the lines into the Fortivoice or Talkswitch analog lines and it will be just like sticking a POTS line there--that way, you can save on having to have a regular POTS line.

The Fortivoice 70 is around $1100. A second hand Talkswitch on eBay is going around $300 to $500.

[Roger]

I am curious why you would suggest a FortiVoice 70 for $1100 when for that money I could buy all five Obi 1032 and go straight to IP?  I am not trying to be smart, I am asking because I just don't know and want to make sure I am no missing something.  I have used Obi and I trust their products.  If I want to save money I could get a Grandstream GXP2160 for half as much as the Obi 1032.  I could create a setup with the RasPBX and 5 Grandstream phones that is 100% IP for under $600 in hardware.

[BigJim_McD]

Roger, 
As SteveINWA mentions, Google Voice is not intended for business use and I would not recommend GV for use as a telephony system for a church.

If you decide to go with the OBi202's, I suggest that you take a look at voip.ms.      https://voip.ms/

Voip.ms has a strong feature sets allowing numerous configuration options, reasonal rates and twenty five  DID POPs in twelve major US cities.  Also seven DID POPs in Canada and three in Europe.

I have found service on voip.ms to be very dependable and the features fun to play with. 

The following is copied from the voip.ms web site.

DID Routing
   SIP, IAX, SIP URI
   Ring Group
   Call Forwarding
   Callback
   Failover
   Voicemail
   Digital Receptionist
   Calling Queues
   Recording
   Time Condition
   DISA

Free/Unlimited Support Tickets and Live Chat
Clear, no-nonsense, simple to understand billing
All features included by default/available to all accounts
Use your own device, soft phone, Asterisk, PBX or switch
6 seconds billing increment
USA 48 Premium tier-1 @ 1¢ per minute ($0.01)
Canada starting as low as ½ ¢ per minute ($0.0052)
Canada Premium tier-1 @ 1¢ per minute ($0.01)
Free calls between VoIP.ms DID's
Free iNum Origination and Termination
Full SIP Broker support
Keep your number: VoIP.ms offers number portability
Connect as many phones as you wish with sub-accounts
Free calls to Toll-Free numbers (Termination)
Premium Quality Domestic and Toll free DIDs
International DIDs in over 30 countries
High Channel-Capacity DID's from $0.99 per month
Inbound calls from $0.01 / Toll free: $0.019
CNAM, Voicemail, e411, e911, Speed Dial and SIP URI's
True Canadian CNAM Pass-through (In/Out)
Digital Receptionist (IVR), Recordings, Calling Queues
Ring Groups, Callback, Failover destination, Call Forwarding
Detailed CDR also available in xls, csv, sql and xml
A to Z call termination (Worldwide Call Termination)
No volume commitment
Pay as you go pricing scheme
Very competitive rates
Customer support staff available via Live Chat
Free Asterisk Configuration support
Support available in English, French and Spanish
Flexible Dialing Rules

[LTN1]

I am curious why you would suggest a FortiVoice 70 for $1100 when for that money I could buy all five Obi 1032 and go straight to IP?  I am not trying to be smart, I am asking because I just don't know and want to make sure I am no missing something.  I have used Obi and I trust their products.  If I want to save money I could get a Grandstream GXP2160 for half as much as the Obi 1032.  I could create a setup with the RasPBX and 5 Grandstream phones that is 100% IP for under $600 in hardware.

You can do whatever you want of course. As to why you focused on the FortiVoice 70 for $1100 and not the Talkswitch 488vs for $300 (I stated to $500 to not disappoint if the ones currently listed for $300 is sold) shows me that you think you know more than you do. I had to give you the options in case you wanted cutting edge technology.

You can Google these devices yourself and know their capabilities but suffice it to say that when you stated a church needed around 5 extensions, I looked at it from a business system with voicemails, auto-attendant when the church is not open, more sophisticated call routing systems, emergency voicemail notification after hours, etc. With 5 extensions, you can get by with an OBi202, having two lines used with such a PBX system (as long as no more than 2 lines are being used at the same time). You can even use the current analog phones.

If you need to grow, adding another OBi200 or OBi202 is easily done. What the OBis will do is they serve as the telephone lines for the PBX system, routing calls to the specific extension professionally, and if no one is there, to the church employee's voicemail, etc. The amount of sophisticated call handling in a professional PBX system like a Talkswitch can do so much more than what the OBis can do with Google Voice. They both compliment each other in a business setting as one will utilize the capabilities of the other.

What you are trying to set up, piece by piece through the various OBi components are individual homelike systems in a business setting. It's doable, but I know for certain that a much more professional system can be done for around the same cost as what you are envisioning. Make Google your friend--search and read.

[Ostracus]

I assume that's why a Obi504 for example wasn't suggested. Not PBXey enough.

[SteveInWA]

I assume that's why a Obi504 for example wasn't suggested. Not PBXey enough.

Um, I did suggest a 504 (or in his case, he'd probably need a 508):

http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=9671.msg64109#msg64109

This is what happens with Male Answer Syndrome.  We all offer our advice, for whatever it's worth, and then the person asking for advice doesn't take any of it.   

[Roger]

I am feeling a little beat up on, but I don't mind it; if it means I get some good advice along the way.  I suspect that I know less than I think I know, that's why I am trying to ask the right questions.

Based on the suggestions so far I think I am going with the Asterisk/FreePBX for the phone lines and an Obi202 for the fax/security system.  The current phones are really old and the workers don't like them, so I don't yet see the benefit of adding an Obi504 or a Talkswitch to the mix (but please correct me if you think I am missing something).

So, I am taking your advice Steve.  It has been less than 24 hours since I asked the question.  Why did you jump to the conclusion that I was not only not taking your advice, but not anyone's advice?  I really appreciate everyone's advice.

[LTN1]

I am feeling a little beat up on, but I don't mind it; if it means I get some good advice along the way.  I suspect that I know less than I think I know, that's why I am trying to ask the right questions.

Based on the suggestions so far I think I am going with the Asterisk/FreePBX for the phone lines and an Obi202 for the fax/security system.  The current phones are really old and the workers don't like them, so I don't yet see the benefit of adding an Obi504 or a Talkswitch to the mix (but please correct me if you think I am missing something).

So, I am taking your advice Steve.  It has been less than 24 hours since I asked the question.  Why did you jump to the conclusion that I was not only not taking your advice, but not anyone's advice?  I really appreciate everyone's advice.

Your response is good...it shows that you have a teachable spirit. Your proposed solution is acceptable, though probably not the best solution. Steve's main advice, at least from my viewpoint, was this:

Whatever you choose, think about long-term support.  Are you willing to sign up to be the church's telephone repair and management person?  The simplest solutions will save your sanity, so your prayers can be about more meaningful things than "Oh Lord, why did I ever sign up for this?!"

What ever your solution, it must be the simplest to maintain, even if it costs a little more--especially when it comes to churches (unless its a bigger church with more resources). People come and go--as may you. You want a system that is easily configurable and user friendly (not by your standards but by a non-technical person standard) should you be unavailable. FreePBX systems, from what I understand, are for enthusiasts, willing to learn. As long as someone like you is around...wonderful.

[SteveInWA]

I am feeling a little beat up on, but I don't mind it; if it means I get some good advice along the way.  I suspect that I know less than I think I know, that's why I am trying to ask the right questions.

Based on the suggestions so far I think I am going with the Asterisk/FreePBX for the phone lines and an Obi202 for the fax/security system.  The current phones are really old and the workers don't like them, so I don't yet see the benefit of adding an Obi504 or a Talkswitch to the mix (but please correct me if you think I am missing something).

So, I am taking your advice Steve.  It has been less than 24 hours since I asked the question.  Why did you jump to the conclusion that I was not only not taking your advice, but not anyone's advice?  I really appreciate everyone's advice.

Sorry, Roger; I was just being my curmudgeonly self.  I was mainly musing about the sociology of online forums and male behavior, wherein somebody asks a question, we pile on with answers, (which is a good thing, don't get me wrong), giving the person asking the question a lot of options, and potentially sending that person into information overload, and then no clear action path emerges.  Sometimes, it has a happy and collaborative result; sometimes, it's a CF!

Your plan sounds like a good option to me.

[Roger]

I am just glad I didn't hurt anyone's feelings.  I don't want a maintenance headache either, so I am going to try to keep it simple.  For now I am enjoying learning the RasPBX and once it is configured it shouldn't need too much extra work.

Here is what I am thinking is the final plan: outgoing and incoming lines through Callcentric with 3 channels each, which should be plenty of capacity for 5 people.  Callcentric has VM too, so I could almost do everything I need just with Callcentric, but without a PBX I cannot transfer calls.  So I will run my RasPBX for the transferring, IVR, and voicemail.  If I ever get in a jam with the RasPBX I can revert to just using Callcentric and they will still have a better system than they have today.  At any time if they are not happy with me or I am not happy with them, they should be able to switch to a cloud provider without having to buy any new equipment.

[LTN1]

I am just glad I didn't hurt anyone's feelings.  I don't want a maintenance headache either, so I am going to try to keep it simple.  For now I am enjoying learning the RasPBX and once it is configured it shouldn't need too much extra work.

Here is what I am thinking is the final plan: outgoing and incoming lines through Callcentric with 3 channels each, which should be plenty of capacity for 5 people.  Callcentric has VM too, so I could almost do everything I need just with Callcentric, but without a PBX I cannot transfer calls.  So I will run my RasPBX for the transferring, IVR, and voicemail.  If I ever get in a jam with the RasPBX I can revert to just using Callcentric and they will still have a better system than they have today.  At any time if they are not happy with me or I am not happy with them, they should be able to switch to a cloud provider without having to buy any new equipment.

If you want to keep call costs down, instead of 2 Callcentric accounts, I would have 1 Localphone account (as primary) and 1 CallCentric account. Localphone rates are much cheaper than Callcentric and it has free incoming calls. You probably want the primary account to be something like Localphone (or equivalent) as most of the time, only 1 or 2 lines are being used...and you want to use the least expensive lines (Toll free calling is charged by Callcentric but free for Localphone). Localphone has 2 outgoing channels and 5 incoming channels. For 911 calls, you can route it through the Callcentric account as Localphone doesn't offer e911. A US monthly subscription of 5,000 outgoing minutes for Localphone is only $5--800 minutes for only $1.60, etc.--or you can pay by the minute .5 cents (whereas Callcentric is more like 2 cents). Just suggestions of examples but of course, you can use any reasonably rate providers.

[Roger]

Thanks for the heads up about localphone.  For the most part I just use GV though I used callwithus before that.  Taking a look at the callcentric website (and I am sure others) I was surprised how much functionality they built into their website.  They have extensions, call treatment, voice mail, etc.  Its almost as much functionality as a simple PBX and there is no monthly hosting fee (granted you cannot transfer from one extension to another).  Today it is much better to be a phone customer than a phone service supplier.   

[LTN1]

Thanks for the heads up about localphone.  For the most part I just use GV though I used callwithus before that.    

I referenced the Localphone option for your church. Your references to using GV and Callwithus was probably for yourself. But if you ever wanted to use GV (which is a valid option) for your church, get a hybrid pbx so you can use those OBi/GV lines. That way, the church calling can be totally free.

If it was me advising a church of a few hundred or less, I would get a hybrid pbx, hook up an OBi202 with two lines for most of the calling needs and include additional Localphone and Callcentric accounts for call out overflow. Most of the time you will likely never use it...so the church would only have to put a very small deposit in those accounts for pay as you go (for Localphone it's $1). If most of the calls go through the OBi/GV (including the fax which a church rarely uses), it would really keep ongoing costs down. The main costs is the original outlay of the hybrid pbx system (by hybrid I mean one that handles both analog and SIP lines) and whatever phones the church would like to upgrade to (since they don't like their old phones). If you don't want to deal with wiring, especially in far away rooms, get the wireless LAN extension points--but of course then those extension points would require IP phones and not analog phones.

What size church is this (and church denomination) if I may ask?

[azrobert]

you cannot transfer from one extension to another 

The OBi can handle the transfer.
From the OBi Admin Guide:

Call Transfer (Attended)
You can transfer a call to a third party using the attended transfer capabilities of the OBi. To use Attended Call Transfer, while in a call with the party who will be transferred, press the "flash" button or depress and release the switch hook on your phone. You will be presented with a second dial tone. The party who will be transferred will be placed on hold. Dial the transfer target. When the transfer target answers, you will be able to inform them that you intend to connect them with the party on hold. At this point press the "flash" button or depress and release the switch hook on your phone. This will connect the party to be transferred, the transfer target and yourself. You can continue to talk together, as this is now a 3-way call, or you can hang up the phone and the other two parties will remain connected.

[Roger]

I should have been more clear; yes the callwithus was just for personal use.  The church is a local UCC with an average attendance of about 125 people.  Initially I was going to use  two GV lines, but it was pointed out that that would be an abuse of GV's terms of use.  GV has been good to me so I wouldn't want to abuse their service.  As this thread shows there are many ways to do this and I have to sit down think about which is best from cost perspective and maintenance perspective.

I have always wanted to learn more about this stuff and that is why I have been building a RasPBX server.  I don't mind the extra work now because I am learning, but I don't want to have to run over there every time the Pi freezes up or the SD card craps out.  Maybe it will be very reliable, maybe it won't.  I don't know.  I like the Obi devices with the online configuration.  Decisions... Decision...

[LTN1]

Initially I was going to use  two GV lines, but it was pointed out that that would be an abuse of GV's terms of use.  GV has been good to me so I wouldn't want to abuse their service. 

Don't worry about GV and using 4 GV lines. There are lots of people having 5 or 6 GV accounts...one for each member of their family. I wouldn't recommend having so many for a church because you need a forwarding number for each account--and that can be a hassle when using it in a church setting where people can come and go, etc. GV used to emphasize personal use but over the years, they know some small businesses are using it (real estate agents, etc.).

[LTN1]

The church is a local UCC with an average attendance of about 125 people. 

For a church this size (I actually know quite a bit about churches but I won't get into it), you would be lucky to have a secretary, full time senior pastor, part time associate and perhaps some type of part time youth worker. The rest are volunteers that aren't probably at the church like a day job. For a setting like this, I would have no more more than 4 lines, even if you decided to have from 5 to 10 extensions. It is unlikely that more than 2 or 3 lines are going to be used at one time. It's OK to have many more extensions for the purpose of personal voicemail for paid and unpaid workers but to have more than 3 or 4 lines for a church this size...it is unnecessary until there's more growth.

[Boykin]

If you like the OBi equipment, take a look at OBiPlus Premium.  You would need one 202 which would let have 4 sip lines, then you could get a 1032 for each person since you want new phones, and right now the subscription price of OBiPlus Premium is only 120.00 per year.  With OBiPlus Premium, you can have up to 12 extensions, 10 of those can be IP phones.

I am using OBiPlus Premium with one 202 with 3 1032s at home.  I have 2 GV lines, my cell phone via OBI BT, and a sip line from a local telephone company.