I have a new OBi202 that I bought 3 weeks ago, that I have been using with Google Voice. I have been disappointed with the voice quality on all of the calls (either incoming or outgoing) that I've been making on that device.
The problem is that there is a faint static-y or "buzzy" quality to what I hear when I am on a call. The best way I can describe it is that the voice quality sounds electronic, not natural like a landline phone should sound. I am not experiencing any delays or choppy sound though.
The dial tone sounds very clear--it's just the person's voice that is static-y.
I have a Panasonic KX-TGE470 cordless landline phone plugged into the OBi202's Phone1 port. This is a very high-rated telephone that is supposed to have excellent voice quality.
To rule out the telephone as being the problem though, I later went and bought a cheap AT&T TR1909 corded phone, and plugged it into the OBi202's Phone2 port (leaving the Panasonic phone plugged into the Phone1 port).
The call quality is slightly better on the AT&T phone, but I can still hear the static-y quality of voice call. It's just not quite as pronounced as with the Panasonic phone.
With either phone, the subtle static is enough to make the phone calls slightly annoying. The voice quality is better when using my smartphone to make calls, and I've never been that impressed with my smartphone's voice quality. The whole reason why I bought the OBi202 is so that I wouldn't have to use my smartphone inside the house.
My OBi202 is plugged directly into my router, an Asus RT-AC68U, via a cat6 ethernet cable.
I've played around with the QoS settings in my router, trying various ways to assign highest priority to the OBi202, but nothing has helped.
I've attached test results I ran today from Phonepower.com. I tried running the test first using a laptop computer via a 5.0 GHz WiFi connection that consistently gives me 300 Mbps download / 30 Mbps upload speeds, using Comcast's speed test website.
Then I ran the test using another laptop computer via an ethernet connection. The latter computer doesn't have a great network card in it, and is always far slower than my WiFi connection on the other laptop (weird, I know).
The attached results are from the WiFi-connected laptop.
When I re-ran the test using the Ethernet-connected laptop, the results were similar, but with a slightly lower Estimated MOS score of 4.0 (vs. 4.2 over WiFi), but a somewhat higher Download Consistency of Service of 49% (vs. 34% over WiFi). On either the WiFi or the Ethernet computer, the test returned green (acceptable) icons for all of the summary test areas.
Any suggestions would be most appreciated!
Dial **9 222 222 222 and listen to the announcement from 'Obiman'. How does he sound compared to the voices on your incoming calls?
Your stats are all good and would have no influence on voice quality?
Hi, and welcome to OBi-land!
Typically, the kind of noise you are hearing is unrelated to your internet connection's quality, unless the quality is really bad (below MOS 3.5 or so). Think of it like HDTV or HD Radio: it sounds and looks perfect, until it seriously degrades and/or quits completely.
It's more likely to be coming from your cordless phone, or some nearby electronic equipment, or, rarely, from a bad 12V power supply (the "wall wart").
You said that you tried a corded phone, but you left the cordless attached. Try completely unplugging the cordless phone base station's power brick, and unplug its phone cord from the OBi. Then, try some calls with only the corded phone plugged in. You can also try relocating the OBi a few meters away from whatever else is now next to it. Occasionally, people put the cordless phone base station right on top of, or right next to the OBi and/or their router, which can inject noise, too. Don't do that.
To bypass Google Voice, try calling the OBi echo test number **9 222 222 222 and listen for the noise.
Google Voice uses the G.711u PCM CODEC, on the "leg" between your OBi and their servers, which is lossless and should sound better than the best copper telephone line. There are other carriers in the call path. Sometimes, those carriers will start out the connection using a lower-quality CODEC, e.g. G.729, and then negotiate up to G.711 after a few seconds or more. In those cases, you may hear distortion for a while, and then it gets better. Try calling different locations around the country, (e.g. friends or numbers like the library or city hall or a local grocery store), and see if the call quality varies.
Thanks very much for the suggestions, guys.
I originally had my OBi202 inside a stereo system cabinet that has a lot of stereo components in it (though they have all been powered off while making phone calls). The cordless phone's base station was sitting on a different shelf in that cabinet. Both units were plugged into the same power strip, which had a lot of other things plugged into it.
So today I tried using a longer Ethernet cable, so that I could move both units to the opposite end of the room, about 12 feet away. I then plugged both units into a different wall outlet that has nothing else plugged into it. I then tried plugging in each phone--the cordless and the corded--into the OBi202 (separately, one at a time), and calling the OBi echo test number.
I made sure the cordless phone was unplugged--both from its power brick and from the OBi202--before trying the corded phone, as you suggested.
With the cordless phone, I still hear that static, and it's just as pronounced. I'm trying to think of a better way to describe the noise--it's not exactly static, but sort of a "scratchy" quality to the sound. It's very annoying.
Then I tried the corded phone. The sound is much clearer than with the cordless phone (like it was before, when it was located inside the stereo cabinet), but I do hear a sort of very faint screeching sound in the background behind "OBi Man's" voice. I am curious if any of you can tell me if that is what you hear on your own phones, or if you instead hear dead silence in the background, in between his words?
Returning the cordless phone to Amazon, to try exchanging it for a different model, will be a pain, so I don't want to do that until we rule out anything else that could be the cause of the problem.
I'm wondering if the noise is actually present on both the corded and the cordless phones, but the cordless phone is somehow amplifying the noise so that it is more perceptible on that phone?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated!
Dial **0 and let it ring until the Auto Attendant ('Obiwoman') answers. How does she sound on your two handsets? I hear less background "noise" on her than him.
You may be able to mitigate the static by reducing the level of the audio signal sent from the 202 to the handset. Physical Interfaces, Phone1 (or 2) Port, Port Settings, ChannelTxGain. Reducing the value there (more negative if already negative) gives lower volume from the handset earpiece
You can call the other Phone Port by dialing "#". This will eliminate any problem caused by the network.
Quote from: drgeoff on March 09, 2017, 10:06:38 AM
Dial **0 and let it ring until the Auto Attendant ('Obiwoman') answers. How does she sound on your two handsets? I hear less background "noise" on her than him.
You may be able to mitigate the static by reducing the level of the audio signal sent from the 202 to the handset. Physical Interfaces, Phone1 (or 2) Port, Port Settings, ChannelTxGain. Reducing the value there (more negative if already negative) gives lower volume from the handset earpiece
Thanks drgeoff, I tried your suggestions.
Calling that **0 number did result in less background noise (almost none), and OBiwoman's voice sounded a lot less scratchy than OBiman's voice did on the echo test number. The scratchy quality is still there, but barely perceptible.
Calling **0 using the corded phone sounds a bit better. It sounds very good actually, but not perfect.
I found the ChannelTxGain setting that you mentioned, in the advanced section of the web-based dashboard. It will not allow me to change the default value (-5). In fact, there is no setting on that entire page that I am able to change. The only things that can be changed on that page are selecting either of the two checkboxes next to each setting ("Device Default" or "OBiTalk Settings").
Changing the checkbox for that particular setting changes the setting from -5 to -2. So those are the only two values possible for that setting, unless I am missing something.
There are red exclamation point icons to the right of both the ChannelTxGain and ChannelRxGain fields. None of the other settings on that page show that icon. What does that mean?
I tried the -2 setting, just out of curiosity, and when I then tried to call the echo test number, I heard a very loud buzz, then it disconnected the call (before I even heard OBiman's voice), and then it went back to dial tone. I then tried the echo test again, and this time it connected. I heard his voice, with the same scratchy sound quality, sounding no different than on the -5 setting.
So I changed it back to -5, called Obiman again, and once again I heard the loud buzz and then back to the dial tone. I then tried Obiman again and this time it went through (with the same scratchiness).
I'd be very interested in trying a lower (more negative) setting, if there is a way to specify a particular value.
You need to have both boxes unticked at the right hand end of the line before you can change the value for that line. You can put any integer values between 6 and -12 in those gain fields. Tx controls volume heard by you. Rx controls level of what the OBi receives from your microphone and sends to the other end of the call.
The red exclamation marks merely indicate that the values are no longer the default ones.
Quote from: azrobert on March 09, 2017, 10:50:09 AM
You can call the other Phone Port by dialing "#". This will eliminate any problem caused by the network.
Excellent suggestion, thanks!
I tried that, and the sound quality through the receiver of the cordless phone (while speaking into the microphone of the corded phone) sounds very good. It wasn't perfect, but I didn't notice any substantial scratchiness.
It was rather hard to evaluate though, because the sound of my voice coming out of my mouth made it hard to isolate the sound of my voice coming out of the phone. So I was hearing my voice from two different places (live vs. transmitted), if that makes sense.
When you click submit the portal will download the settings to your OBi and the OBi will then reboot. It was probably that reboot that interrupted your test call and gave you dial tone again when the reboot completed.
The Admin Guide (http://www.obihai.com/OBiDeviceAdminGuide) says the gain values can be 12 to -12 and the defaults are both 0.
Quote from: drgeoff on March 09, 2017, 11:05:51 AM
You need to have both boxes unticked at the right hand end of the line before you can change the value for that line. You can put any integer values between 6 and -12 in those gain fields. Tx controls volume heard by you. Rx controls level of what the OBi receives from your microphone and sends to the other end of the call.
The red exclamation marks merely indicate that the values are no longer the default ones.
Ah, great, that's what I was missing, thanks.
Okay, I was now able to change the Tx setting all the way down to the minimum value of -12 (I also tried -10). I still hear the same scratchiness on OBiman.
Also, the exclamation points were there before I even starting playing around with the settings. I never changed the Rx setting at all (and didn't touch its checkboxes), and that field has an exclamation point. Does that mean anything significant?
Quote from: LotharX on March 09, 2017, 11:16:21 AMI never changed the Rx setting at all (and didn't touch its checkboxes), and that field has an exclamation point. Does that mean anything significant?
That is strange and as per my edit to previous post the defaults are 0.
Quote from: drgeoff on March 09, 2017, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: LotharX on March 09, 2017, 11:16:21 AMI never changed the Rx setting at all (and didn't touch its checkboxes), and that field has an exclamation point. Does that mean anything significant?
That is strange and as per my edit to previous post the defaults are 0.
Very odd. The defaults I saw for Tx and Rx were -5 and -4, respectively.
Could those values have gotten changed automatically, in response to some detected problem with the connection?
Quote from: LotharX on March 09, 2017, 11:08:00 AM
It was rather hard to evaluate though, because the sound of my voice coming out of my mouth made it hard to isolate the sound of my voice coming out of the phone. So I was hearing my voice from two different places (live vs. transmitted), if that makes sense.
You can put one handset by a TV or stereo. It might sound like you're in a tunnel, but you should be able to hear the scratchiness. It would be better to get another body on the other handset. I forgot to suggest unplugging the OBi202 from the network before testing.
Quote from: azrobert on March 09, 2017, 11:51:51 AMYou can put one handset by a TV or stereo. It might sound like you're in a tunnel, but you should be able to hear the scratchiness. It would be better to get another body on the other handset. I forgot to suggest unplugging the OBi202 from the network before testing.
Great idea. I tried that using my home audio system, which is a surround 5.1 system. I set down the microphone of the corded phone right in front of the center channel speaker, then set the system to TV, and turned the stereo receiver's volume down to a level that approximated normal speech. I disconnected the Ethernet cable from the OBi202 (which I did do earlier, but thanks for mentioning that), and then dialed **0 so I could pick up on my cordless phone.
Then I took the cordless handset into a room where I could not hear the stereo speakers at all.
The sound was somewhat electronic, not like listening to a live human, but it was good enough so that I couldn't discern any scratchiness.
I then got the idea to reconnect the OBi202 to the network, then call a business I know that has an automated attendant answer the line (using the cordless phone). That sound was very clear.
What seems to be happening is that anytime I call a phone that has any sort of line noise (like calling somebody's cell phone, or calling somebody who doesn't have a very good telephone, or calling OBiman), the noise is getting "mixed into" the voice transmission, for lack of a better way to describe it. It causes the voice to become very scratchy and extremely annoying--bad enough so that I have a hard time understanding the whole conversation. If the other party has a crystal-clear telephone, then I don't hear the scratchiness.
So we're back to the question of how to fix it? Is there any other setting in the OBi202's dashboard that would be worth experimenting with?
UPDATE: I bought another brand of cordless phone today (an AT&T), just to find out if the cordless Panasonic phone was the problem.
The scratchiness is still there when calling OBiman on the echo test. If anything, it's even worse on the new AT&T phone, but only when using its cordless handset.
The AT&T phone also has a corded handset on the base unit. OBiman sounds fine (not great, but acceptable) on that handset.
So it seems that the problem is only pronounced with cordless handsets, no matter what brand of cordless phone I use. Why would that be the case? Does the OBi202 have some peculiarity that would cause noise over DECT 6.0 radio signals?
Why do you expect that a cordless handset will sound as clear as a corded handset? Even though modern DECT cordless phones use digital audio communications, it's still a radio, and it's going to introduce some noise. Also, consider the price: you're not buying an "audiophile" product when you buy an inexpensive cordless phone -- they've "value engineered" it down to the lowest possible manufacturing cost.
I think you are after unattainable perfection at that price point.
Quote from: SteveInWA on March 10, 2017, 04:50:47 PM
Why do you expect that a cordless handset will sound as clear as a corded handset? Even though modern DECT cordless phones use digital audio communications, it's still a radio, and it's going to introduce some noise. Also, consider the price: you're not buying an "audiophile" product when you buy an inexpensive cordless phone -- they've "value engineered" it down to the lowest possible manufacturing cost.
I think you are after unattainable perfection at that price point.
I've used cordless telephones before over POTS lines, and those were years before the technology that's available today. I've never heard noise like this before. If you could hear what I'm hearing, you'd understand... the noise is so bad that it's hard to understand the person I am speaking to at times.
This goes way beyond the simple limitations of a cordless handset. There's definitely some sort of problem with my connection.
I've also used cordless phones, with my old Comcast VoIP connection in my previous house, and it's always sounded crystal clear to me.
Just out of curiosity, if anybody reading this has a good-quality cordless phone, please try this test for me... disconnect the ethernet cable from your Obi, then dial ***4. I am curious if the sound is reasonably clear, or if you hear any sort of distortion to OBiwoman's voice?
That ***4 test is pretty meaningless. The voice you are hearing is digitally-assembled and compressed, and yes, it sounds fuzzy. The only valid test is to call another live human being on another telephone number and have a conversation. Try a couple of different calls to different people who have some form of digital phone service (from their cable company or a quality VoIP service provider).
You can sign up for SIP VoIP phone service with one of the a la carte (no monthly plan) providers and compare their service to Google Voice. A few bucks and an hour of your time for that test compared to days worth of posts so far could be a quick and useful comparison.
If you want to get esoteric about testing, you could find another 12VDC power adapter from some other gizmo you have laying around, and swap it for the one that came with the OBi. Or, just give up and return or exchange the OBi.
I have a 202, a bunch of 200s that I manage for friends, a 1022 and a 1032. I don't hear any unusual distortion in any of the calls. I have an old Panasonic DECT 6.0 cordless phone and a cheap hardwired phone attached to the 202, and they sound fine to me. FWIW, I settled on -3dB for ChannelTxGain and ChannelRxGain. Overdriving the amplifier in the phone by setting the gain too high will cause distortion, and setting the gain too low will cause poor signal-to-noise ratio.
Finally, you can look at your OBi's local web interface (access via the IP address, not via the OBiTALK web portal) during a phone call, under the Status-->Call Status section, and view the CODEC in use. If it isn't G.711 after some potential re-negotiation up or down with G.729, then that would cause your symptom (G.729 can sound distorted and scratchy compared to G.711, which should sound like the best POTS call you've heard). Don't make conclusions based on calling one number, as that number may have a sub-par call route.
Thanks for that latest reply, Steve, that was particularly helpful.
I checked the CODEC during a call, and it is reading as G.711U for both Tx and Rx.
Shortly after I made that test, somebody happened to call my Google Voice number, and I picked up on my Panasonic cordless handset. The call was so scratchy that I could barely understand anything that the caller was saying. I probably understood maybe 60% of his words. This is a really severe problem, and my OBi202 is now pretty much useless using a cordless telephone.
I'd be willing to entertain the possibility of buying a high-end business VoIP telephone, but it just doesn't seem to me that I should need to go to such an expense to get a decent cordless VoIP call quality. My whole reason for buying the OBi202 (and using Google Voice) was to save some money on my telephone expenses.
I did contact OBi tech support via email yesterday about this issue. They ran diagnostics and said that my "OBi is normal and the internet connectivity is good."
They said that some sort of wireless interference from some other device might make my OBi sound scratchy. I have a whole lot of electronic devices in my house, including a lot of WiFi-enabled home automation devices, so if that's the issue, it could be anything.
They suggested that I try a cordless VTECH phone, saying that it should be working very well with the OBi. I am wary of buying yet another cordless phone, but I will if we've ruled out everything else that I can try. I see that VTECH has a line of phones that have "HD Audio," and am wondering if one of those would make any difference, since they apparently use a wider range of frequencies.
I did try playing around with various Channel TxGain settings, but nothing is helping.
Take the OBi202 and the phone to a relative or friend's house and see if the scratchiness follows. I also have a Panasonic Dect 6.0 phone and the sound is clear.
Quote from: LotharX on March 11, 2017, 09:24:45 AM
They said that some sort of wireless interference from some other device might make my OBi sound scratchy. I have a whole lot of electronic devices in my house, including a lot of WiFi-enabled home automation devices, so if that's the issue, it could be anything.
Probably one or more electronic devices in your house causing the issue. But to rule out that it is not your an electronic item interfering with your cordless phone in general...do you still have a landline connection near the OBi device? Sometimes, even if the landline connection is cut off, you may still be able to dial 911. If you can, try plugging the entire cordless phone directly into the landline RJ22 plug (without plugging it into the OBi of course) and see if you can call 911. And...if your call does go through to 911...don't hang up...just tell them you accidentally pressed the number and are OK.
If you can't call 911 (assuming you don't have a landline to test calling any other number) from a landline in your house, the only other suggestion I have (unless you already have such a phone) is to try buying a 5.8Ghz cordless phone to test (you can always return it if it doesn't work out).
Maybe this can shed some light.
Your OBi202 can record a call in progress. During a call, log in to its local GUI and click on Status, then on Call Status. In the left column of the orange strip you will see a Record button. Clicking that will prompt you for the filename to save the recording on your PC. The file has a .au extension and can be opened in programs such as VLC and Audacity.
Listen to the file and if it exhibits the noise post a copy so that we can hear it too.
If you don't hear the noise then that means it is being introduced in some later section of the 202 or the phone plugged in to it.
Thanks for the latest replies, azrobert, LTN1, and drgeoff.
@azrobert: I just moved into the state and don't have any friends or relatives here yet, so unfortunately I can't try taking my equipment to another house to test. Good suggestion though!
@LTN1: I don't have an active POTS jack in my house, so unfortunately I can't try that either. That would have been a very useful test though.
Your idea to try a 5.8 GHz phone is a good one, but I'd be concerned that that frequency band would interfere with my various 5 GHz WiFi devices, since the frequencies do overlap. A DECT 6.0 phone shouldn't conflict with any of my WiFi devices. Before I go out and buy yet another phone, which do you think would be a better next option, trying OBiTALK support's suggestion to try a VTECH phone (another DECT 6.0), or your suggestion to try a 5.8 GHz phone? Either way, I'm going to have to try to find a phone at some local store where I can return it, so my options may be limited.
@drgeoff: That's really useful knowing how to record a call, thanks! I just tried that by calling a couple of numbers that have automated attendants answer the phone, but the recorded voices on the other end weren't really high enough quality to show you the scratchiness that I'm hearing. I'll try that again next time I've speaking to a live person who doesn't mind me posting part of our conversation on the forum.
Quote from: LotharX on March 11, 2017, 12:41:42 PM
@LTN1: I don't have an active POTS jack in my house, so unfortunately I can't try that either. That would have been a very useful test though.
Your idea to try a 5.8 GHz phone is a good one, but I'd be concerned that that frequency band would interfere with my various 5 GHz WiFi devices, since the frequencies do overlap. A DECT 6.0 phone shouldn't conflict with any of my WiFi devices. Before I go out and buy yet another phone, which do you think would be a better next option, trying OBiTALK support's suggestion to try a VTECH phone (another DECT 6.0), or your suggestion to try a 5.8 GHz phone? Either way, I'm going to have to try to find a phone at some local store where I can return it, so my options may be limited.
If you are going to the store to buy a phone for testing anyway, and if you are able to do so temporarily (1 day) on a credit card, why not buy both types of phones just to test? It doesn't have to be expensive...just cordless using those frequencies...a 5.8 and 1.9 GHz.
Another thing you can do, if it is possible, to turn off every single electrical device (temporarily) except your modem and router, and see if that helps your current cordless. If it does, slowly turn on each off device--one at a time--and make calls each time--to see where the culprit is--if it is indeed one of them.
Quote from: LTN1 on March 11, 2017, 12:59:16 PMIf you are going to the store to buy a phone for testing anyway, and if you are able to do so temporarily (1 day) on a credit card, why not buy both types of phones just to test? It doesn't have to be expensive...just cordless using those frequencies...a 5.8 and 1.9 GHz.
Another thing you can do, if it is possible, to turn off every single electrical device (temporarily) except your modem and router, and see if that helps your current cordless. If it does, slowly turn on each off device--one at a time--and make calls each time--to see where the culprit is--if it is indeed one of them.
Great suggestions, LTN1, thanks!
I'm having a hard time finding any local stores that carry any decent VTech phones (I'm interested in trying one that has HD Audio), but I'll see what I can find.
Your suggestion to try isolating the device that might be causing the interference (assuming it is interference) is a good one.
What I'd like to do is to exchange the OBi202 for another one, but I'm not sure if OBiTalk will issue a return authorization, if their diagnostic tests on my connection didn't show any problem. I've had it for too long to return it to Amazon.
There are a very large number of people using Panasonic DECT 6.0 cordless phones with OBi products. AFAIK, nobody has reported symptoms like this. In my experience, Panasonic makes very high quality phones. I don't see how switching to Vtech would help at all. "HD Audio" isn't an official/standard term, but it generally refers to the use of wideband audio CODECs on pure VoIP calls (the entire call path is via VoIP, vs. the legacy public switched telephone network, or PSTN). The PSTN is limited to narrowband audio, and the OBi 200 series, designed to be used with standard telephones, doesn't support wideband CODECs. So, a "HD Audio" phone would not necessarily sound better, since it is limited to G.711, although it might have better quality audio amplifiers, microphones, speakers etc.
DECT 6.0 uses a dedicated 1.9GHz radio band, that is not used (well, legally) by any other equipment. Typical wireless devices using WiFi or Bluetooth run on 2.4GHz or 5.8GHz, and as far as home automation goes, I can't speak for the old crap (X-10 or Insteon) causing interference over power lines, but Z-Wave uses the 900MHz band, and Zigbee also uses the 915MHz band, so neither one should interfere with DECT.
I have a very large WiFi network with a large number of devices running on both WiFi bands, and I have a Z-Wave mesh network running about 16 devices, and no interference with my phones.
I gave you some options to explore beyond Google Voice. I suggest testing with a SIP ITSP, such as Callcentric, to compare call quality. Aside from that, if you can't find the problem, all I can suggest is to return the OBi for exchange or refund.
I actually meant to comment on your suggestion earlier to try another VoIP service like Callcentric, Steve, but forgot about it. That is high on my to-do list for tomorrow.
You've just made me re-think my idea to keep testing various cordless phone models, to try to get around the potential interference problem. I've grown weary of running around to local stores looking for other models that might work better. Any halfway-decent-quality cordless phone shouldn't be giving me the problems that I've been experiencing.
That's very useful to know that nobody has reported any issues similar to mine with Panasonic phones. I'd sure rather keep mine, since I can't return it now.
Based on everything that I've been reading about ObiTalk adapters, I'm doubting that their equipment is at fault, unless I just got a defective unit. It happens.
Quote from: SteveInWA on March 11, 2017, 03:58:15 PM
So, a "HD Audio" phone would not necessarily sound better, since it is limited to G.711, although it might have better quality audio amplifiers, microphones, speakers etc.
It's a gimmick. I've tried the phone. All "HD Audio" means, in this case, is preset equalizer settings. That's it.
I've tested VTech, AT&T, and Panasonic DECT 6.0 phones. I always return to Panasonic.
Quote from: Taoman on March 11, 2017, 04:17:59 PM
Quote from: SteveInWA on March 11, 2017, 03:58:15 PM
So, a "HD Audio" phone would not necessarily sound better, since it is limited to G.711, although it might have better quality audio amplifiers, microphones, speakers etc.
It's a gimmick. I've tried the phone. All "HD Audio" means, in this case, is preset equalizer settings. That's it.
I've tested VTech, AT&T, and Panasonic DECT 6.0 phones. I always return to Panasonic.
That's really useful to know guys, thanks! You just saved me from buying a useless phone tomorrow.
I've been using a Panasonic PBX system for many years, and have always been impressed by it. Different tech, I know, but that company makes quality products.
Quote from: Taoman on March 11, 2017, 04:17:59 PM
Quote from: SteveInWA on March 11, 2017, 03:58:15 PM
So, a "HD Audio" phone would not necessarily sound better, since it is limited to G.711, although it might have better quality audio amplifiers, microphones, speakers etc.
It's a gimmick. I've tried the phone. All "HD Audio" means, in this case, is preset equalizer settings. That's it.
I've tested VTech, AT&T, and Panasonic DECT 6.0 phones. I always return to Panasonic.
So essentially, VTech is using a meaningless term, similar to calling a grocery product "all natural". Just to be clear, though, wideband audio, aka
"HD Voice", in the telephone industry, usually means that the product supports one or more of the wideband audio CODECs (G722.2 AMR-WB and/or OPUS). The OBi IP phones do so, and the sound quality on a true wideband call (the entire path supports WB), sound fantastic compared to the typical narrowband call.
Wikipedia has a good write-up here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wideband_audio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wideband_audio)
Quote from: SteveInWA on March 11, 2017, 04:41:35 PMSo essentially, VTech is using a meaningless term, similar to calling a grocery product "all natural". Just to be clear, though, wideband audio, aka "HD Voice", in the telephone industry, usually means that the product supports one or more of the wideband audio CODECs (G722.2 AMR-WB and/or OPUS). The OBi IP phones do so, and the sound quality on a true wideband call (the entire path supports WB), sound fantastic compared to the typical narrowband call.
Wikipedia has a good write-up here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wideband_audio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wideband_audio)
As it turns out, I think I had a VTech phone all along, so I didn't need to go buy one to follow OBi tech support's suggestion... I did some research and found out that VTech owns the AT&T brand for telephones, and VTech does manufacture at least some AT&T phones. The AT&T cordless phone that I had been discussing above actually does look like a VTech phone, and I hadn't noticed this earlier, but that AT&T's cordless handset is stamped "HD Audio" on the back. So I assume this is actually a VTech-mufacturered phone.
That being said, as I noted earlier, the scratchiness is heard on both my Panasonic and my AT&T cordless handsets. I hear the scratchiness to a much lesser degree using the AT&T's
corded handset, but it's really just on the cordless handset that the call becomes difficult to understand.
I tried using a different AC adapter on the OBi202 today. That didn't help with the scratchiness, so I don't think a bad power brick is the problem.
I also signed up for Callcentric today and linked it to the OBi's Phone2 port, leaving Google Voice on the Phone1 port. I still hear the scratchiness on Callcentric calls. Switching my cordless phone's connection back and forth between Phone1 and Phone2 (to compare Google Voice vs. Callcentric), I don't hear any difference. The call quality is equally bad on either service.
I've attached a recording I made, using the OBi202's web interface (using the OBi202's IP address as the URL), calling the echo test number. I recorded it two different ways, one using the AT&T phone's cordless handset (the attached file), and one using its corded handset. The recording sounded exactly the same using either handset, so I didn't bother attaching the 2nd recording.
Note that my own voice sounds pretty clear in the recording, but OBiman's voice is very scratchy. Perhaps this is simply because his voice is not very high-quality on OBi's end, but the scratchiness gives you an idea of exactly what I am hearing even when I am speaking to a live person, using a cordless handset. A live person often sounds at least as bad as Obiman's voice here, if not worse. Some live calls are much worse than others.
I'm curious if anybody else hears OBiman's voice sound noisy like this, when they call the echo test number at **9 222 222 222 ?
I still plan to go buy a 5.8 GHz phone today, as the last thing I can think of to test.
I downloaded your audio file, listened to it--then dialed the **9 to listen to the same exact OBi prompt. I can confirm that what I heard on your audio file was pretty close to what I heard in doing the **9 test on my own OBi202.
The OBi prompt sounded like it was poorly recorded with some background line noise. The voice was OK...but it was over that background noise--somewhat like speaker phone background noise.
The echo test itself, did not have the background noise.
I then took my Uniden Dect 6 (1.9 Ghz of course) and made a call to 800-555-1212. The automated operator was clear but now I was listening for background noise when she didn't speak--and can confirm there is some line noise that could be heard if you listened carefully enough. I then went to an AT&T Dect 6 cordless and found it similar to the Uniden.
Afterwards, I used a Uniden 2.4 GHz cordless and found a bit more line noise when there was silence--but of course, only because I was focused on looking for the "noise."
I also tried a Uniden 5.8 GHz cordless, and it was similar to the Dect 6 phones...maybe a tad better.
I also used a cheap backup pure landline analog phone and when looking to hear noise during the silence, I also found line noise--worse than the cordless.
The clearest connections were from my corded IP Fortinet phone ($350 phone) (almost seems like it had line noise suppression between voices) and from my Verizon Dect 6 cordless phone connected directly to a landline--but of course, I could still find minute traces of background/line noise during the silence if I intently looked for it.
I also found that depending on the phone number I called (assuming the calls were routed through different CLECs), certain connections were clearer and certain had more line noise.
My tentative conclusions thus far are that some CLEC connections are clearer than others--and that is an additional layer of impact on the type of phone you are using--even if you are using the best phone possible. So a person may be calling from your area where the CLEC is using a less than premium line connection--which could impact your call quality. That same call, from another CLEC, in an area that uses a more premium line connection, could sound much better.
I just had some time on Sunday to test these issues...but my testing is from a layman's (non tech professional) perspective. Someone like SteveInWA, a real tech professional, could clarify these things much better, besides correcting my misuse of these terms.
Thanks so much for running those tests, LTN1!
I just called 800-555-1212 myself. The automated operator's voice sounded pretty clear to me, and I didn't notice any substantial background noise in the silent spaces. In fact, whenever I hear the scratchiness that I've been talking about, I think it's only when people are speaking, not during silent spaces between words.
I've also noticed that the scratchiness seems to be much more pronounced with male voices than with female voices. Perhaps that's just a coincidence, and I've just happened to get high-quality connections to some numbers that have female voices, or perhaps the typically lower frequencies of male voices are more susceptible to generating the noise that I hear.
I tried playing around with the various G711U codec settings in the OBi Expert Configuration today, but nothing that I changed had any noticeable effect when listening to OBiman on the echo test number. Perhaps something would have had a noticeable effect when talking to a live person though, I don't know.
I searched the online in-store inventory for all of the Best Buy stores near me today, and none of them sell any 5.8 GHz phones. They're all DECT 6.0. So it seems that I may have a hard time finding a 5.8 GHz phone to test if some sort of radio interference inside my house is the problem.
@LotharX
1. The Obi records incoming distant audio at a take-off point in the processing chain before the phone connection. That means the phone you use has minimal effect. It is only any sound picked up by its microphone and added in to the mix that affects the recording.
2. Do you find any significant difference between the scratchiness when listening to a recording compared to the live version through the phone? Concentrate on the scratchiness because the tonal balance may be quite different between the speakers or headphones and your phone(s).
Quote from: drgeoff on March 12, 2017, 04:11:22 PM
@LotharX
1. The Obi records incoming distant audio at a take-off point in the processing chain before the phone connection. That means the phone you use has minimal effect. It is only any sound picked up by its microphone and added in to the mix that affects the recording.
2. Do you find any significant difference between the scratchiness when listening to a recording compared to the live version through the phone? Concentrate on the scratchiness because the tonal balance may be quite different between the speakers or headphones and your phone(s).
That's an excellent question, drgeoff.
I just listened to an OBi recording of a conversation that I had with my father this morning (a private call, so I'd rather not post it here). It sounds significantly scratchy, but is at least understandable.
As you were getting at though, it's hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison comparing the sound coming out of my laptop computer's speakers, versus what I heard on the cordless handset. It's probably a lot more scratchy on the cordless. It's sort of as if the scratchiness is present in the transmission from the OBi202 to my phone, but it gets amplified by my cordless handset and therefore sounds more apparent on the latter. That follows something I've noted earlier in this thread--I can hear the scratchiness on corded handsets, but it's
much more apparent on cordless handsets.
I'll try to make a point of recording the next significantly scratchy call that I'm on with a live person, and do the comparison again.
Back to the OBiman recording that I posted here earlier though... I understand that his voice is apparently not good quality in the first place (per LTN1's test), but the recording nonentheless sounds just like what I am hearing on a typical scratchy live-person call. It's like listening to a vinyl record album (for those of us old enough to remember what those sound like) that's been damaged by rubbing the vinyl with sandpaper.
So I'm wondering if whatever phenomenon is responsible for OBiman's voice sounding like that (compression artifacts, or whatever) just happens to be the same as what's causing the problem on my own phone calls.
At this point, I'm perhaps willing to give up on my Panasonic and AT&T cordless phones and go buy an expensive IP phone (either to use with the OBi202 if it's compatible, or with its own VoIP adapter), to see if that works better, but I'd probably have to order one online, so that will make it difficult to return if it doesn't work out. I'd rather exhaust all other options first. I don't know anything about whether IP phones can work with Google Voice, if anybody can educate me.
Again: calling ***1 or ***0 (or some other IVR) is not a valid test. Those are low-bandwidth, synthetically-assembled voices. There's going to be significant distortion. You need to talk with a real, live human being.
Also, be aware: by design, the OBi (and most other ATAs) inject a small amount of hiss into the receiver, known as "comfort noise". Research found that, when a call is completely silent, people think the call has been disconnected, or the other party can't hear them, so the noise is intentionally added. On top of that, the ATA optionally sends a fraction of your side of the call (whatever it picks up from your voice and the room) back into your earpiece. This is known as "sidetone". Again, this is to solve a human factor issue: when you speak face-to-face with someone, your brain is hearing your own voice, too. If you don't hear it, you tend to talk too loud. These two things may not be what you are hearing, but they need to be considered when analyzing the overall audio.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_noise (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_noise)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidetone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidetone)
Bottom line: if you are sure that you hear the same crappy sound quality on Callcentric as on Google Voice, when a live human being is talking to you, the only thing you can do is to experiment lowering the ChannelTxGain value (the amplification level of the sound being sent to your telephone's earpiece) in combination with the volume setting on the phone itself. If this doesn't solve the problem, then either you have a defective OBi, or your own hearing finds the sound objectionable, and there's no fix (other than to get a hearing test, and/or try to get the OBi exchanged).
RE: IP phones: you wouldn't plug an IP phone into an OBi ATA. An IP phone takes the place of an ATA. For example, you could buy a OBi 1022, 1032 or 1062 IP phone, and configure it with your Google Voice or Callcentric (or other SIP provider) accounts. All the OBi IP phones have the same, very high quality audio components.
Quote from: LTN1 on March 12, 2017, 02:15:44 PM
I downloaded your audio file, listened to it--then dialed the **9 to listen to the same exact OBi prompt. I can confirm that what I heard on your audio file was pretty close to what I heard in doing the **9 test on my own OBi202.
The OBi prompt sounded like it was poorly recorded with some background line noise. The voice was OK...but it was over that background noise--somewhat like speaker phone background noise.
The echo test itself, did not have the background noise.
I then took my Uniden Dect 6 (1.9 Ghz of course) and made a call to 800-555-1212. The automated operator was clear but now I was listening for background noise when she didn't speak--and can confirm there is some line noise that could be heard if you listened carefully enough. I then went to an AT&T Dect 6 cordless and found it similar to the Uniden.
Afterwards, I used a Uniden 2.4 GHz cordless and found a bit more line noise when there was silence--but of course, only because I was focused on looking for the "noise."
I also tried a Uniden 5.8 GHz cordless, and it was similar to the Dect 6 phones...maybe a tad better.
I also used a cheap backup pure landline analog phone and when looking to hear noise during the silence, I also found line noise--worse than the cordless.
The clearest connections were from my corded IP Fortinet phone ($350 phone) (almost seems like it had line noise suppression between voices) and from my Verizon Dect 6 cordless phone connected directly to a landline--but of course, I could still find minute traces of background/line noise during the silence if I intently looked for it.
I also found that depending on the phone number I called (assuming the calls were routed through different CLECs), certain connections were clearer and certain had more line noise.
My tentative conclusions thus far are that some CLEC connections are clearer than others--and that is an additional layer of impact on the type of phone you are using--even if you are using the best phone possible. So a person may be calling from your area where the CLEC is using a less than premium line connection--which could impact your call quality. That same call, from another CLEC, in an area that uses a more premium line connection, could sound much better.
I just had some time on Sunday to test these issues...but my testing is from a layman's (non tech professional) perspective. Someone like SteveInWA, a real tech professional, could clarify these things much better, besides correcting my misuse of these terms.
Great testing work. 2.4GHz and 5.8GHz cordless phones have been obsolete for years. If any are still for sale, they'd most likely be old stock/discontinued products. In particular, 2.4GHz phones are very susceptible to dropouts and severe distortion from microwave ovens, WiFi and other uses of that band, and 5.8GHz are too, to a lesser extent. That's one reason DECT has its own, dedicated frequency range.
Attached recording made as follows:
Olympus LS3 recorder with Sony ECM-TL02 microphone between my ear and earpiece in handset of Gigaset S445 DECT handset and base station. (Original European DECT system.) Recorder set to 44.1 kHz sampling, 16 bit PCM mono, manual level control and low cut filter off.
DECT base connected to phone port of OBi110. OBi110 registered as an extension on my Asterisk PBX. Called my Callcentric number using GV trunk on Asterisk. Callcentric trunk on Asterisk brought the call back across the Atlantic to Asterisk which forwarded it to Lenny as a remote SIP extension.
Quote from: drgeoff on March 13, 2017, 12:48:17 PM
Attached recording made as follows:
Olympus LS3 recorder with Sony ECM-TL02 microphone between my ear and earpiece in handset of Gigaset S445 DECT handset and base station. (Original European DECT system.) Recorder set to 44.1 kHz sampling, 16 bit PCM mono, manual level control and low cut filter off.
DECT base connected to phone port of OBi110. OBi110 registered as an extension on my Asterisk PBX. Called my Callcentric number using GV trunk on Asterisk. Callcentric trunk on Asterisk brought the call back across the Atlantic to Asterisk which forwarded it to Lenny as a remote SIP extension.
I didn't hear any audible problems, except the person speaking appeared kind of nervous. Was that a real call or a fictional one? Also, who did the voice belong to?
Quote from: LTN1 on March 13, 2017, 02:17:34 PM
I didn't hear any audible problems, except the person speaking appeared kind of nervous. Was that a real call or a fictional one? Also, who did the voice belong to?
That was Lenny. Surely you must know Lenny? Heck of a nice guy. Will talk to you any time of the day or night. Just don't get him started talking about his daughter...........or you'll be sorry.
Lenny is where you send telespammers when you want to mess with them. You can talk to Lenny at 2233435945@sip2sip.info at any time. Probably easiest to make a speed dial entry like:
sp2(2233435945@sip2sip.info)
This assumes sp2 is a SIP trunk.
Quote from: Taoman on March 13, 2017, 03:05:44 PM
Quote from: LTN1 on March 13, 2017, 02:17:34 PM
I didn't hear any audible problems, except the person speaking appeared kind of nervous. Was that a real call or a fictional one? Also, who did the voice belong to?
That was Lenny. Surely you must know Lenny? Heck of a nice guy. Will talk to you any time of the day or night. Just don't get him started talking about his daughter...........or you'll be sorry.
Lenny is where you send telespammers when you want to mess with them. You can talk to Lenny at 2233435945@sip2sip.info at any time. Probably easiest to make a speed dial entry like:
sp2(2233435945@sip2sip.info)
This assumes sp2 is a SIP trunk.
Nice to know. You saved me the embarrassment of wanting to ask drgeoff, "What the heck kind of 'doctor' talks like that?" And, "If your third eldest daughter is the first to go to university in the family, then where the heck did you get your 'doctor' title?"
Hi all.
For several weeks, I heard intermittent static (pops, snaps and cracks) during my phone conversations associated with my OBi200 with latest firmware version OBi202-3-2-2-5921EX-332148940. I am also confident all settings are defaults.
The pops, snaps and cracks (on average) occur every 2 to 15 seconds . . . where during any call I typically hear a dozen or more every minute. Interestingly, the person I am talking with does not hear any static.
I also have an OBi202, and all calls on it are static free. Both OBi's are within a foot of one another, and I any electronics in the area have been in place and operating during the lives of both OBi's . . . where for better than 2 years, no static on the OBi200.
After reading drgeoff's reply . . .
Quote from: drgeoff on March 11, 2017, 11:27:10 AM
. . . I recorded a few minutes of conversation I had earlier today, and then listened to the recording with Audacity - and I could easily here the static (pops, cracks and snaps) during the call - and so I have attached a copy for analysis.
This static happens at all times of day or night - and local weather conditions have no impact (meaning no change in static).
Thanks in advance for your support and suggestions.
Marty
P.S. ATTN MODERATOR . . . After several attempts to POST A NEW TOPIC failed - each attempt resulting in the following error message . . .
Ran into problems sending Mail. Error: 535 5.7.8 https://support.google.com/mail/?p=BadCredentials q5sm9423174pfk.219 - gsmtp . . . so I chose to post a reply here and was immediately successful. Please move to its' own NEW TOPIC if you would be so kind. Thank you. Marty