Re http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=13824.0
I note the words "firmware update to current OBITALK products".
I take this to mean:
1. Google Voice will not be using vanilla SIP which is already supported by all OBi devices.
2. OBi1x0 devices are not classified as current products and will not get the update nor by virtue of #1 above get GV operation reinstated.
3. Also implied is that all current methods (ie XMPP or SIP gateway) of connecting Asterisk to GV will no longer work.
4. Bill Simon may or may not be happy !
In understanding that the calls will work in the same way as before, I'm wondering if any beta users have tested if it will impact OBi's faxing capabilities in any way?
Quote from: drgeoff on April 28, 2018, 03:11:20 AM
Re http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=13824.0
1. Google Voice will not be using vanilla SIP which is already supported by all OBi devices.
A little sniffing around revealed standard SIP + something similar to this auth proposal: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-authn-02#section-1.3 Most of the "non-vanilla" stuff seems to be happening behind the scenes on Google's side. At the least, the Obi firmware update adds the ability to do SIP authentication using OpenID Connect.
Quote from: drgeoff on April 28, 2018, 03:11:20 AM
2. OBi1x0 devices are not classified as current products and will not get the update nor by virtue of #1 above get GV operation reinstated.
I also expect this will be beyond the scope of the third-party firmware hackers to figure out, at least for a long while (making it not worth it).
Quote from: drgeoff on April 28, 2018, 03:11:20 AM
3. Also implied is that all current methods (ie XMPP or SIP gateway) of connecting Asterisk to GV will no longer work.
4. Bill Simon may or may not be happy !
If Google would publish a technical document or API about this new SIP interop, I think everyone could be happy!
As long as Asterisk can be made to work with this new SIP interop, everyone can be happy.
Quote from: drgeoff on April 28, 2018, 03:11:20 AM
Re http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=13824.0
I note the words "firmware update to current OBITALK products".
I take this to mean:
1. Google Voice will not be using vanilla SIP which is already supported by all OBi devices.
2. OBi1x0 devices are not classified as current products and will not get the update nor by virtue of #1 above get GV operation reinstated.
3. Also implied is that all current methods (ie XMPP or SIP gateway) of connecting Asterisk to GV will no longer work.
4. Bill Simon may or may not be happy !
1) The signaling protocol changes from XMPP to SIP. That does NOT mean that you can simply use a SIP user ID and password on any generic ATA.
2) No updates to the 100 series. To quote the classic Saturday Night Live Chevy Chase observation: "Generalissimo Francisco Franco is STILL dead".
3) Right. Google isn't obligated to support anything else
4) The GVGW service will not work as an XMPP<-->SIP bridge after Google shuts down XMPP.
Any chance the change will add features, such MWI or CNAM?
Funny you should ask about that -- I was thinking the same thing last night. Over the years, I've been badgering Obihai to add 911 and CNAM services. I think one issue was that it's not so hard from a technology standpoint, but those two services cost money, and how can Obihai (now Polycom) provide them at some sort of annual fee. As for MWI, I don't know if it is technically feasible, but I'm going to lean on both sides to see what can be done. Thanks for bringing it up.
I've been checking the third-party forums, to try to identify any problems, while this rolls out. As typical, many of the comments on DSLReports are Alex Jones-style conspiracy theories, bias against large companies, or unfounded speculation.
Here are some facts:
- Google is definitely not killing Google Voice. Why any reasonable person would think that, given that Google is very actively overhauling and improving the service, is beyond me. Anyone who speculates otherwise, or claims that Google has been letting the service die of neglect, simply hasn't been paying attention.
- Yes, Google really means it this time: the XMPP servers will be shut down permanently, as announced by Google. The "migration period" for OBiTALK products starts now. Any OBiTALK products that haven't been migrated by the shutdown date will stop working, unless and until they are updated.
- One conspiracy theory is that Google is recording and saving everyone's calls. No, they are not doing that. There are tens of millions of Google Voice users. Imagine the size of the data centers that would require, not to mention the legality. At most, if you opt-in, they will use speech-to-text software to transcribe your voicemail messages. There is no monitoring of active telephone calls, without the law enforcement agencies following due process, via a national security letter, court order or subpoena. You are welcome to examine all of the data Google is collecting about you, on your Google account management page: https://myaccount.google.com/ (https://myaccount.google.com/). Anyone can read Google's policy and approach to handling government requests for information, here: https://support.google.com/transparencyreport/answer/7381738/ (https://support.google.com/transparencyreport/answer/7381738/).
- There are often claims that companies do things like this out of malice, or as a way to shut down some rogue action by bad actors. All I can say is that people whose belief systems assume the worst in human behavior could benefit from some serious self-reflection. Google couldn't give a flying f**k about a handful of users and their third-party firmware. Google's Terms of Use and Acceptable Use policies are clearly documented. Their focus is on offering the service to users who comply with those policies, and specifically, to shut down abusers. A few examples would be: acquiring multiple Google Voice DIDs and setting up multiple trunks, to use for robocalling, abuse, spam, harassment, stalking, other illegal use, or reselling the service to others. Google has abuse-detection algorithms that look for abusive calling and texting patterns, and they may suspend or permanently shut down users who violate their terms.
- No, Polycom is most definitely not going to dump Google Voice support, nor discontinue the OBiTALK ATAs. They've spent months working with Google to prepare for, and to continue to be compatible with Google Voice. Instead, I would expect cosmetic changes for re-branding, and, just like every other tech company, new hardware may be released over time, which will still support Google Voice.
- Google's infrastructure includes dedicated hardware to support VoIP, and it is designed to include Polycom hardware support.
- The Obihai/Polycom merger combines companies with complementary products. Polycom did not market ATAs, just as Obihai didn't market conference calling equipment, and those products are not going to be canceled. I would expect certain IP phone products to be consolidated between the two companies' legacy product lines. If Plantronics acquires Polycom, it will simply provide further synergy between companies with complementary products, and enable the combined company to more effectively compete in the enterprise market (e.g. companies using Microsoft Skype For Business, or competing offerings).
- Over time (years, not months), as individuals, households and business dump POTS service, I expect market demand for ATAs to diminish, while growth in the IP phone market will increase. However, that has no bearing on Google Voice, as current Obihai legacy IP phones all support Google Voice, and there is no reason that can't continue to be the case. Similarly, as the market shifts to cloud-based, integrated telephony solutions, local PBX use will greatly diminish.
My information comes from direct conversations with employees of both companies, and it is not random speculation.
FYI links:
https://www.google.com/googlevoice/program-policies.html (https://www.google.com/googlevoice/program-policies.html)
https://www.google.com/intl/en_US/googlevoice/legal-notices.html (https://www.google.com/intl/en_US/googlevoice/legal-notices.html)
https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en&gl=us (https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en&gl=us)
Steve,
Thanks for sharing "some facts" on the changes.
I always look forward to your updates on the changes coming our way.
So, does this mean that an Obi 1xx box will positively NOT work directly with GV anymore, even with GVGW?
Is there no known way to change GVGW to make the new system work with an Obi 1xx?
Quote from: mo832 on May 01, 2018, 09:58:00 PM
So, does this mean that an Obi 1xx box will positively NOT work directly with GV anymore, even with GVGW?
Is there no known way to change GVGW to make the new system work with an Obi 1xx?
That question is better addressed to Bill Simon.
Quote from: mo832 on May 01, 2018, 09:58:00 PM
So, does this mean that an Obi 1xx box will positively NOT work directly with GV anymore, even with GVGW?
Is there no known way to change GVGW to make the new system work with an Obi 1xx?
It's possible, but I would not count on it. Upgrade to an Obi 2xx if you want to be sure. If Google provides a new way to connect then we may be able to work something out.
Quote from: billsimon on May 02, 2018, 05:24:02 AM
Quote from: mo832 on May 01, 2018, 09:58:00 PM
So, does this mean that an Obi 1xx box will positively NOT work directly with GV anymore, even with GVGW?
Is there no known way to change GVGW to make the new system work with an Obi 1xx?
It's possible, but I would not count on it. Upgrade to an Obi 2xx if you want to be sure. If Google provides a new way to connect then we may be able to work something out.
I got the impression from an earlier post, Bill, that you will be more than happy to end GVGW. Is that correct?
Quote from: ceg3 on May 02, 2018, 06:51:12 AM
I got the impression from an earlier post, Bill, that you will be more than happy to end GVGW. Is that correct?
The only thing my feelings affect is how much effort I'll put into adapting GVGW to whatever SIP integration is available with Google. If information is made available and it's relatively straightforward, then GVGW may continue. Otherwise... it's been a good run. (6 years!) There are a lot of current active GVGW users.
OK, I've got a 3-part question regarding the 1xx devices.
1. Assuming for now that GVGW will not be of much help for the new system, does that mean that the 1xx devices are no longer compatible with "native" Google Voice? (and no valid hacks?)
2. If #1 is true, does this mean we should go dig up those 2014 threads when XMPP was scheduled to be retired? I.E., is this the same situation? Would all(most) of the same workarounds apply?
3. Is there currently a convenient way to use a smartphone to initiate a GV outgoing call the "old" way? For example, I have never tried the GV android app, but can a call be requested on the app to ring your assigned phone device? As opposed to using a standard pc/browser to access GV.
Quote from: mo832 on May 02, 2018, 09:29:21 AM
OK, I've got a 3-part question regarding the 1xx devices.
1. Assuming for now that GVGW will not be of much help for the new system, does that mean that the 1xx devices are no longer compatible with "native" Google Voice? (and no valid hacks?)
2. If #1 is true, does this mean we should go dig up those 2014 threads when XMPP was scheduled to be retired? I.E., is this the same situation? Would all(most) of the same workarounds apply?
3. Is there currently a convenient way to use a smartphone to initiate a GV outgoing call the "old" way? For example, I have never tried the GV android app, but can a call be requested on the app to ring your assigned phone device? As opposed to using a standard pc/browser to access GV.
Why do you appear here every few years, asking questions that have already been answered, and/or are pointless? Everything you need to know has been explained already. And, your f-ing OBi 100 was introduced some 10 years ago. You got your money's worth out of it...a few dollars a year.
Quote from: SteveInWA on May 02, 2018, 09:39:31 AM
Why do you appear here every few years, asking questions that have already been answered, and/or are pointless? Everything you need to know has been explained already. And, your f-ing OBi 100 was introduced some 10 years ago. You got your money's worth out of it...a few dollars a year.
Your personal commentary is not necessary. If you don't like my questions or my approach, you could simply ignore me, as I do anytime I see remarks on here which annoy me or don't pertain to me.
To address your comments directly- there is nothing in my current questions which are directly addressed already, since this latest update to GV has never been introduced before. It is quite possible that this situation is not identical to anything before and this is why I am seeking clarification.
The age/value/money's worth comment is a complete non-sequitur. I suppose everyone with a classic VW Beetle should just junk it since it's 80-year-old technology? If things still have valid use, there is no reason to stop using them. It's not for you to tell another person what to do with their property.
Instead of ridiculing my questions and me for asking them, I would appreciate if you would allow anyone else who might wish to comment that opportunity. I am quite certain that any comments would be helpful to a great many other users here.
The answer to that currently is unknown as it's too soon.
Best to just wait until this rolls out first so those devs of the 3rd Party Firmware can see if it's possible or not. Let's not jump the gun either way....
If not then snag an Obi200 series device.
This is just rolling out and the XMPP shut off date is June 18th. Plenty of time for you to figure out if your Obi100 will work or you'll need to save for a 200 series device.
I get Steve is annoyed because people keep asking bizarre things (Obi dying, Google Voice dying and the like) and not reading the information clearly posted.
By June 18th either you'll have to upgrade your Obi device or maybe the 3rd party devs will have something or some other new method will be created. Nothing is known until it rolls out to more people.
To your number 3 question.... You'll be able to use the Google Voice app on your Phone for VOIP calls. It's in beta at the moment. Otherwise Hangouts has been working for years for that function (need the Hangouts Dialer app).
Unless you mean calling over the Cell network? The Google Voice app can mask your outgoing Caller ID to your G-voice number when calling out over the Cell network.
I don't understand what you mean by "old" way?
Quote from: mo832 on May 02, 2018, 09:29:21 AM
3. Is there currently a convenient way to use a smartphone to initiate a GV outgoing call the "old" way? For example, I have never tried the GV android app, but can a call be requested on the app to ring your assigned phone device? As opposed to using a standard pc/browser to access GV.
The GV app can make an outgoing call from your cell phone. It doesn't do a callback to another number.
The Google Play android app "GVoice Callback" does allow you to initiate a call from your android phone and it will "call back" to one of your linked phone numbers and then complete the call.
However, I wouldn't count on it to continue working with all the changes Google is making to Google Voice but I could be wrong.
Quote from: billsimon on May 02, 2018, 07:21:24 AM
Quote from: ceg3 on May 02, 2018, 06:51:12 AM
I got the impression from an earlier post, Bill, that you will be more than happy to end GVGW. Is that correct?
The only thing my feelings affect is how much effort I'll put into adapting GVGW to whatever SIP integration is available with Google. If information is made available and it's relatively straightforward, then GVGW may continue. Otherwise... it's been a good run. (6 years!) There are a lot of current active GVGW users.
OK, thanks! Didn't realize GVGW has been around that long. I only signed up last year and thought it very cool. We'll just have to see what the future brings.
Quote from: Taoman on May 02, 2018, 11:04:34 AM
The GV app can make an outgoing call from your cell phone. It doesn't do a callback to another number.
The Google Play android app "GVoice Callback" does allow you to initiate a call from your android phone and it will "call back" to one of your linked phone numbers and then complete the call.
However, I wouldn't count on it to continue working with all the changes Google is making to Google Voice but I could be wrong.
Very helpful, thank you.
Please confirm my understanding. I'll summarize it:
1.The official GV app does NOT work the same way as the GV website to initiate outgoing calls but GVoice Callback does.
2.GVoice Callback is an unofficial 3rd party application which may stop working.
3.(Pretend you have no Obi, but you do have a GV account and phone number). If you want to place a "callback" call using a screen interface to ring a linked phone (landline/cell/DID number,etc), the ONLY way is via the GV pc web interface "voice.google.com" if you want to use official Google methods.
Correct?
Quote from: Crow550 on May 02, 2018, 10:38:44 AM
I don't understand what you mean by "old" way?
First of all, thank you for the detailed response. :D
The "old" way was my way of describing the original Google Voice, which was just a call management system that could direct your calls to several phones. You would place an outgoing call with your GV number showing as the number of record by clicking the dialed number on the screen to setup a callback. That was a 2-step method which was made seamless by the introduction of the Obi.
Then, when the original phase-out of XMPP was to occur in 2014, many posters on here discussed ways of using the "old" or "manual" way to call out using standard SIP.
Quote from: mo832 on May 02, 2018, 12:21:23 PM
Correct?
That is correct.............
as far as I know.*
You used to be able to initiate a call back using the mobile version of the GV website on your cell phone. That capability has been removed.
*It is still possible to initiate a call (with callback) using "pygooglevoice" on asterisk. But again, after Google finishes updating Google Voice that method may no longer work.
However, neither pygooglevoice or the GVoice app use XMPP so they may continue to function. Time will tell.
Edit: Bill Simon (who has posted in this thread) just made a relevant post on DSLreports that's hard to argue with, IMHO.
https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31944425- (https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31944425-)
Quote from: SteveInWA on April 29, 2018, 06:04:50 PM
As for MWI, I don't know if it is technically feasible, but I'm going to lean on both sides to see what can be done. Thanks for bringing it up.
Any news on MWI? This is an important feature for my neighbor. I previously routed her incoming calls through Callcentric, but you have to shorten the answer time to pick up before GV does. Now I am using an asterisk derivative which provides MWI, but that might not work after June 18.
Quote from: rammjet on May 07, 2018, 09:44:16 AM
Quote from: SteveInWA on April 29, 2018, 06:04:50 PM
As for MWI, I don't know if it is technically feasible, but I'm going to lean on both sides to see what can be done. Thanks for bringing it up.
Any news on MWI? This is an important feature for my neighbor. I previously routed her incoming calls through Callcentric, but you have to shorten the answer time to pick up before GV does. Now I am using an asterisk derivative which provides MWI, but that might not work after June 18.
No, there hasn't been any support added for MWI. It's dependent on Google making that feature available to OBiTALK devices. Hopefully it'll be added at some point.
Posted in the Google Voice support forum:
"The new Google Voice VoIP service is standards compliant and should work with many third party solutions.
Dave - Google Voice Team"
Quote from: nlurker on May 11, 2018, 05:57:59 AM
Posted in the Google Voice support forum:
"The new Google Voice VoIP service is standards compliant and should work with many third party solutions.
Dave - Google Voice Team"
And while others have already pointed to that indirect reference, unfortunately that says nothing about the details of those standards, nor what the 3rd parties must do (or, potentially, license) to implement them. There has been much conjecture as to what "Dave" was really saying, and one can certainly try to read between the lines, and some will hope for the best, and some will fear the worst. But in all cases, it is all just conjecture at this point until Google shares more.
And meanwhile Google is pushing out new Google Voice firmware that is tied to a single commercial vendor using FQDNs tied to that vendor's proprietary ATAs. Maybe "standards-based" has a new meaning I'm not aware of.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dc2pjIWVMAAlwnH.jpg)
Quote from: NerdUno on May 11, 2018, 08:16:57 AM
And meanwhile ..
Thanks for self identifying as a FUDer. It saves time to decide whether to add one to the plonk lists!
Sorry if the facts confused you. What was it you didn't understand?
Hi NerdUno - good to see you here !!
Has any great help for this latest debacle been posted to your blog yet ?!?