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Author Topic: Really poor way to handle things  (Read 35660 times)
Rick
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Posts: 1009


« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2016, 03:26:38 pm »

No where have I seen an explanation.  What changed that rendered 2872 non-functional?  Why is it still working for some?  Why did some stop working and then start working again without an update? Why has OBI not responded to any posts or updated the firmware thread?  Where is Sherman?....

« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 09:53:52 am by PLUS-Beta » Logged
Mango
Sr. Member
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Posts: 498


« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2016, 04:26:23 pm »

Since Google Voice is a free service with no SLA and no support, we will likely not get an answer to your questions.

Where us Sherman?....

Back in 2012, Obihai pushed a firmware update via OBiTALK.  Some users got their panties in a bunch about their firmware being updated automatically, and Sherman hasn't posted much since.  For a while Mark was answering questions here but he left the company over a year ago.  Since then the forum has been more or less running itself.
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SteveInWA
Hero Member & Beta Tester
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Posts: 3972



« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2016, 06:57:29 pm »

This whole fiasco got me to thinking.  If Obihai were to go out of business or shut down their servers, would my 110 immediately stop working, or would it continue to function at least until the next time Google makes another change that breaks it?

Obihai is doing fine financially.  They're selling devices by the millions to major service providers worldwide, not just in the USA.  The OBi retail/Google Voice business on Amazon, Newegg, etc. is a small portion of their overall revenue stream.  Don't worry about that.

And, let's be clear:  there never was, and still isn't, any promise or warranty that OBi devices can or will support Google Voice (technically speaking, Google XMPP) forever, nor is Obihai responsible for whatever business or technical decisions that a third party (Google) makes in the future with respect to XMPP support.

That said, consider this, for the sake of betting odds:  Google is continuing to support, and even expand, the use of Google Voice, and Google Chat/XMPP, via appropriate Oauth 2.0 authentication, for OBi devices, Google Project Fi, Google Fiber Phone, etc.  The service is growing, and it is not at risk of shutting down.

Finally, you have a powerful and industry-leading generic SIP ATA or IP phone, that can be used with the SIP VoIP provider(s) of your choice, now, and in the future.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 06:59:28 pm by SteveInWA » Logged

billsimon
Jr. Member
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Posts: 44


« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2016, 07:10:34 pm »

And, let's be clear:  there never was, and still isn't, any promise or warranty that OBi devices can or will support Google Voice (technically speaking, Google XMPP) forever, nor is Obihai responsible for whatever business or technical decisions that a third party (Google) makes in the future with respect to XMPP support.

Obihai claims boldly that they support Google Voice. It's clever wording though. Just because they support Google Voice doesn't mean Google Voice supports them, though I think most people take it to be a mutual partnership.

Obihai would probably do better to set reasonable expectations about Google Voice functionality so that forum users don't grab their pitchforks every time there is an unpublished change or glitch that affects service.
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SteveInWA
Hero Member & Beta Tester
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Posts: 3972



« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2016, 07:15:18 pm »

And, let's be clear:  there never was, and still isn't, any promise or warranty that OBi devices can or will support Google Voice (technically speaking, Google XMPP) forever, nor is Obihai responsible for whatever business or technical decisions that a third party (Google) makes in the future with respect to XMPP support.

Obihai claims boldly that they support Google Voice. It's clever wording though. Just because they support Google Voice doesn't mean Google Voice supports them, though I think most people take it to be a mutual partnership.

Obihai would probably do better to set reasonable expectations about Google Voice functionality so that forum users don't grab their pitchforks every time there is an unpublished change or glitch that affects service.

Oh please.  That was a two-year-old discussion.  You can debate all day, the definition of "support".
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billsimon
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Posts: 44


« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2016, 07:21:30 pm »

Where is the two year old discussion? I'm not referring to anything other than what they are currently claiming. I think this point is valid and it is one of the reasons people get upset (the guy who asked Amazon for a refund on a purchase from 4 years ago because Obihai defrauded him??).

Precisely because the definition of "support" is debatable, it would help people have more realistic expectations of the Google Voice connection if they understood that Google acts independently and Obihai may have to take a moment to patch firmware after a Google update.
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Lavarock7
Sr. Member
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Posts: 480



« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2016, 11:19:40 pm »

This reminds me of the problem we had a while back.

All of a sudden boats were disabled out at sea. The reason? The US Government decided that it would be a great idea to force people to use a blend of gasoline and ethanol. The ethanol ate through the fuel lines disabling much gas-powered equipment.

So who's fault is it? The government for wanting to change how things are done, or the equipment manufacturers who, perhaps 10 or 20 years ago did not envision that they may have to support a non-gasoline additive sometime in the future?

Obihai is not Google and Google is not Obihai. GoogleVoice was around long before Obihai and eben though there may be some agreement of interoperability, it is not guaranteed.
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MRTT
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Posts: 20


« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2016, 10:37:44 am »

... Back in 2012, Obihai pushed a firmware update via OBiTALK.  Some users got their panties in a bunch about their firmware being updated automatically, and Sherman hasn't posted much since.  For a while Mark was answering questions here but he left the company over a year ago.  Since then the forum has been more or less running itself.

I was wondering why the obi 100/110 firmware thread has zero mention of newer fw 2886.  Too bad obi cannot be bothered to keep the thread up to date.

Still... glad to see obi supporting the 110's by updating the firmware.
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bryki
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Posts: 1


« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2016, 11:04:28 am »

Kind thanks to SteveInWA for the link and instructions to perform the needed update.  You're a lifesaver!
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PeterK
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Posts: 2


« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2016, 12:24:52 pm »

OMG no kidding this was a REALLY bad way of handling things. My phone just stopped working this morning and I had no clue why. When I went to Obitalk I saw that my device is not up to date for Google Voice. That's it. No explanation of how to correct it except to say I can pay $10 for service!!!

Needless to say I was outraged. i have never seen a hardware company make you pay for a firmware update. Not cool ObiHai, not cool at all.

THANK YOU SteveInWA for the link and instructions. Took all of 2 minutes to complete and now my device works again!
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LTN1
Sr. Member
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Posts: 478


« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2016, 12:43:23 pm »

OMG no kidding this was a REALLY bad way of handling things. My phone just stopped working this morning and I had no clue why. When I went to Obitalk I saw that my device is not up to date for Google Voice. That's it. No explanation of how to correct it except to say I can pay $10 for service!!!

Needless to say I was outraged. i have never seen a hardware company make you pay for a firmware update. Not cool ObiHai, not cool at all.

THANK YOU SteveInWA for the link and instructions. Took all of 2 minutes to complete and now my device works again!

I don't know of any major computer hardware company (Dell, HP, etc.) that will continue to provide automatic updates to their customers after the warranty has expired--without some sort of extended warranty program. The same with software companies like Microsoft--once the warranty period is over, they stop the automatic updates.

That said, I agree that the functionality of any device should not be tied to an update. Updates should only improve functionality and/or security, than be contingent on the continued operation of the device. And...if it is contingent on the continued operation of the device, the hardware maker should notify the end user, regardless of warranty.
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dircom
Sr. Member
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Posts: 425


« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2016, 01:15:46 pm »

OMG no kidding this was a REALLY bad way of handling things. My phone just stopped working this morning and I had no clue why. When I went to Obitalk I saw that my device is not up to date for Google Voice. That's it. No explanation of how to correct it except to say I can pay $10 for service!!!

Needless to say I was outraged. i have never seen a hardware company make you pay for a firmware update. Not cool ObiHai, not cool at all.


How about when Microsoft puts out a new version of windows, and your Printer company refuses to provide a new driver?  Paid or Unpaid.

Really, people get a grip.
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andyc56
Newbie
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Posts: 1


« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2016, 01:55:43 pm »

OMG no kidding this was a REALLY bad way of handling things. My phone just stopped working this morning and I had no clue why.

Same here, and at a really bad time, too.

THANK YOU SteveInWA for the link and instructions. Took all of 2 minutes to complete and now my device works again!

I'd like to echo that thanks to Steve and others who posted links to the firmware.  I came to the forum, saw a thread called "Really poor way to handle things", and thought, "Aha, this must be it!"  I downloaded the firmware and was up and running again quickly.
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MFB867
Newbie
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Posts: 6


« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2016, 03:25:37 pm »

I, too, am grateful for this forum.  I discovered that my phone didn't work at 4:00 PM today. Didn't know what was going on so I tried rebooting the Obi. That didn't help. Looked up my ObiTalk password and logged in, figuring I'd have to re-setup up Google Voice for some reason. Then I found Obi's "send us $10 or your phone is history" message.

I grumbled a lot and was just about to click the $10 button when I remembered the forum. It took about 10 seconds to find the relevant thread, and another 5 minutes to install the new firmware. Phone is fixed!

I like the Obi and, considering that I am paying a $0 annual fee, I can't complain. But it's sure not for Grandma or anyone who doesn't want to bit-twiddle.

Mike


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GrailPuffin
Newbie
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Posts: 2


« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2016, 05:25:24 pm »

  • Download and save the .fw file from this link:  http://fw.obihai.com/OBi110-1-3-0-2886.fw
  • Although the filename includes "OBi110", it is also valid for OBi100 devices.
  • Pick up the phone attached to your OBi and dial ***1 and write down the IP address that it reads to you.
  • Open a web browser to that address.
  • Log into your OBi device.  The default username and password are both admin
  • Click System Management-->Device Update-->Firmware Update-->Select file to update firmware.
  • Browse to the file you downloaded and select it.
  • Click the "Update" button.
  • You may need to re-authorize your device to use your Google account after this procedure.  To do that, first, be sure that you are logged into the correct Google/Gmail account that holds your Google Voice number.  Then, open another web browser tab, and log into to the OBiTALK dashboard, click on your device, then click on the Service Provider (SP1 or SP2) that is using Google Voice.  Click "Accept" at the prompt.  On the window that will open, click the link to "Replace Google account credentials" and follow the instructions.

This worked for my OBI202 as well with the following firmware update: http://www.obihai.com/firmware/OBi2-latest.fw

Before I actually could do anything, I had to re-enable web access for the OBI202 so I could actually log into the device as admin and upload the firmware. Here are those steps:

Enable logging into your device
Dial ***0 from the phone connected to the OBi202
Enter 30#
Press 1 to Enter a New Value
Press 1# to Enable
Press 1 to Save
Hang up

After the firmware was installed, I needed to delete and then re-establish the connection to Google Voice as well.

Everything is working again. <whew>
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Lavarock7
Sr. Member
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Posts: 480



« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2016, 07:53:30 pm »

OMG no kidding this was a REALLY bad way of handling things. My phone just stopped working this morning and I had no clue why. When I went to Obitalk I saw that my device is not up to date for Google Voice. That's it. No explanation of how to correct it except to say I can pay $10 for service!!!

Needless to say I was outraged. i have never seen a hardware company make you pay for a firmware update. Not cool ObiHai, not cool at all.

THANK YOU SteveInWA for the link and instructions. Took all of 2 minutes to complete and now my device works again!

I don't know of any major computer hardware company (Dell, HP, etc.) that will continue to provide automatic updates to their customers after the warranty has expired--without some sort of extended warranty program. The same with software companies like Microsoft--once the warranty period is over, they stop the automatic updates.


OK, I have to chime in here with a little known item I heard when I worked for HP.

When HP first came up with a handheld calculator, it was a big success. Many years later people would drop them, leave them on their car and drive off, eventually breaking them. They would contact and send them to HP for repair and often those repairs were free, even though their warranty was long expired.

As the saying went, "Here is the rest of the story".

HP was created, owned and staffed by engineers. When these calculators became popular, there were many sales. Engineers do not worry about warranties, and the story is, that it cost a lot for HP at the time to keep track of when people were buying these and when the warranty would expire, then to just fix them. The good will helped sales and the public thought it was good will perhaps in stead of the engineers having no clue of paperwork  :-)

Sometimes good will does trump warranty.
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Joe903
Newbie
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Posts: 4


« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2016, 08:13:32 pm »

Thanks, SteveInWA! We truly appreciate the effort you take to keep us running!

- Joe (also in WA)
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LTN1
Sr. Member
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Posts: 478


« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2016, 09:23:56 pm »

OK, I have to chime in here with a little known item I heard when I worked for HP.

When HP first came up with a handheld calculator, it was a big success. Many years later people would drop them, leave them on their car and drive off, eventually breaking them. They would contact and send them to HP for repair and often those repairs were free, even though their warranty was long expired.

As the saying went, "Here is the rest of the story".

HP was created, owned and staffed by engineers. When these calculators became popular, there were many sales. Engineers do not worry about warranties, and the story is, that it cost a lot for HP at the time to keep track of when people were buying these and when the warranty would expire, then to just fix them. The good will helped sales and the public thought it was good will perhaps in stead of the engineers having no clue of paperwork  :-)

Sometimes good will does trump warranty.

If that HP culture still exists and will fix an out of warranty laptop that I dropped a year ago (with a cracked screen), please let me know which representative to speak with. All the ones I spoke with required that I purchase the HP Out of Warranty Support (described here: http://www8.hp.com/us/en/support-drivers/total-care/out-of-warranty.html). It will cost more to fix than if I were to buy a new comparable level laptop. Don't even get me to complain about my smartphones. I've got plenty with cracked screens, black screens and out of warranty...and neither Samsung or Apple are willing to fix it unless I pay. The cracked screens I accept as my fault...however, the black screens really hurt--especially right after the warranty period. In the end, it was my risk in not buying the extended warranties. No one to blame but me...though I am still irked about the black screen.

Perhaps there was a time where companies gave lifetime warranties. Those days are very rare now...since part of their corporate income comes from service and extended warranty sales.
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RFC3261
Full Member
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Posts: 129


« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2016, 07:33:10 am »

HP was created, owned and staffed by engineers.
And that HP no longer exists.  I mean, there are many good engineers there, and the products they produce can be top notch, but the culture at the top is (alas) no more.  One can discuss as to whether the changes were inevitable, or necessary.  One can also discuss whether those changes were made in the right places at the right time and will produce the results that will be positive for the company.  But the "HP Way" is gone.
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Kendsie
Newbie
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Posts: 3


« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2016, 10:20:17 am »

Strong arm robbing folks, will NOT get you very much success in the long run!

Now, i have to go and repair all my friends phones that I suggested get a Obi box.

MAKE THE UPDATE SIMPLE or you will loose many customers!!!

Why in the world would you not?

And quit making excuses why you want to rip people off!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 10:22:49 am by Kendsie » Logged
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