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Author Topic: Question: Standard Answering Machine Not Allowing For Messages After Greeting  (Read 15689 times)
chilirock
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« on: March 18, 2017, 10:06:14 am »

I have a question to pass by you guys. I have an Obi200 connected to a Panasonic Dect 6 multi-phone / answering machine system. I'm on FW version 3.1.1.5577. I noticed that recently after upgrading the fw, my answering machine will pick up correctly after 4 rings, but after playing the greeting, just beeps (single beep, 2-3 second delay, repeat) and will not let the caller leave a message.

Do you think this has anything to do with the latest firmware, or is it just a strange coincidence? I've had Obi for more than a year and the phone system for longer than that. I never had any issues before this version. I upgraded from v3.1.1.5463EX. Just wondering if the Obi needs to somehow sense the greeting is complete before the line is release to the caller to leave a message.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 12:00:48 pm by chilirock » Logged
drgeoff
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2017, 01:59:45 pm »

I think your idea of how an answering machine works does not accord with reality.

There is no "release" or any other action that the Obi needs to do between the answering machine playing the greeting and it starting to record.

My first guess is that it is nothing to do with the OBi but that the memory of your answering machine is full.  Whatever, your first course of action should be to read the manual for the Panasonic phone.  That should inform you what the repeating beep means.
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chilirock
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2017, 08:51:35 pm »

Well, I did some further testing this evening with different versions of the firmware. I mentioned in my previous note that everything was working fine with 5463EX before I upgraded to 5577. So I reinstalled 5463EX and low and behold the answering machine started working fine again.

So I reinstalled 5577 just to test and it stopped working again. I tried the latest 5589 and that did not work. So I started working backwards from 5577 to 5562, and 5562 did not work. I then tried 5491 and that worked fine. So something broke after 5491, at least as far as the interaction of the firmware and my answering machine.

I guess I'll stick with 5491 until there is a later version after 5589 that fixes the issue. Is there a formal channel for me to report the issue to Obihai for them to address?
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chilirock
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Posts: 52


« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2017, 10:56:19 am »

I see that there was a new firmware release, 5657. I tested this version and and my answering machine will still not accept new messages after playing the greeting. The last good working version was 5491. Maybe someone at Obi Support could take a look to see what changed after that version that may be the root cause of the issue.

Anyone else still using an "old school" answering machine that's having the same problem? My wife still likes just walking in the door and looking at the message waiting light on the phone when there's a message.
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SteveInWA
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2017, 04:35:34 pm »

What DrGeoff said.  This has nothing to do with your OBi.  As far as the OBi is concerned, someone or something answered the call.  It finished its job.  From there on, it is just a telephone conversation.  The answering machine is "talking" to the caller.

If this is a "spousal approval factor" issue, then switch to a SIP VoIP ITSP that has its own voicemail server, which supports VMWI and MWI (the blinking light, and the stutter tone), and get rid of the answering machine.
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chilirock
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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2017, 06:33:12 pm »

Thanks for the replies. I'm am struggling with the assessment that the issue doesn't have anything to do with the Obi. I can directly correlate the issue to the firmware release version. Recent releases up to and including 5491 worked fine, meaning the greeting plays fine and the callers can leave messages. Releases after 5491 and up to and including 5657 don't work, meaning the greeting plays fine but the callers cannot leave messages. As soon as I revert back to 5491 from any release after 5491, messages can be received without issue.

I wonder if the issue has something to do with the Obi detecting an end of call, or treating it like a fax call. The intermittent tone that I hear after the greeting is played sounds like one a fax machine would play while it waits for the fax on the other end to start the communication link. Looking through the admin guide, I see there are some line settings that detect end of calls, eg. DetectCPC, DetectDisconnectTone, etc. I might try turning some of these on/off to see if they make a difference.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 11:29:02 am by chilirock » Logged
SteveInWA
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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2017, 06:43:01 pm »

Correlation is not causation.

We've already explained that, as far as the OBi is concerned, someone or something answered the call.  Turn off the answering machine.  Call the number from some other phone and let it ring at least 4 times.  Answer the call yourself.  Can you have a two-way conversation with the other party?  If so, then there is nothing wrong with the OBi settings.

If you let the answering machine grab the call, then whatever happens after that is up to the answering machine that answered that call.  If the answering machine can't do its job, then either fix the answering machine (go find out exactly what those beeps mean), or get rid of that 1980s technology and use voicemail.
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chilirock
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2017, 07:45:25 pm »

You are correct, causation and correlation are different. Upgrading to firmware to 5562 causes a tone to be played on the line and prevents callers from leaving messages. I noticed in WelshPaul's release notes for 5562 here: https://www.ukvoipforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=987 a new feature added called "FaxDetectionMethod now supports CNG or V.21 preamble". It seems that the fax detection method was changed in that release. I suspect that's what is causing the issue.

If you would consider another question, is there a way to disable fax detection in the Obi settings? I don't ever expect to receive faxes through the Obi ATA since I don't have a fax machine. If there was a way to disable fax detection altogether, I could try that to see if it makes a difference. Thanks again for your help.
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SteveInWA
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2017, 08:29:20 pm »

WHY won't you perform the diagnostic test I described?

If the caller does, in fact, hear a 0.5 second, 1100Hz tone, followed by 3 seconds of silence, followed by another tone, , and so on, then that is the fax CNG tone sent by the device that is placing the call to the OBi's phone number.  It is telling the caller that a fax machine is calling.  Then, the fax machine emits the ANS tone, at 2100Hz.  I seriously doubt that your Panasonic phone/answering device would emit those tones.
 It would cause havoc.  You have some sort of fax machine connected to the same telephone line as the Panasonic phones.  It could be a HP, Canon, Epson or Brother all-in-one, or an actual fax machine, or even a PC with a fax modem.

Enter 1100 and 2100 into this website to hear the tones:  http://onlinetonegenerator.com/

Find the problem.  It is not inside the OBi.

Reference:  http://what-when-how.com/voip/fax-and-modem-tones-basics-voip/
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 08:36:52 pm by SteveInWA » Logged

Konrad
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2017, 05:24:50 pm »

Dear chilirock you saved my life, I had the same problem, I had no idea what happened, thanks to your advice to return to "5491" everything returned to normal.
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chilirock
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Posts: 52


« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2017, 05:57:00 pm »

I recently updated to v5695EX and I'm still having the same issue with the answering machine. In my current config, I have my Google Voice number forwarded to my CallCentric number in order to get CNAM.

I tried unchecking the call forwarding to CC and having my GV forwarded to Google Chat, i.e. picked up by the Obi200 directly. In that configuration the answering machine works as expected. When I switch the call forwarding back to my CC number, it stops working again.

I created a support ticket with CallCentric, and they weren't aware of any issues.
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chilirock
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2017, 07:20:34 pm »

Update: I created a new support ticket with CallCentric when I found that the issue with the answering machine occurs with inbound calls to CallCentric, but not inbound calls to Google Voice. They had me send them the date/time stamps of a couple of calls where I had the issue.

CallCentric support was able to review the call logs from their end and determine that the reason that I am hearing the beeps is that about 30 seconds into the call (e.g. after the Obi answers the call and after the answering machine plays the outgoing message) the Obi device sent a Re-INVITE packet back to CC to re-invite the call as a T.38 fax call. This explains why I'm hearing an intermittent beep tone on the line because the Obi is trying to establish a fax connection with the inbound call.

So it looks like the theories presented here that the issue had nothing to do with the Obi device are not correct. The Obi is sending a re-INVITE packet back to CallCentric after the call has been answered. All calls I have tested are coming in from a standard mobile phone, not from a fax machine.

The CallCentric support team was not able to determine why the re-INVITE message is being sent, they could just confirm that it was sent from the device. They sent me a couple of suggested configuration settings to see if it would resolve the problem. After making the suggested settings (see below), I no longer have the issue, even with the latest v5695EX firmware. The answering machine is working fine again.

If anyone is interested in trying the settings to see if it resolves the issue with your answering machine, here they are. I only had to change a couple of these as a couple of them were already set the way they suggested. Based on the suggested settings, I'm guessing that the fax capability will no longer work. For me that's not an issue as I never use the line for faxes. But it may be an issue for others, so fair warning.  

---Codec Profile A & B---

FAX Event Section
- Enable: unchecked (mine was already unchecked)

Codec Settings Section
- T38Enable: Unchecked (mine was checked)
- T38Redundancy: 0 (mine was set to 2)

---ITSP Profile X (The Callcentric one eg. ITSP B)---

SIP Sub-section
- X_SessionRefresh: Unchecked (mine was already unchecked)
- X_FaxPassThroughSignal: None (mine was set to ReINVITE)

What I still need to determine is "why" the Obi is sending the packet trying to re-establish the call as a fax. I will try creating a support ticket with Obihai to see if they can determine what might have changed in the recent firmware versions that is causing the issue. I'll post here again if I find anything new.

Update: 11/08/17: Since this post is getting referenced many times now, I figured I would provide an update based on the most recent v5757EX firmware experience. With the recent Google Voice backing off issues, I installed the v5757EX firmware and performed a factory reset. After the factory reset and fresh new configuration I tested my answering machine. The fax Re-INVITE issue is still there. Changing the following one setting corrected the issue. I didn't need to change all of the settings I listed above.

---Codec Profile A & B---
Codec Settings Section
- T38Enable: Unchecked (mine was checked)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 01:00:40 pm by chilirock » Logged
NomadTech
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Posts: 3


« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2017, 08:01:56 am »

Update: I created a new support ticket with CallCentric when I found that the issue with the answering machine occurs with inbound calls to CallCentric, but not inbound calls to Google Voice. They had me send them the date/time stamps of a couple of calls where I had the issue.

CallCentric support was able to review the call logs from their end and determine that the reason that I am hearing the beeps is that about 30 seconds into the call (e.g. after the Obi answers the call and after the answering machine plays the outgoing message) the Obi device sent a Re-INVITE packet back to CC to re-invite the call as a T.38 fax call. This explains why I'm hearing an intermittent beep tone on the line because the Obi is trying to establish a fax connection with the inbound call.

So it looks like the theories presented here that the issue had nothing to do with the Obi device are not correct. The Obi is sending a re-INVITE packet back to CallCentric after the call has been answered. All calls I have tested are coming in from a standard mobile phone, not from a fax machine.

The CallCentric support team was not able to determine why the re-INVITE message is being sent, they could just confirm that it was sent from the device. They sent me a couple of suggested configuration settings to see if it would resolve the problem. After making the suggested settings (see below), I no longer have the issue, even with the latest v5695EX firmware. The answering machine is working fine again.

If anyone is interested in trying the settings to see if it resolves the issue with your answering machine, here they are. I only had to change a couple of these as a couple of them were already set the way they suggested. Based on the suggested settings, I'm guessing that the fax capability will no longer work. For me that's not an issue as I never use the line for faxes. But it may be an issue for others, so fair warning. 

---Codec Profile A & B---

FAX Event Section
- Enable: unchecked (mine was already unchecked)

Codec Settings Section
- T38Enable: Unchecked (mine was checked)
- T38Redundancy: 0 (mine was set to 2)

---ITSP Profile X (The Callcentric one eg. ITSP B)---

SIP Sub-section
- X_SessionRefresh: Unchecked (mine was already unchecked)
- X_FaxPassThroughSignal: None (mine was set to ReINVITE)

What I still need to determine is "why" the Obi is sending the packet trying to re-establish the call as a fax. I will try creating a support ticket with Obihai to see if they can determine what might have changed in the recent firmware versions that is causing the issue. I'll post here again if I find anything new.


I had the same situation, but the issue appeared only like 2 weeks ago without doing any changes. Everything was good before.
Solution provided works and now my answering records messages again.
Thank you for providing this solution.
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NewAtObi
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Posts: 3


« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2017, 07:00:31 pm »

Thank you, chilirock!

I had the same problem, only I'm using the PhonePower service.

I really appreciate that you took the time to post the solution. It is a big help. I also appreciate your calmness above as other posters were completely disregarding your experience in favor of their own incorrect guesses. Nice job.

Have a great day, and thanks again!

Steven
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JohnE
Newbie
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Posts: 2


« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2017, 04:28:30 pm »

Thank you too, chilrock.  This solution works.  OBIhai owes you an apology, and an update to firmware to fix this problem.  There response was obviously wrong - something changed in their firmware.

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MrMayor
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Posts: 1


« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 11:37:59 am »

Thank You Guys. I Had received a replacement Obi 200 and after that my Panasonic answering machine stopped working. I put in a very old Panasonic answering machine and it worked fine, so i thought there was an issue with the phone. I returned the phone to Panasonic under warranty, (I had to pay 1 way shipping), and they sent me a new one with 2 additional handsets. But it had the same problem. I have a theory that the exact answer tone on this model is triggering a fax response.
This solution, to change the setting worked. But interestingly enough I was trying to see which one's were important, bec i use fax sometimes, and I ended up putting all the settings back to default and it still works.  Huh
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erichadssorensen
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Posts: 3


« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2017, 12:53:37 pm »

Chilirock,

The recommended changes did not solve my issue.  Do you by chance have the other options that were suggested by your voice provider?

Thanks - Eric
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chilirock
Jr. Member
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Posts: 52


« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2017, 08:18:39 am »

erichadssorensen,

Sorry to hear that the changes didn't resolve your issue. Can you tell me which changes specifically that you tried? Did you try reverting back to firmware v5491(http://fw.obihai.com/OBi202-3-1-1-5491.fw) to see if that resolves the issue? Or did you try changing the codec setttings using the latest firmware v5695EX?

If the older firmware works, you can try flashing to the latest firmware, then performing a factory reset on the Obi, then configuring the Obi from scratch, and finally making the codec settings to disable T.38 fax. That's what I did on my Obi200 device. BTW, what Obi device and answering machine are you using? If you post these, others might be able to weigh in on what worked for them.
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erichadssorensen
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Posts: 3


« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2017, 05:28:24 am »

Hi Chilirock,

I've got an OBI200 and currently a Panasonic Dect6.0 (KX-TG572) phone.  I had an AT&T phone and tried replacing it thinking it may be the culprit.  The fax sound occurs when the answering maching/phone answers on the 4th ring.  If I set it to pickup on the 2nd or 3rd ring it's fine.  So, I first tried updating the Codec and SIP changes with the OBI having the most recent firmware.  No Luck.

I then reverted back to firmware 3.1.1 (Build: 5491) and tried again though I didn't default all the settings for Codec/SIP.  Still no luck.

Thoughts anyone?
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chilirock
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Posts: 52


« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2017, 06:37:37 pm »

erichadssorensen,

I'm no sure why reverting back to the older firmware didn't help. My only thought is that when you revert back to older firmware, that the Obi may be trying to map the current settings to the older firmware. If you want to try to reproduce my results, first upgrade to the latest, then perform a factory reset and start the config again like you did when it was new.

Who is your service provider? When I was testing various combinations I tried calling my Google Voice number directly without having it forwarded to CallCentric. When I did this, I didn't have the issue. It was only with my Google Voice number forwarded to my CallCentric number that I had the issue.
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