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What makes a telephone ring?

Started by bilagaana, June 21, 2017, 02:35:46 PM

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bilagaana

Please excuse this long preamble, but my question proceeds directly from the issue: I've had an OBi202 with Google Voice installed and functioning normally--ringing my home phones--since April. Yesterday I came home and found that all calls were going directly only to my PC and none of the handsets were ringing. [Yes, I know about checking the Google Chat box, the ringers were on, the GV number is active, I consulted all the previous My Phone Is Not Ringing posts on this forum, etc., etc.] Oddly, there were dialtones on all the handsets and I could still make outgoing calls. Half of yesterday and most of today were consumed with trying to resolve this. OBi tech support was responsive and patient but none of the proposed fixes worked and in the end I was able to troubleshoot the issue myself: Directly connecting a base unit to the OBi rings the base unit and all associated handsets. Connecting through a wall port results in no ringing.

Here's my question: Given that there were still dialtones and it was still possible to make outgoing calls, is it more likely that there is a fault somewhere in my home phone wiring? Or, might there be a loss of power such that there is enough to transmit the voice signal but not enough to ring the phone? If that is even possible, is that a drop in power from the OBi's adapter? (All base units and handsets are on house power, also.)

Before I commence with the YouTube school of home telephone wiring, I'd like to know if my effort would be better spent elsewhere.

Thanks.   

drgeoff

Properly working house wiring has minimal effect on the ringing performance.

In terms of how ringing and house wiring work it is simple.  The OBi (or the local office in the case of a POTS line) puts about 70 volts AC at a few tens of Hz between two wires.  Any phones plugged in are across those two wires.  That voltage is used directly or indirectly to activate the sounder in the phone.

Your first step should be to ensure that your house wiring is properly disconnected from all other wiring such as a telco line which may previously have provided POTS.  It is quite possible for wires between a property and the telco local office which have lain unused since POTS service was terminated to be reconnected to something, somewhere else.  Not only can this give rise to problems such as you are experiencing, it can lead to permanent damage to your OBi.

Lavarock7

Any chance you have enabled 'do not disturb' or something like that?
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bilagaana

Quote from: Lavarock7 on June 21, 2017, 04:22:57 PM
Any chance you have enabled 'do not disturb' or something like that?

Nope. All settings, insofar as I could tell by reviewing OBi tutorials, setup instructions and suggestions from tech support, were correct and unchanged.

As I said: The issue is that all the phones stopped ringing suddenly after three months of normal operation, in the absence of any changes to any settings, and while connected to a wall port (the OBi was connected to a wall port upstairs).

When one of the base units (I have two cordless systems, each with a base and up to four handsets) was connected directly to the OBi SP1 port, it and all of its associated handsets resumed ringing.

A second base unit still connected to a separate wall port in another part of the house had also stopped ringing and hasn't resumed.

Throughout all of it, though, all phones still had a dial tone and I could still make outgoing calls. They just never rang for an incoming call.

That last part is the root of my question: Clearly they're communicating with the OBi or I wouldn't have a dial tone or be able to make calls, right? Nonetheless, no ringing on incoming calls until I connected the one base unit to the OBi directly. Someting is hinkey and I don't know what.

As things stand, I am leaving the one base unit plugged into the OBi so that I have ringing phones in at least half the house.

SteveInWA

What's "hinky" is exactly what DrGeoff described:  a problem with your house wiring.  If the phone (via its base station) rings when plugged directly into the OBi, then the phone and the OBi are both working properly and don't have any role in this failure.

Either your house wiring is still connected to the telephone company's outside wiring, or there is a poor connection or wiring error somewhere in the wiring in the walls.  If you have the electrical troubleshooting skills to trace the connections throughout the house, you should be able to find it.

In the USA, depending on when the house was built, there is typically a multi-conductor cable running through the walls, and then each phone jack is tapped into those wires in a "daisy chain" or parallel fashion.  Two conductors are used per line, known as "tip" and "ring"  (these terms refer to an old telephone switchboard phone jack, with a metal tip, and then an insulator, and then a "ring" of metal).  I attached a diagram below.

There are three states that can exist on each two-wire pair:  on-hook, off-hook, and ringing.  On hook is roughly 48VDC, and off-hook drops to roughly 12VDC.  Ringing, as Geoff pointed out, superimposes a ~70-80VAC signal over those same two wires.  In the olden days, that AC voltage caused the electromechanical bell coil in the telephone to move the little metal striker against the bell.  Nowadays, it just tells the integrated circuit in the phone to generate the ring.

Bottom line, the two-wire pair needs to be solidly connected, with no corrosion or breaks, and no mistakes in wiring, such that it is crossed with one of the other wire pairs.

If this is too hard to troubleshoot, just abandon the house wiring and use one DECT 6.0 cordless base station with as many handsets as you need around the house.

bilagaana

Quote from: SteveInWA on June 21, 2017, 08:14:10 PM

Either your house wiring is still connected to the telephone company's outside wiring, or there is a poor connection or wiring error somewhere in the wiring in the walls.  If you have the electrical troubleshooting skills to trace the connections throughout the house, you should be able to find it.

I really appreciate the responses and info.

Below is (assuming I uploaded it correctly) a pic of the box on the side of my 80's vintage house labeled "TELEPHONE". The cable with the alligator clips is the pair attached to the wall jack in the room where the OBi is located. Beyond that, I'm not sure where any of the other wires are going. I take it my first priority should be to make certain my system is disconnected from any telco wiring. Is there a standard connection scheme for this type of installation, which would tell me which conductors are most likely to be incoming from the telco and which are more likely to be routed to the rest of the house?

Thanks, again.


SteveInWA

I can't tell, because the wires are so dirty, it's difficult to be sure.  You should be able to identify a two-wire or four-wire cable that doesn't look like the indoor, eight-conductor cable shown in my diagram.  It will probably have a different-looking insulation.  The four objects in your photo with the UL logo are lightning arrestors.  The wires from the telco are attached there.  One or more 8-conductor cables will be attached to the other side of that block.  The 8-conductor cables go to the house wiring.  You'd need a meter or "toner" to trace the cables.

You can do an internet search of phrases like "telephone demarcation box" or "demarc box" or similar, to see photos.

azrobert

The wires on the left look like the house wiring. A solid color wire is paired with a wire with alternating white and the same color, as shown in Steve's diagram. I only see 2 house wires connected to the left terminals. I would disconnect those 2 wires and connect them directly to the wires going to the OBi. Now test the house phones. If you don't have service in parts of the house, disconnect any other wires on the left terminals and connect them to the OBi wires. I assume the wires on the right terminals are to Telco.

This is how I wired my house. I disconnected the house wiring from the demarcation box and left the Telco wires connected.

SteveInWA

Quote from: azrobert on June 22, 2017, 03:52:06 PM

This is how I wired my house. I disconnected the house wiring from the demarcation box and left the Telco wires connected.


The problem with assuming that, is that the photo doesn't adequately show every wire coming into and going out of the box.  The wires on either side of the lightning arrestors look brown to me.  Perhaps cleaning things with some spray contact cleaner would better show the color scheme. 

In the case of my house's demarc box, for example, there were several different in-house loops that were joined at the demarc box.  There was also a kludge of splices using 3M Scotchlok connectors.  Simply disconnecting everything at the demarc box breaks all but one of the loops' connections to the rest of the house.

It's at least one way to start troubleshooting, but I'd be careful to label and photograph every wire before starting to take things apart.

bilagaana

All good suggestions. I've acquired a line tester and plan to clean up the wires and identify which go to which telephone jack. All this will take a while but I appreciate the help and will report back as soon as possible.