911 Calls

Started by Alex816, February 17, 2012, 09:40:43 PM

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jimates

If you have a land line in service, and have a Obi110, it wouldn't matter. You would just use 911 on the land line.

For multiple Obi's you split the line ahead of the Obi's and connect the same line to all of them. I have 3 Obi's with 5 google voice numbers; and one NetTalk Duo connected to all 3.

The problem is when both SP's are set up with google voice there is no option for a sip provider to use for 911. So you would either need another Obi or a landline.

Stewart

Quote from: omegaroach on March 14, 2012, 04:06:18 PMIf I have 2 Obi's then I would have to have 2 seperate phone lines correct?
If you are using Callcentric, Anveo or any other SIP provider that accepts unregistered (but authenticated) calls, or that accepts multiple registrations with the same credentials, you could configure multiple OBi devices to use the same SIP account for 911.  Of course, that makes sense only if the devices are at the same physical address.

MichiganTelephone

Quote from: pigpile on February 26, 2012, 05:40:27 PM
is this a forum or a lecture hall?

THANK YOU!!!  There are some people on this forum that really need to stop trying to impose their beliefs and values on others.  Not everyone thinks that "being safe" should be a top priority in life.  We're all going to die someday, and to be honest I'd rather do it BEFORE I'm so old and feeble that I hate every second of my continued existence on this planet.

It's like the people who try to sell alarm systems.  "Aren't you worried that... blah blah blah (this or that bad thing might happen)."  No, I'm not.  No, additional safety is not worth an extra so many cents (or dollars) a day to me.  There are plenty of people who spend half their lives worrying about bad things that might happen to them, and if that's the way they want to live it's their choice, but I REALLY wish they'd stop trying to push all their fears onto the rest of us.  It's okay to ask how to get a certain grade of 911 service if that's what YOU want, but it's NOT okay to lecture others that they should make the same choice you have.

(I'm not saying that people should have total disregard for safety, but there is a happy medium in there somewhere.  I'm just waiting for the day the "safety nannies" get every sport banned because sports are inherently unsafe.  And I don't just mean contact sports like football - people have been killed while playing just about every sport there is, either due to slips and falls, or getting beaned in the head with a ball or other object.  Some people won't be happy until we all live in padded rubber rooms and eat nothing but bland vegetables).
Inactive, no longer posting or responding to messages.  Goodbye and good luck.  Some of my old Obihai-related blog posts have been moved to http://tech.iprock.com - note this in NOT my blog; I have simply given the owner permission to repost some of my old stuff.

omegaroach

Quote from: jimates on March 14, 2012, 06:28:14 PM
If you have a land line in service, and have a Obi110, it wouldn't matter. You would just use 911 on the land line.

I understand this part.  I don't have a landline though (trying to avoid getting one if possible)

Quote from: jimates on March 14, 2012, 06:28:14 PM
For multiple Obi's you split the line ahead of the Obi's and connect the same line to all of them. I have 3 Obi's with 5 google voice numbers; and one NetTalk Duo connected to all 3.

So whatever e911 service I choose, I just add to all the OBI's I have. I don't need a seperate contract for each OBI.

So I split coming from the router to the OBI, but then coming out of the OBI do I need to have seperate phones from each OBI?

I have a base unit with 6 wireless phones that I am using.  I assume I would need another base unit to connect to the second OBI. correct?

Quote from: jimates on March 14, 2012, 06:28:14 PM
The problem is when both SP's are set up with google voice there is no option for a sip provider to use for 911. So you would either need another Obi or a landline.
I understand this part too.  And I do have 2 google voice numbers set up.  Now that I think about it might be beneficial to have a third (one for me, on for the wife, and one for home). But would I then need 3 seperate physical phones?

Stewart

If you want two concurrent calls, there are several options:

1. Least expensive would be a second base unit compatible with your existing handsets.  You would register some phones to one and some to the other, effectively making two "strings", one connected to each OBi.  You could set it up so incoming calls to either GV number would ring all phones.  A second call would ring the phones on the idle string, or you could answer from the active phone (call waiting).  Likewise, when one phone is in use, you could make a new call from a phone on the other string, using either GV account.

2. Replace the existing phones with a two-line cordless system.  Then, when one phone is in use, you could make and receive calls on any other.

3. Get an IP phone system, e.g. Gigaset A580 IP (or better), or Panasonic KX-TGP550 series.  The OBi devices would then essentially be just protocol converters for GV.

With option 2 or 3, you could put a third GV account on one of the OBi devices.  For option 1, if you wanted all phones to have access to SIP (for 911 or a low-cost international provider), you could have the third number be with a SIP provider, have it come in via e.g. an IPKall DID, or you would need a third OBi.

jimates

#25
If one of the Obi's is a 110 you can connect the second Obi's phone port to the Obi110's line port. This will ring the  phone(s) connected to the Obi110 for all calls coming in on both devices.

To access the services on the second Obi you would press # on the phone handset. Since the Obi110's default for 911 is the line port, 911 calls would go out on the second Obi using whatever service is set as default.

As Stewart pointed out, concurrent calls are not possible with this setup.

You can, but I do not recommend, daisy chain more than two devices.



I have a Uniden 6 handset phone system on one Obi, and 2 with single handsets on each of the other 2. The handsets can be associated with multiple bases but only a max of 6 handsets associated per base. So even with multiple bases I could only have max. 6 handsets associated with each one at any one time.

Example:
Uniden base #1 - 6 handsets
Uniden base #2 - 3 handsets + 3 handsets from base #1
Uniden base #3 - 3 handsets + remaining 3 handsets from Base #1

You manually choose which base you want to connect to. Handsets only connect to one base at a time so it will receive or place calls on which ever base was last selected by the user.

The new Uniden systems allow 12 handsets (older handsets not compatible with new systems).



For a concurrent calling setup you could have 2 Obi's with 2 phone bases. Associate all 6 handsets with both bases but select base #1 for use. Set the second Obi to fork all calls to the first Obi. Incoming calls on both Obi's will ring all phones. When the phones are in use they will display "Line in Use" and you can select the other base and place your call. There are many variations that can be used to set something like this up, and if you use SIP services on the second Obi that allow you to set the outgoing caller id, all outgoing calls can carry the same caller id number.

Rick

Quote from: MichiganTelephone on March 14, 2012, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: pigpile on February 26, 2012, 05:40:27 PM
is this a forum or a lecture hall?

THANK YOU!!!  There are some people on this forum that really need to stop trying to impose their beliefs and values on others.  Not everyone thinks that "being safe" should be a top priority in life.  We're all going to die someday, and to be honest I'd rather do it BEFORE I'm so old and feeble that I hate every second of my continued existence on this planet.

It's like the people who try to sell alarm systems.  "Aren't you worried that... blah blah blah (this or that bad thing might happen)."  No, I'm not.  No, additional safety is not worth an extra so many cents (or dollars) a day to me.  There are plenty of people who spend half their lives worrying about bad things that might happen to them, and if that's the way they want to live it's their choice, but I REALLY wish they'd stop trying to push all their fears onto the rest of us.  It's okay to ask how to get a certain grade of 911 service if that's what YOU want, but it's NOT okay to lecture others that they should make the same choice you have.

(I'm not saying that people should have total disregard for safety, but there is a happy medium in there somewhere.  I'm just waiting for the day the "safety nannies" get every sport banned because sports are inherently unsafe.  And I don't just mean contact sports like football - people have been killed while playing just about every sport there is, either due to slips and falls, or getting beaned in the head with a ball or other object.  Some people won't be happy until we all live in padded rubber rooms and eat nothing but bland vegetables).

I don't know how you can equate E911 services with safety nannies, wearing helmets on motorcyles, or similar.  Even alarm systems.  I do agree that lecturing should not be done on these forums, but informing those unfamiliar with the situation, and possible consequences, should be done IMHO.  I didn't get my alarm system monitored to be safer.  Someone breaking into my home and hearing the alarm has no idea if it's monitored or not, so they likely make a quick escape because they don't know.  Monitoring of smoke/CO isn't really safer (unless I'm overcome and not able to hear the alarm).  Monitoring allows me to save money on my insurance, resulting in a net saving (Insurance savings is > than monitoring costs), so I make a profit AND know that when I'm not home the house is "being watched".  E911 really impacts two things - 1) the caller is not able to speak and 2) the caller doesn't know the physical address or the operator doesn't understand the physical address or types it in wrong.  E911 eliminates those issues for $1.50 a month. 

Just a thought, maybe you should have a liability waiver for all visitors to your home.

"Warning - if you have to call 911 while in my home, the 911 operator will not receive location data automatically which they then incorporate into a mapping service to most efficiently dispatch emergency services.  Therefore, it's possible that if you, as a guest in my home, cannot provide the correct address, or the dispatcher misunderstands the address that you do provide, that emergency services may be delayed in their response, and possibly may adversely effect your health and well-being.  Your signature on this form releases me, and my estate, from all liability if your health and well-being is adversely effected".   ;)

MichiganTelephone

Quote from: Rick on March 15, 2012, 07:12:30 AMJust a thought, maybe you should have a liability waiver for all visitors to your home.

"Warning - if you have to call 911 while in my home, the 911 operator will not receive location data automatically which they then incorporate into a mapping service to most efficiently dispatch emergency services.  Therefore, it's possible that if you, as a guest in my home, cannot provide the correct address, or the dispatcher misunderstands the address that you do provide, that emergency services may be delayed in their response, and possibly may adversely effect your health and well-being.  Your signature on this form releases me, and my estate, from all liability if your health and well-being is adversely effected".   ;)

Just a thought, maybe flying unicorns should land on my lawn and fart gold coins.

THAT'S as likely to happen as what you suggested.

Here's another thought:  Maybe you should stay home, in your nice monitored home with the alarm system, and not ever go visit anyone else.  Because, you know, maybe the person you're visiting is like most people and hardly gives a thought to safety unless they are standing next to the edge of a cliff or something.  If people like you would stay home, the rest of us wouldn't need to worry that you might try to use our phones.

Or better yet, you could bring your own cell phone, which will always have 911 access.

Before we get too carried away here, let me explain my objection to this whole e911 business.  Basically, I see it as a money grab by the incumbent phone companies.  They soak local governments for the 911 trunks (and in some cases the equipment) and then they turn around and soak local phone users.  But in my opinion, that's an unfair distribution of the costs, because it puts the brunt of the expense on phone users.  In the old days, at least there was usually only one change per household but nowadays with both parents plus the kids carrying cell phones, and maybe a landline or commercial VoIP service, they may get soaked for the 911 charge multiple times.  Meanwhile the homeless guy on the street pays nothing.

But here's the problem, e911 benefits EVERYONE.  So really, it should be funded in the same way that public sidewalks or bike paths are funded, which is to say, everyone able to pay should contribute their fair share, and not a penny more.  If someone gets into a car accident outside your home and you call 911, they get the benefit whether they have ever paid a dime toward 911 funding or not.  If police and fire departments can be funded from taxes, why not e911?  As a bonus, government would have more incentive to make the phone companies justify their costs, instead of just letting them claim they need to charge every customer so much per line.  The real inequity is where you have a factory or store with maybe 25 employees or more, but they only have one incoming phone line so they pay one e911 charge, yet the family of five that is barely scraping by might be paying five or six e911 charges.  So when I hear preachy people try to convince people that they simply MUST have e911, I always wonder in the back of my mind if they aren't telephone company shills (or stockholders) trying to fatten their own wallets.  I realize not every e911 proponent has a financial stake in getting people to pay more and more for the service, but that's the point, we don't know what motivates people to stick their nose in other people's business, and very often that reason is in some way self-serving.
Inactive, no longer posting or responding to messages.  Goodbye and good luck.  Some of my old Obihai-related blog posts have been moved to http://tech.iprock.com - note this in NOT my blog; I have simply given the owner permission to repost some of my old stuff.

jimates

#28
Not that I was concerned, but I did bring up what I thought would be a big "safety concern" for those people that are 911 fanatics. My concern was dismissed as unimportant and of no concern by anyone else.

Obi's speed dial process will interfere with calling any number, including 911. If you delay while dialing 911 the Obi will dial the number stored in the corresponding speed dial location. If there is no number in that speed dial location the Obi will return "there is no call route available ......).
I think you should have to press # or * before the Obi will process the speed dial.

So make sure you are not injured or choking on smoke so bad that you can't dial the 3 digits without a 2 second delay. But look at the bright side, maybe whoever answers from speed dialing 9 knows your address and can call 911 for you.

RonR

Quote from: jimates on March 15, 2012, 01:15:08 PM
Not that I was concerned, but I did bring up what I thought would be a big "safety concern" for those people that are 911 fanatics. My concern was dismissed as unimportant and of no concern by anyone else.

Obi's speed dial process will interfere with calling any number, including 911. If you delay while dialing 911 the Obi will dial the number stored in the corresponding speed dial location. If there is no number in that speed dial location the Obi will return "there is no call route available ......).

Actually, your concerns were addressed by Obihai with a revised Speed Dial rule in the PHONE Port DigitMap:

|[1-9]S9|[1-9][0-9]S9|

You now have 9 seconds after dialing 1 or 2 digits before the Speed Dial activates (if you don't terminate your dialing with a #).

jimates

#30
mine still dials after 2 seconds. I had modified that digit map early on and didn't know about any "fix".

But still no one else was concerned when I mentioned it.

richardcoop

Is it possible to program the Obi to speed dial a number, than when the number answers, select an option? For instance the direct non 911 number for the 911 emergency service where I live is:  757 385 5000 than press option "1" .

jimates

Quote from: RonR on March 15, 2012, 01:38:35 PM
Quote from: jimates on March 15, 2012, 01:15:08 PM
Not that I was concerned, but I did bring up what I thought would be a big "safety concern" for those people that are 911 fanatics. My concern was dismissed as unimportant and of no concern by anyone else.

Obi's speed dial process will interfere with calling any number, including 911. If you delay while dialing 911 the Obi will dial the number stored in the corresponding speed dial location. If there is no number in that speed dial location the Obi will return "there is no call route available ......).

Actually, your concerns were addressed by Obihai with a revised Speed Dial rule in the PHONE Port DigitMap:

|[1-9]S9|[1-9][0-9]S9|

You now have 9 seconds after dialing 1 or 2 digits before the Speed Dial activates (if you don't terminate your dialing with a #).

Fixed it. I have a custom digit map for second dial tones, so I had to manually input the changes.
Thanks RonR.

RonR

Quote from: richardcoop on March 16, 2012, 06:13:09 AM
Is it possible to program the Obi to speed dial a number, than when the number answers, select an option? For instance the direct non 911 number for the 911 emergency service where I live is:  757 385 5000 than press option "1" .

No such capability exists.

sic0048

Quote from: MichiganTelephone on March 14, 2012, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: pigpile on February 26, 2012, 05:40:27 PM
is this a forum or a lecture hall?

THANK YOU!!!  There are some people on this forum that really need to stop trying to impose their beliefs and values on others.  Not everyone thinks that "being safe" should be a top priority in life.  We're all going to die someday, and to be honest I'd rather do it BEFORE I'm so old and feeble that I hate every second of my continued existence on this planet.


Even if you live alone in a detached home, you probably have visitors come by your house.  Therefore you are being pretty hypocritical because while you can choose to ignore forum posts, someone in your house does not have the same ability to make their own choices regarding 911 service.  YOU made the decision to not have 911 location services.  Even if they can pick up the phone and dial 911 (no guarantee that they can), most guests won't have your full address memorized to be able to provide it to the 911 operator.  Talk about pushing your beliefs on someone - just because you believe that nothing will happen doesn't mean it won't.

You probably don't wear your seatbelt either or a helmet while riding a motorcycle and claim that you are only effecting yourself by those decisions. ;)

I'm all about saving a buck.  This is why I looked at the Obi system and dropped my landline phone.  But having 911 service with your location being automatically provided is the de facto standard in the US now and by not providing it you are putting people at risk.  It's just too inexpensive to be worth the gamble IMHO.   

synchron

Am I missing something?  I dropped my landline almost 8 yrs ago and switched to voip.  Even though my local phone co. shut the service down I can still use any phone, connect it to the RJ in the wall and have 911 service.  There's no dialtone, per say, but you still get a live operator, probably the same as paid e911 service.  No Obi ATA or need be involved and no bill from Ma Bell.

I thought this was a federal law to provide free 911 or am I just "lucky"?

Synchron  8)

Stewart

Quote from: synchron on March 22, 2012, 12:03:30 PMThere's no dialtone, per say, but you still get a live operator, probably the same as paid e911 service.  No Obi ATA or need be involved and no bill from Ma Bell.  I thought this was a federal law to provide free 911 or am I just "lucky"?
The rules vary by state.  In which one are you?

In California, a "disconnected" line has dial tone.  You can call 911, or 611 (for repair, if your line got this way by mistake), or 811 (if you didn't pay the bill, or to order new service).  All other calls are sent to a recording that explains the above three options.  With such a line, I'd be concerned that it could fail, or be accidentally disconnected when the pair was reused to provide service to someone else.  You could make a test call every month or two (to the recording), to have some confidence that the line would be available, should it be needed in an emergency.

I very much doubt that you would be routed directly to a PSAP just by going off-hook -- there would be too many false calls caused by testing, accidental shorts, etc.  I suggest that you pick up the phone as a test.  If you do get the PSAP, immediately state that you don't have an emergency and are just testing; don't hang up until they confirm this.  Otherwise, ask the operator what your options are, and whether it would be ok to do a periodic test.

synchron

The phone I use for the wall (seperate from the Wireless Uniden system I use with voip) is pretty old with a pulse dialer.  But, you're right, there is a faint dialtone and if I dial a 7digit number I get a recording but it comes in loud and clear.  The recording pretty much says no service.  I dialed '611' and got an AT&T gal and she reassured me that 911 can definitely be used ICOE.  She was very friendly and was able to read out my location (street address, unit#, town) but not my name via CLID.  I'm in Southern CA.

synchron  8)

Rick

My line in Michigan was dead, no faint dial tone.  California is very progressive...

MichiganTelephone

Quote from: sic0048 on March 22, 2012, 09:40:46 AM
Quote from: MichiganTelephone on March 14, 2012, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: pigpile on February 26, 2012, 05:40:27 PM
is this a forum or a lecture hall?

THANK YOU!!!  There are some people on this forum that really need to stop trying to impose their beliefs and values on others.  Not everyone thinks that "being safe" should be a top priority in life.  We're all going to die someday, and to be honest I'd rather do it BEFORE I'm so old and feeble that I hate every second of my continued existence on this planet.


Even if you live alone in a detached home, you probably have visitors come by your house.  Therefore you are being pretty hypocritical because while you can choose to ignore forum posts, someone in your house does not have the same ability to make their own choices regarding 911 service.  YOU made the decision to not have 911 location services.  Even if they can pick up the phone and dial 911 (no guarantee that they can), most guests won't have your full address memorized to be able to provide it to the 911 operator.  Talk about pushing your beliefs on someone - just because you believe that nothing will happen doesn't mean it won't.

If I go to someone else's home I make NO assumptions about what safety provisions they may or may not have made.  Maybe it's the neighborhood I live in but I get the distinct impression that most of the people around here are not super concerned about safety.  I like living here!

Quote from: sic0048 on March 22, 2012, 09:40:46 AMYou probably don't wear your seatbelt either or a helmet while riding a motorcycle and claim that you are only effecting yourself by those decisions. ;)

Actually, I wore a motorcycle helmet back before it was illegal to ride without one.  And I didn't give a damn if that made me seem "uncool" among my peers — I valued my noggin more than their approval.  But if the only way I'd have been able to obtain a motorcycle helmet was to rent one and pay a monthly fee, I'd probably have gone without it or just given up motorcycle riding.

Quote from: sic0048 on March 22, 2012, 09:40:46 AMI'm all about saving a buck.  This is why I looked at the Obi system and dropped my landline phone.  But having 911 service with your location being automatically provided is the de facto standard in the US now and by not providing it you are putting people at risk.  It's just too inexpensive to be worth the gamble IMHO.

At risk of becoming one of the "lecturers", I'll just say this: You're making quite an assumption there about a "de facto standard."  How do you know that the person you visit has any landline service at all?  If they have a cell phone, how do you know that it's charged up and usable?

Believe me, it's not an academic question.  A huge percentage, perhaps even a majority of people under 30 have no landline phone service, and rely on cell phones exclusively.  And that age is creeping upwards as people age - I expect it will be true of people under 40 and maybe even under 50 real soon now, if it isn't already.

So if you are really THAT concerned about safety, you'll carry your own cell phone wherever you go, and you'll always have a way to charge it up.  Because if you make unwarranted assumptions about people you visit, those assumptions could cost you your life!
Inactive, no longer posting or responding to messages.  Goodbye and good luck.  Some of my old Obihai-related blog posts have been moved to http://tech.iprock.com - note this in NOT my blog; I have simply given the owner permission to repost some of my old stuff.