December 11, 2017, 08:40:52 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
News:
 
   Forum Home   Search Login Register OBiTALK  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: A bit of advice for new users  (Read 21830 times)
MichiganTelephone
OBi110 Beta Testers
***
Posts: 484


« on: March 23, 2012, 09:57:25 am »

I just discovered this board and assume it is newly created.  So, this is for the new OBi device users:

Welcome to the OBiTALK forum!  This is a great place to get help and advice on any issues you may be having.  But there are a few pitfalls you may wish to avoid.

First of all, there are users on here that have very high post counts that believe they know the "correct" way to configure an Obihai device.  It may be "correct" for them, but remember, they live and breathe these devices, and they may give you advice that would possibly be valid for other expert users, but is questionable at best when it comes to new users.  In other words, they may be asking you to do things the hard way when there is a much easier way available!

One of the things you may be told to do is turn off Auto Provisioning or OBiTalk Provisioning.  If you are an expert user and you know what you are doing, and more importantly, what you are giving up by taking that action, that may be valid advice.  For a new user, it's horrible advice.  The biggest problem with it is that you won't be able to use the OBiTALK portal to get firmware updates and/or configure your device.  And for new and inexperienced users (and even for some of us advanced users), the OBiTALK portal is one of the best things about the OBiTALK devices, since it allows you to make configuration changes to your device even from a remote location.  This is especially helpful if you have configured a device for a friend or family member and after you have shipped it to them, you remember some setting you should have changed (it's happened to me!).  All you have to do in such a case is log into the OBiTALK portal and make the change, and then next time they connect the device the change will be made!

The OBiTALK portal also makes it much easier to configure Google Voice and other service provider accounts.  You can use the provided default configurations for Google Voice and several other popular VoIP providers.

And if you need to change individual settings there is an "Expert Configuration" mode that allows you to individually change almost every setting on the device, except for a few having to do with network connectivity (I think they don't want you to be able to make a remote change that would render the device inaccessible from the network).

So if someone tell you to turn off Auto Provisioning or OBiTalk Provisioning and you are not an expert user of these devices, think long and hard before you do that.  The people with the highest post counts on these forums are NOT Obihai employees (nor am I, for that matter) and we all have our own biases and our own ways of doing things.  I just happen to feel that for new users, it is much better to use the OBiTALK portal to do any configuration you may need to do, instead of manually configuring your device.

The other thing I will mention is that when you post a message here, very often the first responses you receive may not be the best responses.  So if you are smart, you won't just take the first answer and think that's all you need to know.  Very often, a discussion ensues that may lead to better solutions for your problem.  It may take days (or occasionally even weeks) for these better responses to appear, so you may wish to continue to monitor any threads you have started (or that you are interested in).

Having said all that, this is mostly a friendly bunch, so have fun with your new Obihai device!
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 10:05:57 am by MichiganTelephone » Logged

Inactive, no longer posting or responding to messages.  Goodbye and good luck.  Some of my old Obihai-related blog posts have been moved to http://tech.iprock.com - note this in NOT my blog; I have simply given the owner permission to repost some of my old stuff.
lhm.
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 331


« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2012, 01:48:42 pm »

Your signature says it all buddy. The message you give above is just a subtle attempt to diminish some of the other members of this forum that have made many helpful contributions to forum members. (Ron R, Stewart and others)

Give it up or take a hike out of here.

Luke

« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 02:01:11 pm by lhm. » Logged
MichiganTelephone
OBi110 Beta Testers
***
Posts: 484


« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2012, 02:16:24 pm »

Your signature says it all buddy. The message you give above is just an subtle attempt to diminish some of the other members of this forum that have made many helpful contributions to forum members. (Ron R, Stewart and others)

Give it up or take a hike out of here.

Luke

Excuse me, are you a forum moderator?  I didn't think so, so you needn't be telling anyone where to go (other than yourself).  And by the way, there was nothing subtle about it.  I think at least one of the people you mentioned is the worst thing that has ever happened to this forum, particularly because he is leading new users who don't know any better down the wrong path.

You should have seen my post before I cleaned it up to remove the more personal references.  Believe me, I'm not in any way trying to be subtle about the fact that I think certain people (one in particular) are like a plague on this forum, even if they are knowledgeable in certain aspects and occasionally help someone.

If only the "know-it-alls" would realize that just because they do things a certain way, that doesn't make it the right way for everyone, and particularly not for new users just getting their feet wet, this would be a much better place.  Also, I can't imagine that Obihai is happy about the fact that one of them tries so hard to discourage people from using a service that they worked hard to create (the OBiTALK portal), or goes into other forums and complains about Obihai behind their back (also here).  So yes, I would like to see other people stop treating such people like some kind of messiah just because they apparently have absolutely nothing better to do with time than post in online forums!
Logged

Inactive, no longer posting or responding to messages.  Goodbye and good luck.  Some of my old Obihai-related blog posts have been moved to http://tech.iprock.com - note this in NOT my blog; I have simply given the owner permission to repost some of my old stuff.
carl
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 457


« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2012, 06:43:31 pm »

We should be nice to each other here. And as far as RonR - he helped me to set up my Obi for Localphone which was a real challenge in my case, something nobody else was either capable of or willing to do. I appreciate any help, wherever it may come from and opposing views and alternative solutions are always very welcome.
Logged
Ostracus
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 581


« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2012, 07:51:05 pm »

...or goes into other forums and complains about Obihai behind their back (also here)...

The issue there seems to be about a "backdoor". Someone reasonably network literate could resolve that question. The issue seems to be "is that capability under owner control"? Not an unreasonable question in this day and time.
Logged
MRTT
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 20


« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2012, 08:36:29 pm »

MichiganTelephone, if you want to actually help out here, just offer up your alternate suggestions when you can.  People can make up their own minds.  This kind of posturing is not constructive.

Putting others down just makes you look like you have a secret agenda.

Is this really "the" MichaganTelephone I know and love and follow?  My respect for you has diminished.


--
MRTT
Logged
MichiganTelephone
OBi110 Beta Testers
***
Posts: 484


« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 02:37:37 am »

MichiganTelephone, if you want to actually help out here, just offer up your alternate suggestions when you can.  People can make up their own minds.  This kind of posturing is not constructive.

Putting others down just makes you look like you have a secret agenda.

There is nothing "secret" about it.  I don't much care for a certain person.  In my opinion he is a pompous know-it-all that spends far more time in forums than anyone should.  When he first showed up here, my perception of him was that he was very abrasive if people disagreed with him or dared not to take his advice.  In my opinion he's probably got that part of his personality a bit more under control (or maybe I've just learned to ignore it) but what upsets me is that he appears to be on this crusade to turn people against the OBiTALK portal (and sometimes I wonder if it goes beyond that).  I'm sure that the Obihai people worked VERY hard to create that portal and it's a great benefit for many users.  But he doesn't consider any of that because he's so convinced that his way is the right way.

My "secret agenda" is to try to maybe make him realize that the portal is a helpful tool for many of us and that it was probably not just knocked out by people who had nothing better to do with their afternoon.  It took a lot of hard work and effort to make such a useful tool.  My sympathies are with the Obihai developers who probably thought they created a wonderful thing (and they did, as far as I'm concerned) and here he comes pissing all over it, just because that's the kind of person he is.  It's his way or the highway, and I for one was damn sick of it months ago.

I know he has helped a lot of people.  I hate to admit it but there have been a very few occasions when something he's written has even helped me.  My goal is NOT to get him to pack up and leave although at this point if he did, I probably wouldn't be that sad about it.  And anyway, he certainly wouldn't do it because I said so, any more than I would do it because someone in this thread said I should.

Here is the other thing: Look at his post count.  This forum has been in existence for what, maybe a year and a half tops?  And he's got close to four thousand posts.  FOUR THOUSAND!!! That averages out to between 16 and 17 posts a day, day in and day out, and that's not even counting his posts in other forums.  Seriously, it feels like nobody else can get a word in edgewise here.  I've seen it happen so many times where someone asks a question and within a half hour he's posted a response.  Did it ever occur to him that maybe there are others in this forum that might like a shot at offering help (and I do NOT mean me, I already have too much to do most days)?  But he doesn't appear to care.  His whole world appears to revolve around him and his opinions and trying to build himself up.  You say to just offer up suggestions when I can.  What, I should post how great I think the OBiTALK portal is?  I could maybe do that once every couple of weeks tops without it getting repetitive.  Meanwhile, he's telling people to turn off auto provisioning and auto firmware updates, without explaining why or what people lose by doing that.  And I'll bet that if I could even keep track of every time he does it and posted an alternate suggestion, you'd think I was the one being contrary!

I guess if I have an agenda it would be to get him to realize that he's not the center of the universe (or even an Obihai employee) and that there are real people whose feelings he's not taking into consideration.  Newbies in particular do NOT need to be shooed away from the portal.  And frankly, I can't have any respect for a guy who wants to play the role of the big hero and helper in here, then goes into other forums and makes backhanded comments about Obihai products.  What, exactly, does he LIKE about Obihai, other than having amassed some followers who think he's a great guy in this forum?

There are people probably too many of us, and I do include myself here that need to get away from the computer more often and get out into the sunshine and among real people, people who will let us know with their facial expressions and their words when we are being overbearing.

Is this really "the" MichaganTelephone I know and love and follow?  My respect for you has diminished.

It's really me, and don't take this the wrong way, but my feeling is that if I'm not allowed to speak what I believe and keep your respect, while someone else (whom I disagree with) is allowed to say what they believe (over and over again),  than f- your respect (and I have ALWAYS felt that way, not just in this situation).  At least I haven't posted what I think or believe four thousand times in the last year and a half. In fact, I'd be amazed if I've posted anything close to four thousand posts in total in all the years I've been on the Internet (I'm not counting e-mails here, just public posts).

I want to make it clear that I fully understand that he's helped a lot of people, and many of those he's helped are very appreciative, and I don't begrudge him that at all.  But at times he also leads people astray, especially when he's helping someone and the first thing he does is tell them to turn off Auto Provisioning/OBiTalk Provisioning. If he want to do that on his own devices that's fine, but he really has no business telling others to do that without explaining the downside.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 10:07:24 am by MichiganTelephone » Logged

Inactive, no longer posting or responding to messages.  Goodbye and good luck.  Some of my old Obihai-related blog posts have been moved to http://tech.iprock.com - note this in NOT my blog; I have simply given the owner permission to repost some of my old stuff.
Rick
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1009


« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 04:47:31 am »

Personal attacks don't belong on this or any other help forum.  If you believe a post is a personal attack, use the button to report it to OBi.  I did.
Logged
MichiganTelephone
OBi110 Beta Testers
***
Posts: 484


« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 09:34:24 am »

This IS a help forum and the intent of my first post WAS to be helpful, but to NEW USERS, not to members of a certain personality cult that seems to have formed on here.  Unless you knew exactly who I was thinking about, you would not even have taken it as a personal attack, and if you knew who I was talking about, then maybe that means I am doing the right thing in warning new users.  I certainly would appreciate a warning of this type if I were new to a forum and didn't know whose advice I could trust!

I suppose you wouldn't think that lhm.'s post qualifies as a personal attack, but it had a decidedly nastier tone than anything I posted and it's also where this thread sort of went off the rails.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 09:39:37 am by MichiganTelephone » Logged

Inactive, no longer posting or responding to messages.  Goodbye and good luck.  Some of my old Obihai-related blog posts have been moved to http://tech.iprock.com - note this in NOT my blog; I have simply given the owner permission to repost some of my old stuff.
carl
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 457


« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 10:50:54 am »

The fact that somebody posts 4500 replies within 18 months is indeed amazing- in a very positive sense. ( I know, because I played an unpaid advisor on a certain forum for a few months till I got fed up). Going through some of those replies for the last 4 months I can only say that 90+ % of them were to the point and at least partially usefull. In such a situation I do not question someone's motives. As a matter of fact Obi should pay certain people here because they provide the level of prompt and sophisticated customer service Obi does not . If it were not for some of those " know it alls with attitude" I would have sent back the device to Amazon and would have given appropriate recommendation on line and more importantly , to my friends.
For me, everyone is welcome who gives a valid advice, help or just information, whatever his motives or attitude might be.
This thread did not get off the rails, it was on the wrong rail to start with. That would have not been the case if the OP was formulated a bit differently.
 
Logged
MichiganTelephone
OBi110 Beta Testers
***
Posts: 484


« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 01:34:40 pm »

Carl, let's just agree that your take on the situation and mine couldn't be more opposite.  I believe that this would be a much more thriving community if certain person(s) didn't monopolize it.  I believe that people would still be helped, but it might be better help and it might come from a more diverse community of helpers.  Maybe you would have received better help on resolving the problems with your device, and maybe not, but we'll never know.  Maybe many of the people who would have become helpers have left because they never got a chance to answer a question before "Mr. Know-It-All" shows up.  And maybe that's creating a situation where if he ever does pack up and leave, there will be no one else here who even knows how to answer the type of questions he's been answering.  The problem with always "letting George do it" is that when George retires or gets sick, no one else knows how to fill in for him.

And, I can't imagine that Obihai would ever consider paying someone who badmouths them in other online forums.  No company I know of would do that.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I couldn't disagree with you more.
Logged

Inactive, no longer posting or responding to messages.  Goodbye and good luck.  Some of my old Obihai-related blog posts have been moved to http://tech.iprock.com - note this in NOT my blog; I have simply given the owner permission to repost some of my old stuff.
MRTT
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 20


« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 06:24:46 pm »

Quote from: MichiganTelephone

There is nothing "secret" about it.  I don't much care for a certain person.
...
Poo on Your public agenda and dislike for certain people.  If you want to be helpful, then do try to be helpful.  Leave the other crap out. 

Quote from: MichiganTelephone
It's really me, and don't take this the wrong way, but my feeling is that if I'm not allowed to speak what I believe and keep your respect, while someone else (whom I disagree with) is allowed to say what they believe (over and over again),  than f- your respect (and I have ALWAYS felt that way, not just in this situation).  At least I haven't posted what I think or believe four thousand times in the last year and a half. In fact, I'd be amazed if I've posted anything close to four thousand posts in total in all the years I've been on the Internet (I'm not counting e-mails here, just public posts).

I want to make it clear that I fully understand that he's helped a lot of people, and many of those he's helped are very appreciative, and I don't begrudge him that at all.  But at times he also leads people astray, especially when he's helping someone and the first thing he does is tell them to turn off Auto Provisioning/OBiTalk Provisioning. If he want to do that on his own devices that's fine, but he really has no business telling others to do that without explaining the downside.

Who is saying you cannot state what you believe?  Not me.  Apparently I cannot state what _I_ believe.  So why don't you practice what you preach?  Me, offering my opinion, that your post is non-helpful is not the same as saying you cannot state what you believe.

The tone of your response exudes jealousy.  So the other guy has nearly 4000 posts, so what?  On each thread just add your 2 cents, if you have something constructive to add.

My unsolicited opinion is that personal attacks here do not help your cause.  You have your own outlets for to make those.

--
MRTT



Logged
MichiganTelephone
OBi110 Beta Testers
***
Posts: 484


« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 08:41:37 pm »

Okay, so you have your opinion.  You don't like me or what I have to say.  Fine, I can live with that.  In case you haven't noticed, being liked by everyone is not one of my primary goals in life.  We have politicians that try to do that and look where it gets them.

I did have to laugh out loud when you postulated that I was somehow jealous.  Jealous of someone who spends all day in front of a computer screen typing post after post?  I can't think of anything I'd enjoy doing less.  Honestly, I resent the time I've put in today answering some of the ridiculous accusations in this thread.

So lets get it out in the open.  A vocal few of you think I'm the ultimate a--hole.  You don't like me, you think I'm wrong, you think the guys that I've warned people about walk on water and can do no wrong and that I must be the devil if I say otherwise.  You think I have ulterior motives other than what I've stated (I wish I knew what those are!).  You wish I would just shut up and go away.  You've made all that abundantly clear.  I understand all that.  But it hasn't changed my mind about what I believe, or my intent to speak my mind when I think it's an appropriate time to do so.

So why are you (those of you that have posted) prolonging this thread?  Oh, maybe it's because you get some satisfaction out of doing the EXACT thing you are accusing me of doing, which is, turning this into a personal attack?  Even if you think I started it (and no matter how you took it, my original message was not intended by me to be anything other than a warning for newbies about taking bad advice), you are doing the EXACT thing you accuse me of when you prolong this ridiculous thread.  Pretty much everyone who has posted in this thread is a hypocrite in my book.

Can we end this now, or does someone else feel they have one last stone to cast?  (That's not an invitation, but I'm sure someone will take it that way).
Logged

Inactive, no longer posting or responding to messages.  Goodbye and good luck.  Some of my old Obihai-related blog posts have been moved to http://tech.iprock.com - note this in NOT my blog; I have simply given the owner permission to repost some of my old stuff.
MRTT
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 20


« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2012, 09:42:34 pm »

MichaganTelephone,

FWIW, I'm fine with your intentions.  In a word, education.  The method, errr, not so much.

I'd personally prefer you to stick around.  Do not include me in the group that wants you gone.  I've never said that.  I'm not trying to change your mind about what you believe either.

The Irony is that I am on your side, and trying to help.

I resent having ever tried to offer any form of constructive criticism.  That you can get your message across without carrying so much baggage along.

--
MRTT

Logged
MichiganTelephone
OBi110 Beta Testers
***
Posts: 484


« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2012, 11:29:28 pm »

The Irony is that I am on your side, and trying to help.

I resent having ever tried to offer any form of constructive criticism.  That you can get your message across without carrying so much baggage along.

I have reread my original post several times (just did it again) and I honestly do not see where I said anything that should cause people to be so offended.  Certainly nothing that deserved lhm.'s response, which sort of set the tone for what followed.  I think people took it the wrong way and I think that happened primarily because certain people have almost built a "cult following" on this board (which I honestly do not see as a good thing for either users or Obihai), and if you say anything even remotely negative about the practices of such people, their faithful followers see it as a personal attack against those people.  It's as if I said that it's a bad idea for people to get hooked on illegal drugs, and immediately the customers of one particular drug dealer took it as a personal attack on their dealer (that's an analogy, by the way I am NOT accusing anyone in this forum of dealing drugs).  Well, if that's how someone wants to see it then that's how they'll see it, but what I was really coming against was the efforts of some to steer users away from using the OBiTALK portal, not attacking anyone on a personal level.  I'm talking specifically about my first post here, not anything that followed after that.

In fact, before I posted the message I actually deleted a couple of things that I thought might be construed as personal attacks, and precisely because I thought that such a thing had no place here.  But once people started attacking me, I felt a bit less charitable.

So while you may have intended your criticism to be constructive, as far as I'm concerned it was misplaced.  And if you won't be happy until I admit that you (and others who have criticized me, "constructively" or otherwise) might be right, then I'm afraid you won't be happy.  In my heart I feel that making that post was the right thing to do, and a few people criticizing me about it aren't going to convince me otherwise.
Logged

Inactive, no longer posting or responding to messages.  Goodbye and good luck.  Some of my old Obihai-related blog posts have been moved to http://tech.iprock.com - note this in NOT my blog; I have simply given the owner permission to repost some of my old stuff.
lhm.
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 331


« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2012, 06:25:17 am »

I see that your signature now has constructive content. That's an improvement.   Kiss
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 06:28:33 am by lhm. » Logged
dudlee
Newbie
*
Posts: 18


« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2012, 08:53:28 am »

I am a relatively new user that only uses the basics ie: GV on SP1 and Callcentric only for E911 service on sp2.  I have set up the OBI as my second telephone line to our regular house phone and do not have any special needs.  I have also set up 2 other OBI's for my kids in college, which has worked out great by the way.

I have chosen to only use the OBI Portal with auto provisioning because that is all I need in my limited use of the device.  If I had to configure the device for much more complicated or advanced uses, I would not hesitate to turn auto provisioning off and use the advice of some very knowledgeable folks on this forum.

One of the things that amazed me about this forum was that there was a group of very knowledgeable people that not only understood the intricacies of the OBI but were willing to help in any way, and I have to say immediately.  The quick helpful responses amazed me.  I don't see the need for chest-pounding and dominance displays.  There is a great wealth of knowledge here that a lot of us newbies need in this area.
Logged
MichiganTelephone
OBi110 Beta Testers
***
Posts: 484


« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2012, 12:15:53 pm »

I am a relatively new user that only uses the basics ie: GV on SP1 and Callcentric only for E911 service on sp2.  I have set up the OBI as my second telephone line to our regular house phone and do not have any special needs.  I have also set up 2 other OBI's for my kids in college, which has worked out great by the way.

I have chosen to only use the OBI Portal with auto provisioning because that is all I need in my limited use of the device.  If I had to configure the device for much more complicated or advanced uses, I would not hesitate to turn auto provisioning off and use the advice of some very knowledgeable folks on this forum.

As long as you understand what you're giving up by doing that, that's fine — it's your device, after all.  The problem is that sometimes new users are simply told to disable it without any explanation, just because the person giving the advice prefers to do that on his own OBi device.  But they don't say it's their personal preference, and in some cases they sort of imply that you need to do it in order to accomplish whatever you're trying to do, which is usually not the case.

One of the things that amazed me about this forum was that there was a group of very knowledgeable people that not only understood the intricacies of the OBI but were willing to help in any way, and I have to say immediately.  The quick helpful responses amazed me.  I don't see the need for chest-pounding and dominance displays.  There is a great wealth of knowledge here that a lot of us newbies need in this area.

All I will say is that yes, there are some very knowledgeable people here, but not all of them are knowledgeable about every single thing having to do with the OBi devices, and where they get into trouble is when they feel obligated to answer every single question posted, without considering that the question asked might be in someone else's area of expertise, but not so much theirs.  For example (and this is not a personal attack, just pointing out something that should be obvious), just because someone is an acknowledged and respected expert on something like Obi dial plans does not necessarily mean that person would the best person to answer questions about technical issues (for example, networking problems).  I learned a long time ago that if someone asks a question and it's not in my area of expertise, I'm better off to let it be and let someone else answer it.  Then if it just sits there for a day or two and no one has responded, I might take a shot at it if I think I can actually contribute something useful, but I'll usually preface it by saying something like "I could be totally wrong about this, but..." or something like that, so at least the other person is aware that I'm not fully confident of my response.

But, like everyone else here, I very much appreciate it when knowledgeable people give knowledgeable responses in areas about which they are very knowledgeable!  Wink  (I'm a lot MORE appreciative when they can do it without a side dish of attitude or condescension, but thankfully that's not a huge problem in this particular forum).
Logged

Inactive, no longer posting or responding to messages.  Goodbye and good luck.  Some of my old Obihai-related blog posts have been moved to http://tech.iprock.com - note this in NOT my blog; I have simply given the owner permission to repost some of my old stuff.
lhm.
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 331


« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2012, 06:59:31 am »

MT

Give it up.
Logged
Frustrated
Newbie
*
Posts: 5


« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2012, 03:30:30 pm »

I have reread my original post several times (just did it again) and I honestly do not see where I said anything that should cause people to be so offended.  Certainly nothing that deserved lhm.'s response, which sort of set the tone for what followed.

In fact, before I posted the message I actually deleted a couple of things that I thought might be construed as personal attacks, and precisely because I thought that such a thing had no place here.  But once people started attacking me, I felt a bit less charitable.

You and I are so much alike.

I am new here but I have spent many years in other forums. I was the first member of codeguru.com to acheive 10,000 posts in those forums and 99% were attempts to help others. I disagreed with other members on many issues and I even wrote an article for that web site to show members how to do something.

Many times I have been in the type of situation you were here. It is often bizarre how people are so quick to swarm around someone when they have such very valid issues and no one is understanding.

The problem is when someone such as you or I make factual comments and then others make it personal and then things get ugly. In this situation, the original comments might have been a little personal but I can say from experience that even when comments are totally factual with nothing personal, someone will come along and make it personal and then the discussion has permanently degraded.

This is my advice from many years of experience and many encounters with this type of thing. Stick to the facts; do not get personal unless absolutey necessary. And here is the important part; when someone makes it personal, do not get caught up in that; just point out that the comments are personal and therefore irrelevant. If you respond to personal attacks, you will always lose; other members will let you drown. That happens in most forums at least.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC