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using home phone line?

Started by DougL, November 19, 2012, 07:52:53 PM

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DougL

Considering going with Obi, and would like some info.
I'm using UVerse for my home internet which, of course, uses the home phone line. If I go VOIP with Obi, is that same phone line usable for the phones? If so, I'd be able to get a dial tone anywhere in my house where I have a phone connector. If  not, I guess I need to put my phone where the Obi is (which is pretty much going to be where my UVerse router is, notwithstanding a few ethernet lines I've run around the house).

If the home phone line can be shared, then do I just stick a duplex connector on the house phone line, and run one side to the router, and the other side to the Obi phone port?

At least my old DSL would share the phone line with the POTS, so ...

Sure would be nice to see some example layouts.

ProfTech

#1
The answers to your questions depend on a couple of things.
1.dsl [UVerse is actually dsl] requires filter(s) on any phones in the house. At my daughters home ATT installed a new "box" on the outside of the house which contains a single filter for all of the phones but you need to check & confirm this before you start. There should be two lines coming out of the box. 1 goes to all of the phones and the other goes to your UVerse modem. If you have this setup, do not connect the Obi to the same line that feeds your UVerse modem.

2. Your final wiring will depend on how you want to use the system when finished. Do you still wish to make calls on the ATT line or do you want everything to go out using your new VOIP connection? It is also possible to have a hybrid of these two methods by using a trunk group in the Obi but this may complicate your home wiring and will require a different setup in the Obi as well.

Rick

Quote from: DougL on November 19, 2012, 07:52:53 PM

If the home phone line can be shared, then do I just stick a duplex connector on the house phone line, and run one side to the router, and the other side to the Obi phone port?

NO!  The OBi phone port is to connect to a phone or to wiring for PHONES.  The wiring that comes in from the outside is LINE, i.e. it's the live line from AT&T.  If you plug that into the PHONE port of your OBi, the world as we know it will come to an end - or maybe the OBi will stop working... You would connect it to the LINE port.

Rick

First point - you cannot use the POTS line unless you buy an OBi 110, or you have that line separate from your other phones.  The 100 and 202 don't connect to a POTS line.

Second point - how many of your house phones are plugged into the wall?  Many people have a portable phone's base station plugged in to the POTS line, and then all the portables around the house that aren't plugged into to anything but A/C. 

If you buy the 110, you can do as ProfTech says and determine your UVerse wiring. If on the outside of the house they split the wiring in the box into Uverse and phone, and those two wires then come into the house, one way to handle things is to then find that POTS (plain old telephone service) wire that comes into the house, which likely connects to a small junction box, which then feeds your phone outlets in your house.  At that junction box, you would remove the wires feeding the rest of the house and plug in a phone cord that then would plug into the LINE port of the 110.  You would then plug the phone outlet lead into the PHONE port of the 110, thereby supplying every phone outlet in your house with both the OBi VoIP lines as well as the POTS line.  THIS IS THE CLEANEST SETUP.

If AT&T did not split the line outside the house, they MIGHT have brought it in as one line with the DSL portion (or UVerse) on two of the four wires and the phone as the other two of the four wires.  If they did this, then you need to determine which two wires feed the DSL and which two feed the phone line (likely Red and Green).  You could then split that wire in the OBi / Uverse room into two plugs, one feeding the Uverse modem and the other feeding the OBi line port, and then plug the base of a portable phone into the OBi phone port. 

A more complicated scenario would depend on how your house is wired.  Some houses have one wire that goes from one room to the next through the entire house.  Some houses have a separate wire in each room, fed from the junction box in the basement.  If you have the first scenario, then you could put the OBi in the first room on the circuit with the incoming red/green (assuming I was correct above) wires hooked to one phone jack, feeding the OBi's LINE port.  You could then take the red/green wire that feeds the next room and hook it to a separate phone jack right below, and plug the OBi's PHONE port into that.  In this way, the OBi would power all the phone outlets in the house with both VoIP and POTS. 

I found it much easier to put everything in the basement on the wooden board that my electric box and phone junction is on, everything except for my wireless router (so I get max signal on the living floors).  My phone wire comes in from AT&T (now disconnected) and feeds the LINE port of my OBi 110, which then feeds all the house phone outlets with the PHONE port.  I also installed my AT&T DSL modem there (now replaced by a cable modem).  The DSL modem fed, via ethernet, my wireless router.  The wireless router then goes back down to the board and feeds a ethernet switch, which then feeds ethernet in several rooms in the home as well as the OBi 110, providing the VoIP signal which is then sent through the phone wire.    Sounds complicated, but in fact is quite straighforward.  ;)

DougL

OK, I think I understand.

First of all, no, I do not intend to have POTS. In fact, I discontinued POTS when UVerse was installed, as I intend to go VOIP-only. BUT, it takes them longer to disconnect the POTS than to install the UVerse, so for a few days I had *both* POTS and UVerse. The UVerse installer removed the DSL filter that I had on my phone, and for those few days the POTS worked fine. That was a bit surprising. So it appears that POTS and UVerse can coexist on the line without a filter. And yes, a new box was installed where the line from the street meets the house.

I don't believe they ran separate lines into the house from that box. I guess I have to suspect the 4-wire picture. I need to take a peek in that box and see what's hooked up to what.

As to just putting the portable phone base station where the Obi is, sure I can do that, but that base station is where the phone charger is, so that's where the phone is going to live.








Rick

Ok, if no POTS, then the 100 or the 202 will do just fine.

When you inspect the lines, you should be able to determine how they are powering the internal phone line.  I've not had Uverse, but it's VoIP, so their modem should be then feeding the house phone circuits.  Therefore, you should be able to feed the house phone circuits with the OBi in the same manner.  You should find in the wiring how they isolated the Uverse signal from outside to the modem, and all should then make some sense.

It sounds like you only have 1 phone in the house?  Many have a portable base and multiple phones.  We have 4, all off one base.  Then a corded phone in the basement in case we have no electricity, although that was before VoIP so it's basically useless in an outage too.

DougL

Yes, I was planning on the Obi100.

UVerse uses the house phone line, because my UVerse modem/router is just plugged into a standard phone connector socket.

I have a couple of phones in the house, but only one portable one, and that one is a single phone with a single base and charger.

At best, assuming a 4-conductor line, I'm thinking that I just put a duplex plug in the phone port near the UVerse modem, plug the modem into one of those, plug the Obi input into the modem/router, and the Obi output into the second phone connector instead of a phone. The UVerse modem and the Obi phone should know which wires they need. That way, in principle, I should have a dial tone from any phone in the house. That must have been how it worked for the few days when UVerse and POTS were sharing the same line.

Rick

Quote from: DougL on November 20, 2012, 10:10:32 AM
Yes, I was planning on the Obi100.

UVerse uses the house phone line, because my UVerse modem/router is just plugged into a standard phone connector socket.

I have a couple of phones in the house, but only one portable one, and that one is a single phone with a single base and charger.

At best, assuming a 4-conductor line, I'm thinking that I just put a duplex plug in the phone port near the UVerse modem, plug the modem into one of those, plug the Obi input into the modem/router, and the Obi output into the second phone connector instead of a phone. The UVerse modem and the Obi phone should know which wires they need. That way, in principle, I should have a dial tone from any phone in the house. That must have been how it worked for the few days when UVerse and POTS were sharing the same line.

I agree with your reasoning that they've already split the lines into DSL (UVerse) and powering the house phones.  What is your current phone plugged into?  A phone jack other than that which the UVerse modem is plugged into?

You will need to examine wiring, because what you can't do is plug in a powered phone/DSL line to the PHONE port of an OBi.  That usually causes damage.

DougL

Well, there is no "current phone". As I said, for a few days before the POTS was disconnected, I had both POTS and UVerse. At that time, the phone (in the dining room) was connected to a separate connector than was the UVerse modem (in the living room). That phone worked.

Ah, that's important about not plugging an Obi phone connector into a powered DSL line. That is, the Obi phone connector has to just go to a phone. Not entirely clear how I'm supposed to establish what's safe to plug the Obi phone line into. I mean, how do I tell who is using what wires in what I'm assuming is a 4-wire phone cable?

Now, long ago, I did run an Ethernet cable from the living room area where I have the UVerse modem/router, to within six feet of where I'd like to have the main phone live in the dining room. So my backup plan is just to put the Obi next to the phone in the dining room and not have any other phones in the house. It's six feet of cable I'd rather not have laying around,
though.

I can see that having a portable phone system with multiple handsets and chargers, but one base station, would make this all pretty straightforward.

DougL

OK, I checked the box where the phone line connects to the house. There are four cables that come out of it and go into the house. On three of those four cables, the yellow&black are not connected, but are wrapped around the sheath. Hard to see on the fourth. So that suggests that for most, if not all the phone lines going into the house, it's just ONE OR THE OTHER. UVerse, or phone.

That leaves me a bit puzzled about how one phone handset in the house was, for a few days, working with UVerse.

Rick

#10
Quote from: DougL on November 20, 2012, 11:04:29 AM
Well, there is no "current phone".

Yes, there is a current PHONE.  It's the one you talk on :).  That's what I meant, how is it plugged in today?

Quote from: DougL on November 20, 2012, 11:04:29 AMAh, that's important about not plugging an Obi phone connector into a powered DSL line. That is, the Obi phone connector has to just go to a phone. Not entirely clear how I'm supposed to establish what's safe to plug the Obi phone line into. I mean, how do I tell who is using what wires in what I'm assuming is a 4-wire phone cable?

My understand of Uverse is that they pull the phone off a Uverse modem to give you the VoIP.  Therefore, somewhere you should be able to find a device in the house which is powering your phone outlets.  Remember, the outside wiring existed BEFORE your POTS went away, so it in all likelihood includes POTS wiring that is now dead. 

If you don't know how your phone outlets are wired, you may need to open each one up and verify what is hooked up (red and green)? as well as where the AT&T modem(s) are plugged into to ultimately figure this out.  Your only issue is making sure that IF you use wall outlets to power all your phones with the OBi, you have removed the AT&T VoIP power first.  So if you find where the AT&T modem is powering the outlets (phone cord coming out that goes into wall outlet), and disconnect that, you MAY be all set.  Proof of course would be in then seeing if all your phone jacks are dead. But you also need to ensure that the DSL/Uverse is coming off DIFFERENT WIRES.

DougL

What I meant is that I have no current phone. POTS is disconnected. I use my cell phone, and Google Voice. There was a brief period when POTS was still connected, and I was able to use that alongside UVerse.

That's a good point. In principle, UVerse is capable of VoIP, and AT&T would be delighted to sell  it to me. But I have no idea what would be "powering" my phone outlets. I figured the phone lines come into the house with their own power. Isn't that why the POTS doesn't go away during a power failure?

Yes, I probably have to look at what wires are hooked up in my outlets, but I suspect it's all four. What determines what wires are used and what are not used is up in the box on the side of the house.




Rick

Now I get it.  Thought OBi was replacing Uverse VoIP.

You need to determine how the Uverse modem gets its signal.  You cannot plug the OBi into a wall jack without doing that.  Hopefully it us on the other two wires wandered green is for the phone.  Ideally you would disconnect outside phone line before plugging OBi into wall.

DougL

Quote from: Rick on November 20, 2012, 04:39:44 PM
Hopefully it us on the other two wires wandered green is for the phone.  Ideally you would disconnect outside phone line before plugging OBi into wall.

Not sure what you meant here. Are you saying that red/green is standard for phone? If that's the case, then I need to establish if black/yellow is being used for my UVerse *and* that nothing else is hooked up to red/green. Not completely sure how to establish the former, except by pulling off connections and seeing when UVerse goes away. If UVerse is black/yellow, I have to assume that nothing is on red/green anymore, because my POTS is gone and I have no dial tone. Should I be looking for a DC voltage on red/green? If none, are those two "clean", and available for Obi?

DougL

P.S. After doing some Google searches, I gather that what I'm trying to do is called "backfeeding UVerse". That is, putting a phone line back in the cable that UVerse came out of.