Obi202 Echo Help Please

[tpir72]

Hi,
   I have an Obi202 that we use with Google Voice. In the past I have had varying results in call quality. It was set up as Cable Modem >  Router > Obi202. I changed it a few days ago to Cable Modem > Obi202 (as a router) > Switch.
   Incoming and out going calls echo 80% of the time with a 1 - 2 second echo.

What can I tweak to fix this?

D: 36.04 U: 6.87 Ping: 42ms

Regards,

Terry

[tpir72]

Is it correct to assume that since there wasn't a response here in the forum from other members or tech support then I'm stuck with echo issues?

Regards,

Terry

[QBZappy]

tpir72,

Hello............................Hello............................Hello

Try setting up DNS to 8.8.8.8. (It has worked in the past for some reason)

[tpir72]

OK, I'll try it. I'm using the unit as a router too and OpenDNS's servers.

Where am I entering the 8.8.8.8 to not affect the OpenDNS settings or are you saying change my wired setup back to:

Modem > Router > Switch > Device(s)?

Regards,

Terry

[giqcass]

Are you using an actual switch or using a router as a switch?
Modem>>OBi>>Router
You could set the OBi up to use 8.8.8.8 and set the router up to use open DNS. 
Modem>>OBi>>Switch
Then you would need to set up DNS on each device to keep the open DNS.

[tpir72]

Right now it is setup OBI is VOIP and Router:

Modem > OBI > Switch > Other Computers/Devices

I did have Modem > Router > Switch > Computers and Devices (including OBI)

Both setups have Echo issues.

I recently tried OBI in the first layout above to keep VOIP ahead of everything else.

I don't fully understand when I used Vonage and Skype..... No Echo....

Regards,

Terry

[tpir72]

Has anyone tried this in OBI202 or Google Voice to kill Echo?

How/where do I change this?

VoEAudioProcessing::SetEcStatus

Regards,

Terry

[lhm.]

Try removing OpenDns from all configs as a test. Use 8.8.8.8 (Google) or 4.2.2.6 (Verizon).

Obi recommends not using Open DNS.

"The OBi is Using openDNS & the Google Voice Status Always Says Backing Off
You cannot use openDNS with the OBi. To workaround this issue, please do the following:
• Modify the DNSServer1 parameter value by accessing the OBi's web page.
• Select System Management from the left-side navigation menu
• Select Network Settings
• Locate the parameter called: DNSServer1
• Make DNSServer1 = 4.2.2.2 (This is a free public DNS server)
• Select Submit to save and Reboot the OBi
The OBi should no longer show Backing Off."

[ipse]

I'm not an expert, but why would DNS play a role in his echo problem? Once the IP of the server is resolved, the rest is pure IP traffic, DNS is out of the picture.
I'd rather look into QoS and packet processing - I have an Obi110 and religiously configured QoS (MAC based) on ny Tomato router. No echo.

[QBZappy]

I'd rather look into QoS and packet processing - I have an Obi110 and religiously configured QoS (MAC based) on ny Tomato router. No echo.

That may work.

Some other possible remedy suggested in the past:    
Make this default setting: OBi's Ethernet ports to 100 mb/s full duplex
http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=3788.0

Interesting read:
How to correct VoIP echo:
http://www.voipmechanic.com/phoneandvoicequality.htm

[CoalMinerRetired]

I'm not an expert, but why would DNS play a role in his echo problem? Once the IP of the server is resolved, the rest is pure IP traffic, DNS is out of the picture.
I'd rather look into QoS and packet processing - I have an Obi110 and religiously configured QoS (MAC based) on ny Tomato router. No echo.

Agreed. Data packets do not repeat or duplicate themselves, so there's no way for a digitized/packetized 'slice in time' of speech to be sent a second or third time.  That means echo comes from the analog components in the system, either on the sending end or the receiving end.

Note that the human speech to analog to digital processing on the sending end may very well introduce the echo, and in that case the same digitized speaking may be sent out multiple times, say with a 100 ms delay.  But this is still not the same as data packets being sent twice or duplicated.

[tpir72]

OK,
   Tried:
DNS1: 4.2.2.2
DNS2: 8.8.8.8

Changed the default to 100mbps. Turned phone volume down.

No change what so ever. I still get echo to the point of being distracting.

I also get spotty call quality.

I have high speed internet too.

This can't be the norm for OBI202.

Thoughts anyone? Tech support never responded.

Regards,

Terry

[CoalMinerRetired]

Note that these are the items mentioned in the linked article:

-   Hold your hand over the mouthpiece.  If the echo subsides then turn down the volume of the phone.  *You should actually keep the volume turned fairly low regardless, as VoIP connections are extra sensitive and you will experience better quality by doing so.
-   Move the IAD away from other electrical devices.
-   Remove any splitters or separate caller ID devices between the IAD and the phone.  In many cases this can cause echo that you hear on your end.
-   Try using another phone cord, as some phone cables can be of poor quality.
-   If you are using a cordless phone try to replace it with a corded phone (connected directly to the IAD and see if the echo stops.
And: Echo in telephony systems is caused by two main phenomena: the first is acoustic echo due to microphone pickup of audio.  The second is electrical echo due to mismatched impedance.

Have you tried any of these?
Have you tried with a different analog phone and different modular phone cord from the phone to the Obi modular jack?
Lastly, what is the echo and sound quality like when you make a call GV in your browser, thus completely bypassing your Obi and your analog phone?

[tpir72]

Done, no change -   Hold your hand over the mouthpiece.  If the echo subsides then turn down the volume of the phone.  *You should actually keep the volume turned fairly low regardless, as VoIP connections are extra sensitive and you will experience better quality by doing so.

In the process of doing this -   Move the IAD away from other electrical devices.

None there to remove -   Remove any splitters or separate caller ID devices between the IAD and the phone.  In many cases this can cause echo that you hear on your end.

Done, no change -   Try using another phone cord, as some phone cables can be of poor quality.

Corded or Cordless the same -   If you are using a cordless phone try to replace it with a corded phone (connected directly to the IAD and see if the echo stops.

Is it right to assume that there isn't a way to tweak this in expert mode of OBI202? - And: Echo in telephony systems is caused by two main phenomena: the first is acoustic echo due to microphone pickup of audio.  The second is electrical echo due to mismatched impedance.

I have not tried this at all. I'll assume I'll need a headset with mic for this test - Lastly, what is the echo and sound quality like when you make a call GV in your browser, thus completely bypassing your Obi and your analog phone?

Thanks for the help (everyone)....

Regards,

Terry

[CoalMinerRetired]

I have not tried this at all. I'll assume I'll need a headset with mic for this test - Lastly, what is the echo and sound quality like when you make a call GV in your browser, thus completely bypassing your Obi and your analog phone?

Only if your computer does not have speakers (built in sound) and a built in mic. Almost every laptop sold in the last 10 years has this. Note that you can use any computer for this test.

The bigger picture point in all this is it's the analog components that create echo, your phone, handset, mic, phone cord, etc, etc.  Once your voice gets digitized and sent out as an internet packet, there is no echo or duplication of the packet or repeating of the voice pattern that happens or could possibly happen.  Therefore, look at the analog components. Isolate those components from the Obi and determine where the root cause is, divide and conquer.

[Shale]

TPIR,

Are you testing to and from a remote phone or a phone in the same room? I thought I had echo. I was playing extensively with strings to change the impedence. Boing! If I muted my cell phone, which was in my other hand from the wire phone, the echo went away.

Is the echo heard by you or the remote person or both?

Do you have a very long wire between your phone and the phone port on the OBI?

[CoalMinerRetired]

Is it right to assume that there isn't a way to tweak this in expert mode of OBI202? - And: Echo in telephony systems is caused by two main phenomena: the first is acoustic echo due to microphone pickup of audio.  The second is electrical echo due to mismatched impedance.

In reply to this question only, I noticed there is a field for impedance for each of the two ports under Physical Interfaces. Yes, if you use the ObiTalk portal you need to get into Expert Mode to access the fields.

A few points. If you have the manual or otherwise can lookup the electrical specs for your analog phone handset, check what it shows for impedance.  I've never seen anyone on here mention this Obi setting, ever. But it's not that complicated, the worst case you try a different value in the Obi, and you have to go back to the default setting. Since you cannot directly measure impedance, a little bit of trail and error may be called for. Note that as soon as you add a second analog phone to the port, you may be changing the impedance.

[tpir72]

OK, progress report. I moved my wireless base station (cordless phone) a lot farther away. Same damn echo.
All the wife can say is she hates this and wants to go back to an analog phone.

I can tell everyone here that the echo is heard on both ends of the conversation .

I'll try playing with impedance next...

Thanks for the help.

Terry

TPIR,

Are you testing to and from a remote phone or a phone in the same room? I thought I had echo. I was playing extensively with strings to change the impedence. Boing! If I muted my cell phone, which was in my other hand from the wire phone, the echo went away.

Is the echo heard by you or the remote person or both?

Do you have a very long wire between your phone and the phone port on the OBI?

[tpir72]

Thanks, I'll try experimenting and see what happens. I did find this on impedance too. Looks like 600 ohms is standard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_impedance

Is it right to assume that there isn't a way to tweak this in expert mode of OBI202? - And: Echo in telephony systems is caused by two main phenomena: the first is acoustic echo due to microphone pickup of audio.  The second is electrical echo due to mismatched impedance.

In reply to this question only, I noticed there is a field for impedance for each of the two ports under Physical Interfaces. Yes, if you use the ObiTalk portal you need to get into Expert Mode to access the fields.

A few points. If you have the manual or otherwise can lookup the electrical specs for your analog phone handset, check what it shows for impedance.  I've never seen anyone on here mention this Obi setting, ever. But it's not that complicated, the worst case you try a different value in the Obi, and you have to go back to the default setting. Since you cannot directly measure impedance, a little bit of trail and error may be called for. Note that as soon as you add a second analog phone to the port, you may be changing the impedance.

[puzzeld]

Hi Terry,

There are couple more things you can try to resolve your problem.

1.   Separate your data and voip traffic into two different vlan/subnets.

Example:
Data = vlan1/192.168.1.1
Voip = vlan3/192.168.3.1

2.   Qos:

Setup your Quality of Service for Voip to the highest priority and leave everything else the same.

I don't know if can do the above on your router but you can set it up on your Obi202 for sure. Since I don't own Obi202, I cannot walk you through the setup. If you are having trouble setting it up then may I suggest that you either grab a manual and learn or ask someone here for help.