As Google Voice merges with Hangouts, possible impact on Obi support?

[dconway]

For those of us who rely on the Google Voice service with our Obi devices, do we have reason to worry about Google removing (or degrading) the service as they migrate their communication apps to Google Hangouts? 

Here's an article worth checking out:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/19/4346910/google-hangouts-upgrade-removes-host-google-voice-calls-gmail

[giqcass]

Interesting article.  There were ways to place Google Voice calls prior to xmpp support.  If all else fails we can revert to one of those methods.  I'm sure once Google has the new system up and running someone will find out how to connect to it.  Hopefully OBiHai will implement it in their devices.  I believe Google is moving towards web RTC.  If that is the case it is meant to be an open platform which should make it easy to integrate into new devices like the OBi.  Google will likely depreciate the current services once the new services come out of beta.  They are unlikely to shut them off without a significant overlap period.  They will also probably release documentation.  This is to allow developers the time and resources to update their apps.  Of course it's important to remember that sometimes Google works in mysterious ways.  If all else fails there are many cheap services that will work with Obi.

[FormerYooper]

Interesting article.  There were ways to place Google Voice calls prior to xmpp support.  If all else fails we can revert to one of those methods.  I'm sure once Google has the new system up and running someone will find out how to connect to it.  Hopefully OBiHai will implement it in their devices.  I believe Google is moving towards web RTC.  If that is the case it is meant to be an open platform which should make it easy to integrate into new devices like the OBi.  Google will likely depreciate the current services once the new services come out of beta.  They are unlikely to shut them off without a significant overlap period.  They will also probably release documentation.  This is to allow developers the time and resources to update their apps.  Of course it's important to remember that sometimes Google works in mysterious ways.  If all else fails there are many cheap services that will work with Obi.

giqcass .... would you care to expound on those ways to use GV prior to xmpp support?  Do those ways *exclude" the Obi device?  I think it's very interesting that Obihai is disturbingly silent since this announcement regarding the loss of xmpp support.  And, if this new "likely" open platform does not integrate with the obi device ... then where are we?  Will these other "many cheap services that will work with Obi" allow us to port our GV number over to them? 

I'm sure many of us would appreciate some sort of statement from the Obi folks?  Please!

[dircom]

yes you can port your GV # to somewhere else.
and I would guess that Obi support knows as much about the changes as we do, at this point.
the sky is not falling

[giqcass]

First off the beautiful thing about Google Voice is it will forward your calls to other phone numbers.  That makes the porting problem less of a concern.  I have in fact checked that my Google Voice number would port to Callcentric.  There is a tool for this.  www.callcentric.com/lnp/  Most companies provide a similar tool.  I have been told not all Google Voice numbers will port the same so check your own number.

So far as "other solutions" are concerned.  I previously used Sipsorcery.  The old way worked similar to XMPP but it used a gateway.  The gateway sent an http message to Google Voice on your behalf.  That would generate a callback. Then the gateway would receive a sip call and connect it to you sip device.  Any Sip device can be used in this way including the Obi.  It takes a couple extra seconds for the other persons phone to start ringing on outbound calls but it's hardly noticeable.

Incoming calls just ring normally.

[giqcass]

If anyone should have a problem with Number Porting there is an alternative.  Caller ID spoofing.  Many Voip companies offer this for free. 

Callcentric calls it  "External Caller ID".

[User2020]

I wish an official spokesperson for Obihai would chime in about this.  People are already posting on the web that this device won't work with GV in the future.  If this isn't the case, Obihai should shut down the rumor now.

[Koby]

I wish an official spokesperson for Obihai would chime in about this.  People are already posting on the web that this device won't work with GV in the future.  If this isn't the case, Obihai should shut down the rumor now.

What you should first wish is that Google would be more forthcoming about their future plans, and about whether/how it will be possible to interconnect with Google Voice in the future.  I doubt that the Obihai people have any "inside track" on information from Google, and this is coming out of left field for them as much as for the rest of us.

There are a few things to keep in mind:

Right now the Obihai devices and XMPP continue to work.  Sure, Google Hangouts aren't using XMPP anymore, but if you have created a separate Gmail account for use with Google Voice and your Obihai, and you don't enable Hangouts on that account, there is no evidence that Google will suddenly pull the plug on XMPP without warning.  If they were to do that, I think there would be an immediate backlash, because this not only would affect Obihai users, but also users of Asterisk, FreeSwitch, Yate, and other PBX software that connects to Google Voice, not to mention several Google Voice apps, and all the instant messaging software that depends on Google's XMPP.  I would expect, or at least hope, that before Google shuts down XMPP completely they would feel some obligation to give advance notice, and hopefully document alternate ways to connect to their services.  Point is, I think that much of the shouting of doom and gloom may be a bit premature.

Second, until and unless Google makes some information available about alternative ways to connect to Google Voice, or they announce that XMPP will be shut down on some drop-dead date, it would be premature for Obihai to speculate on alternative ways to connect to Google Voice.  Right now they most likely don't know any more than any of us.  In a week or a month, we might have considerably more information that would enable better decisions.

Finally, keep in mind that Google Voice calls can always be forwarded to a regular telephone number in a pinch.  So even if Google makes the huge mistake (from a PR standpoint) of completely shutting down XMPP with no advance notice, it's not like people who call your Google Voice number will need to go into a black hole.  You can route the calls to your cell phone, a landline, or any other VoiP provider.  You don't need to port your Google Voice number to some other provider, and in fact I don't see any good reason to do so, unless maybe you have just plain lost all trust in Google (if they do suddenly shut off XMPP with no advance warning, then I could understand that feeling).

By the way, when people talk about older methods that used to work, I recall that some of them relied on a program called PyGoogleVoice (not sure if that relied on XMPP or not - the documentation is at http://sphinxdoc.github.io/pygooglevoice/ ) and (more importantly) the use of Gizmo5.  The latter would convert Google Voice calls to SIP format, but Google bought it and then shut it down.  Since Gizmo5 was a necessary ingredient in some of those older "recipes", I don't think you can simply go back to those older methods.  That doesn't mean there won't be any alternatives available, but we may not know what they are yet.

[Koby]

As another example of how little anyone really knows at this point:

http://www.disruptivetelephony.com/2013/05/did-google-really-kill-off-all-xmppjabber-support-in-google-hangouts-it-still-seems-to-partially-work.html

Again, if you feel the need to be upset with anyone, be upset with Google - they could clear up all this speculation, fear and doubt by simply issuing a statement clarifying their intent.

[giqcass]

Gizmo was never a "Necessary" part of the equation with the older methods.  You could use Gizmo, Ipkall, Sipgate, Callcentric, ect....  I used Gizmo with the old method and then I switched to Sipgate because it was more reliable for me.  The old method did not use xmpp in any way. It used http and sip.  pygooglevoice was only one of several libraries available.


There is no need to be upset with anyone including Google.  Nothing has actually happened yet. 

[Koby]

Gizmo was never a "Necessary" part of the equation with the older methods.  You could use Gizmo, Ipkall, Sipgate, Callcentric, ect....  I used Gizmo with the old method and then I switched to Sipgate because it was more reliable for me.  The old method did not use xmpp in any way. It used http and sip.  pygooglevoice was only one of several libraries available.


There is no need to be upset with anyone including Google.  Nothing has actually happened yet. 

You're right, I stand corrected.  Looking back on some notes from back then, it appears that what happened was when a caller placed and outgoing call, the system would use the gvoice program from PyGoogleVoice (or some equivalent) and execute a command that looked something like this:

gvoice -e username@gmail.com -p userpassword call ${EXTEN} gvregphonenum code &

where

username@gmail.com = Gmail address associated with the Google Voice account
userpassword = Google Voice account password
${EXTEN} = The number to call (actual variable in Asterisk)
gvregphonenum = A phone number that is reqistered as a destination in your Google Voice account.  This is NOT your Google Voice number, instead this is the number (or one of the numbers) that you received Google Voice calls on.
code = The type of the previous number, which should be the same as what you told Google the number was.  Valid options are the numbers 1, 2, or 3, where 1=Home, 2=Mobile, 3=Work (there also used to be another code for Gizmo5 numbers).

What would happen after the above was executed is that Google would call the phone number given in the gvregphonenum position, then when that call was answered, it wold proceed to ring the called party.  So what Asterisk would do when someone called a number is send the command to Google Voice, then put the call into some kind of a parked state, then when Google called back (usually withing a couple seconds) it would bridge the incoming call to the original caller. This is a very basic thumbnail sketch of how it worked, with many details left out.

[giqcass]

All of that stuff was done in the background. The user would dial the phone normally but would hear one or two extra rings before the other parties phone would start ringing.  In my experience it was reliable with one short outage when Google changed the way it handled log ins.  That issue did not affect incoming calls.

For anyone using the following method to set up Google Voice you will still receive incoming calls even if Google cuts off xmpp sometime in the future.
http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=3640.0

[Koby]

All of that stuff was done in the background. The user would dial the phone normally but would hear one or two extra rings before the other parties phone would start ringing.  In my experience it was reliable with one short outage when Google changed the way it handled log ins.  That issue did not affect incoming calls.

Right.  If I recall correctly, with earlier versions of Asterisk you would use the Parking Lot to connect the calls, but later versions had a way to actually bridge in-progress calls.  I'd have to dig out my notes again to see how it was done.

For anyone using the following method to set up Google Voice you will still receive incoming calls even if Google cuts off xmpp sometime in the future.
http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=3640.0

But... that costs money!    And there's no reason to panic and go signing up with such a service just yet.  It worst comes to worst and Google cuts off XMPP with no advance warning at all (which I don't think will happen), you can always forward your Google Voice calls to your cell phone for a few days, and either give the Obihai developers time to figure out a workaround, or sign up with another service at that time.

Also, if someone just wants CNAM service, I believe you can still get that for free using the Simon Telephonics gateway.  This article explains how to use it with your Obihai device.  And I think that if Google drops XMPP support, Bill Simon and the people behind the Yate PBX software (which powers his gateway) will figure out another way to connect.

[Usually_Befuddled]

Considering how Google recently eviscerated the Contacts support to the point I now need to use cut&paste to call; I'm hardly reassured.

[giqcass]

But... that costs money!     And there's no reason to panic and go signing up with such a service just yet.

Actually Callcentric doesn't have to cost any money.  I'm using it now and paying nothing.  When you sign up for Callcentric use your real address but say you don't plan to use Callcentric in the US.  Then you won't be forced to buy E911 and you won't be charged anything.

[Lavarock7]

But... that costs money!     And there's no reason to panic and go signing up with such a service just yet.

Actually Callcentric doesn't have to cost any money.  I'm using it now and paying nothing.  When you sign up for Callcentric use your real address but say you don't plan to use Callcentric in the US.  Then you won't be forced to buy E911 and you won't be charged anything.

That is exactly what I did, say I was out of the country so no E-911. In reality, Hawaii is IN the country, but where I live, street addresses don't help much in finding the house. It is more like "go 3/4 mile down and make a left on the dirt road" type address.

I got a free NYC number and an INUM number and my cost is $0 through CallCentric. At some point I expect to give them actual paying business.

[R_Chandra]

Considering how Google recently eviscerated the Contacts support to the point I now need to use cut&paste to call; I'm hardly reassured.

That's not exactly necessary.  Although I detest it but for anything better to replace it, if one hovers over the row with a (phone) number, icons for calling and SMSing appear.  When they're clicked, they pop up a "pseudowindow" to perform the call (such as choosing a forwarding number, call, and cancel/hang up) or SMS.  The stupidity is that for no particularly good reason, this knowledge is hidden until the happenstance of hover happens.

[R_Chandra]

From what my preliminary research indicates, we should not have a lot of concern.  Google are merely choosing to migrate from one open technology, XMPP with Jingle extensions, to another, WebRTC.  So when XMPP is kaputt, Obihai I will guess will simply release firmware 1.4, 2.0, or whatever, which will implement SIP, SDP, RTP, SRTP and WebRTC (instead of SIP, SDP, RTP, SRTP, XMPP, and Jingle).  Or maybe it will just graft on WebRTC so it will operate on all seven; not sure how much ROM/RAM/flash there is to work with and what the requirements are.

[giqcass]

I believe the new protocol is fairly lightweight.  It's been designed to allow it to run in a browser. 

[Crow550]

Did some tests. Google Chat calling for apps and devices still works fine.

I went in Gmail and switched from Google Talk to Hangouts for two different Google accounts one using Obi and the other using Groove IP. Tested calls in and out with an Obi device (even rebooted the device) and the other account with the Groove IP app calling in and out.

Works just the same as usual.