Let's Discuss Google Hangouts for Android

[CoalMinerRetired]

I'm aware there are multiple threads about Hangouts on here.  I'm specifically starting this to talk Hangouts for Android. And I'm new to Android.

So let's start:
- Do I want to replace Google Voice on Android with Hangouts in an Android phone? Especially if I do not use nor want all the messaging or social network features?  I do use text, and will like to have MMS on my GV number. 

- Is Hangouts on Android eventually going to be the only application able to make GV calls a data plan as opposed to using a voice bandwidth?

- I'm still not clear if Hangouts is a direct replacement for Google Voice or not. It (link) says Replaces Google Talk, but I don't see an app named Google Talk on my android device, it's an HTC One with Android 4.3. Exactly what is being replaced here?

If the answer is discussed somewhere else on here, please post a link minus any snarky comments.

[giqcass]

Google talk is just the chat program on android.  Google Voice does use XMPP like Google Talk but I think the Google Voice app will remain as an independent App after Hangouts replaces Talk.  I wouldn't be shocked if the Google Voice app eventually merged but I think that's still a long way off.  The biggest reason to switch is if you want to do video calls and chat.  I'm holding on to the Google Voice app for now.  I'm sure someone will come up with a new non XMPP solution that doesn't violate TOS.  There are combinations of programs you can use such as Sipdroid and GV+.  Here is a link to a tutorial.  It's an old one but the concept remains the same.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[unoriginal]

Google Voice on Hangouts is going to be the red-headed stepchild of the Android ecosystem I think. Carriers seem to have much more influence on Android than they do with Apple and iOS, and I can't imagine they are thrilled with the growing prospect of being a wireless data provider helping connect Google devices with Google servers. I mean really if you have an Android smartphone with Hangouts, a Google Voice number and a data plan, you're basically running a Google+ thin-client instead of a Verizon/T-Mobile/etc. cell phone.

So whatever SMS/MMS/voicemail integration we see with Hangouts on Android will lag a step or two behind the carrier implementations. Hangouts works with SMS/MMS perfectly if you use your carrier's service exclusively! That's of course the hardest to make happen, but it's the one the carriers wanted to happen first, so it happened first. Then you can integrate Google Voice and SMS/MMS flawlessly on Sprint, which is desperate for subscribers. For everyone else, Google Voice SMS works intermittently, MMS support is "coming." Finally actual voice call support is coming after May, which means "once we boot everybody else off Voice the carriers may allow us to add it to Hangouts, maybe."

The Google product manager who posted the faq response used phrases similar to "we need to work with the carriers to make this happen" for everything except the TOS stuff. For me that's code for "the carriers don't want this. They hate this. They want this to go slow and not work well if not stop entirely. They loved us deep-sixing Talkatone, GrooveIP et al though!"

[SteveInWA]

I'm aware there are multiple threads about Hangouts on here.  I'm specifically starting this to talk Hangouts for Android. And I'm new to Android.

So let's start:
- Do I want to replace Google Voice on Android with Hangouts in an Android phone? Especially if I do not use nor want all the messaging or social network features?  I do use text, and will like to have MMS on my GV number. 

- Is Hangouts on Android eventually going to be the only application able to make GV calls a data plan as opposed to using a voice bandwidth?

- I'm still not clear if Hangouts is a direct replacement for Google Voice or not. It (link) says Replaces Google Talk, but I don't see an app named Google Talk on my android device, it's an HTC One with Android 4.3. Exactly what is being replaced here?

If the answer is discussed somewhere else on here, please post a link minus any snarky comments.

There is some inaccurate information in the responses so far.  Let me give you some background, describe (very briefly, at a high-level) the main purposes of each communications service/app, the current state of affairs, and Google's announced (and inferred) plans for integration and migration.  This is based on public knowledge of the existing platforms, disclosed plans by Google executives, and whatever information I can offer not barred under my NDA as a Google Voice "Top Contributor".

Today, there are two separate services (Voice and Chat/Talk/Hangouts), with their corresponding web applications and mobile (iOS and Android) apps.  The names have always been ambiguous, and not very representative of the actual services being provided; thus the confusion.

Google Voice is not a VoIP telephony service.  It's primarily an INbound call, text and voicemail management system.  The primary design (from its original owner, GrandCentral) was to give you, the user, one inbound phone number, which could/would then forward to your choice of up to six forwarding phones.  If those phones are busy or don't answer, the goal is to forward the calls back to Google Voice's voicemail system.  Text messages are sent and received via a SMS gateway, using the user's GV phone number and some dummy phone numbers substituted to allow GV users to reply as if they are replying from their GV number.  All GV-initiated phone calls made on a cellular/PCS mobile phone are made over the phone's own mobile (e.g. GSM or CDMA, and someday, VoLTE) voice network, NOT over VoIP.  This is a major misconception by new users, who are coming from Skype or SIP VoIP experiences.  GV does not use XMPP, nor SIP.  It's a PSTN application.

Google Chat (and a related standalone chat app called Google Talk) were the XMPP clients that enabled IM functions, and later, VoIP voice chatting and VoIP<-->PSTN calling.  Think of the 1990s, when AIM and MSN Messenger became popular.  Chat and Talk were competitors to those apps.  Google VOICE uses Google CHAT as its VoIP gateway.  When this function was spliced into to Voice, it was used solely on laptop/desktop web browsers to place calls over VoIP.  Obihai created a third-party Chat client in the OBi firmware to emulate (pretend to be) a Chat client, logged into your Google account, to make calls.  Inbound calls were enabled by Google when it added Chat/Talk as one of the forwarding "phones" you could select.  Outbound calls on an OBi use Chat XMPP, too.  This is what Google plans to phase out in May.

Now, fast forward to 2013.  Google released Hangouts.  Initially, Hangouts was an adaptation of an internal video conferencing application used at Google.  It is now the strategic direction for future development funding and overall support.  Hangouts began as a web-only, peer A/V conferencing app.  It later added VoIP<-->PSTN calling.  The goal is to shut down the legacy Chat XMPP function, which requires a fragile and flaky web browser plugin, and to replace its functions with Hangouts, which is based on WebRTC and HTML5.  The plugin is expensive to maintain, since endless fixes have to be made to keep up with changes to IE, Safari, Chrome and Firefox browsers on Windows, Mac OS, and some Linux distros.  WebRTC and HTML5 are baked into the browser itself, and will enable higher-level code to be written to simply leverage those browser functions.  It is much easier to create and maintain communications apps this way, letting the browser deal with operating system differences and revision issues.

SO:  the reason you see "Hangouts, replaces Talk" in the title, is that Talk was deprecated and Hangouts replaced it; thus no Talk on recent builds of Android.

Google's strategic goal at this time is to migrate and merge the various functions of Chat, Talk and Voice into Hangouts (over time).  This is an extremely complex undertaking, with lots of potential issues.  For example, as many users are bemoaning, Hangouts now supports SMS texting using your Android phone's NATIVE phone number, but not (yet) your (optional) Google Voice phone number.  This is a big headache.  The Google development and product management teams know this, and they are working on better integration.  It won't come tomorrow, but will very likely appear in stages, over 2014.

Where does this leave you today?  GV will continue to support its existing features and benefits for the short to mid-term time periods.  GV works with dumb cell phones, land lines (including VoIP numbers) and it works with smart phones running the mobile GV app.  The GV and Hangouts mobile apps are NOT redundant.  You should keep the mobile GV app if you want to use the telephony functions of GV on your mobile phone.  You should also get used to using Hangouts for VoIP calling (over the internet, via 3G/4G/WiFi, vs. over the carrier's network).  Today, Hangouts supports voice calling over the internet on laptop/desktop computer web browsers, and on iOS devices.  Soon, Android devices will be able to call over VoIP.  It's time to abandon any third-party Chat XMPP clients, such as OBi, Talkatone, GrooVe IP, Mo+, Voice+, Simonics Gateway, etc.

I hope that helps.  Note:  I am only focusing on the technology-driven evolution.  While there have been some delicate tip-toe steps by Google in the past, to not anger the cash cow mobile phone carriers that sell Android devices, that really isn't much of an issue at this time, as the "horse is out of the barn", and the carriers are slowly moving toward data pipe utilities with their own value-added services, while supporting "frenemy" relationships with alternative communications at the app layer, such as Google Hangouts, Skype, and the many messaging apps.

[CoalMinerRetired]

Where does this leave you today?  GV will continue to support its existing features and benefits for the short to mid-term time periods.  GV works with dumb cell phones, land lines (including VoIP numbers) and it works with smart phones running the mobile GV app.  The GV and Hangouts mobile apps are NOT redundant.  You should keep the mobile GV app if you want to use the telephony functions of GV on your mobile phone.  You should also get used to using Hangouts for VoIP calling (over the internet, via 3G/4G/WiFi, vs. over the carrier's network).  Today, Hangouts supports voice calling over the internet on laptop/desktop computer web browsers, and on iOS devices.  Soon, Android devices will be able to call over VoIP.  It's time to abandon any third-party Chat XMPP clients, such as OBi, Talkatone, GrooVe IP, Mo+, Voice+, Simonics Gateway, etc.

I hope that helps.  Note:  I am only focusing on the technology-driven evolution.  While there have been some delicate tip-toe steps by Google in the past, to not anger the cash cow mobile phone carriers that sell Android devices, that really isn't much of an issue at this time, as the "horse is out of the barn", and the carriers are slowly moving toward data pipe utilities with their own value-added services, while supporting "frenemy" relationships with alternative communications at the app layer, such as Google Hangouts, Skype, and the many messaging apps.

Thanks.  The above quoted parts get to the core of what I wanted to know.

[sdb-]

It's time to abandon any third-party Chat XMPP clients, such as OBi, Talkatone, GrooVe IP, Mo+, Voice+, Simonics Gateway, etc.

Only if you are using them for VoIP.

If you are using the third party Chat XMPP client for Chat, and especially if you are using multiple XMPP servers, then you might prefer to keep using it.

The sticky issue (at least for me) is if I will be able to continue chatting with my google contacts using my single XMPP chat client...

So far with Android 4.4.2 I consider the hangouts app to be entirely broken and unusable.  I want to know and control when I send an message that it will go by my choice of XMPP or SMS, and if SMS that it will go using my choice of my mobile number or my GV number.  I do not want to merge those worlds when sending, and I do not want stuff showing up in my google 'hangout' unless I specifically direct it there.

Until this mode of operation changes in the hangouts app, I won't be using it and I'll put up with separate apps instead.  (Textra for mobile number SMS, GVoice for GV number SMS, and Xabber for XMPP chat.)

[SteveInWA]

It's time to abandon any third-party Chat XMPP clients, such as OBi, Talkatone, GrooVe IP, Mo+, Voice+, Simonics Gateway, etc.

Only if you are using them for VoIP.

Well, considering that this is the Obitalk forum, devoted to VoIP, then it should be clear that's what is being discussed here, not text messaging.

If you want your opinions about Hangouts to be heard, I encourage you to post over on the Google Hangouts Forum.  It may not be apparent, but the developers ARE listening, and they are currently trying to improve the product to address concerns like yours.  The Forum Community Manager is outstanding, and she is working with the developer team to relay the issues.  The issue of SMS messages vs. Google (Hangouts, formerly Chat) messages is one of the more complex challenges they face, and what you see today in the app will likely improve in phases over the next year.

http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!categories/hangouts