I'm posting here since I'm not technically savvy though I've been using my two Obi200's since 2018. I've had issues since the beginning, but was unable to get any help from Polycom support even though my units were under support and I filed multiple support tickets.
My three issues are:
1. When my phone rings, there is a delay in the connection. I have to say "hello" multiple times before the caller can hear me after I pick up. It seems minor, but actually is not as you don't know if the call was connected or what while you keep saying 'hello" over and over again.
2. I frequently get the following error message when dialing out: "The number you dialed, has not received a response from the service provider." It often but not always seems to happen when I misdial or hit the end button a few times. I can reboot the Obi200 to fix it and it also seems to work OK if I wait some amount of time before using the line again.
3. On long calls (as in when I'm on hold waiting for customer support), the line will just disconnect after 20-30 minutes.
Back in 2019 I tried many different suggested troubleshooting steps without getting anywhere. After putting in inordinate amounts of time and effort, I just gave up and having been living with the issues as frustrating and annoying as they are.
My main question is if I pay for support (there is still an option showing on my device page to buy support for a year from Amazon for $10), will I actually now get support? Previously it was a waste of time and money as I had no response despite trying multiple times over 6 months.
And of course if anybody can point me to a solution for any of these issues, that would be great.
What kind of internet service?
Xfinity (Comcast) up to 200 Mbps download, 5 Mbps upload
Okay, sounds good. I think the router could be causing problems 2 and 3. Do you have another one to try?
I don't think it could be the router. I switched routers maybe a year ago and have had problems before and after. Unless you have some concrete reason to believe it could be the router and/or what is a bad router brand/model that would cause the problem...
Searching the Google voice forum, the experts there say for problem 2:
"This message that you hear on the telephone connected to your OBi adapter indicates that your OBi adapter is not connected to the Internet."
and to ask the ObiTalk forum for help.
If they are right, it's strange because all my other devices like my phone, computer, etc. are all connecting just fine to the internet including the other Obi200 device that is plugged into the same router. I haven't paid close attention to the lights on the Obi200 when I get the service provider error message to see if they somehow indicate the Obi200 has lost the internet connection. Unfortunately the problem is intermittent so I have to wait until it happens again to check.
That's new info for me.
I would try swapping the power supplies on the two Obi200's.
Both devices do it intermittently.
I'm back to the router/firewall then.
The Obi's need to reregister each hour. It sure sounds like that is being blocked.
As for problem #1 I have noticed some phones are faster than others.
As I've said, it's done it with two different routers so unless you have a specific setting for me to look at, I don't see how trying a 3rd router is productive.
I would take a different attack on troubleshooting your issues. What service provider are you trying to use for service? If you are attempting to use Google Voice all bets are off. Next, I would do a paper clip [factory] reset of the Obi and start over. Use the Obitalk portal to configure your Obi if you feel like you need to. The information you got about "no response from the service provider" is correct. Does your service provider use a "regular" registration procedure to send you calls? If yes, start there and don't worry about anything else until the Obi is registering and staying registered reliably. Then you can investigate any problems. Not before.
@ProTech Thanks very much for your reply.
As implied in my earlier post on 5/13 commenting on the response in the Google Voice forum, I am in fact using Google Voice.
So based on your response, it appears the problems are not fixable if I'm using Google voice?
As a newbie, I have no idea how to check if Google voice is using a "regular" registration procedure and if the OBi is registering and staying registered reliably. I can say that I can go days without having the "no response from the service provider" issue and other than the problems I listed, the incoming and outgoing calls work fine with reasonably good quality.
Again, any and all help is greatly appreciated.
Google Voice uses SIP, just like other ITSPs. The authentication method is different, in that it is not using a typical username/password. Instead, it's using a secure token that initially generated and stored on the device when you set up Google Voice on the device.
That said, I am pretty sure your issue is network-related. If you want to just be done with this, why not sign up for service with a simple SIP VoIP ITSP like Callcentric or voip.ms, and then see how they perform over time.
Both services are low-priced, and have no contracts (paid by the month, and you can cancel any time).
I'd also suggest running a more meaningful test of your ITSP's ability to reliably handle end-to-end VoIP calls. The ordinary speed test websites are useless to diagnose VoIP issues.
Instead, use Visualware's BCS test. It simulates a true VoIP conversation between your computer and various other endpoints. Run it frequently, at different times of the day, and, if you have a call disconnect, then run it immediatly after that. It will report the results as a Mean Opinion Score, or MOS. You need a MOS of at least 4.0, and ideally, higher.
http://www.visualware.com/bcs/ (http://www.visualware.com/bcs/)
Finally, just because you are paying for Comcast's 200Mbps service doesn't mean you are getting it reliably. Cable systems are notorious for signal quality problems caused by corroded connectors, crimps or tears in the insulating jacket, or rodent damage. Comcast will do everything they can to tell you it's not their issue, but if you can document fluctuating MOS values, that points the finger at them.
@SteveInWA Thanks for the detailed response and concrete recommendations in enough detail for me to follow.
I would switch to another VOIP service except for the Google voice features which are absolutely essential. For my parents I can easily switch their calls from ringing their home phone to their cell phone when they go out of town for an extended period which is often. And the most important feature is the whitelist for phone calls integrated with the Google Contacts. Not having to worry about scams and telemarketers has made an incredible difference. I can't imagine doing without it now. Do the other VOIP services provide such integrated features?
I downloaded and ran BCS test a couple of times. My results were 4.0/4.1 for outgoing calls and 4.2/4.2 for incoming calls.
If the issue is network related and not a consistent issue with other users of Obitalk and GV, is this something specific to a Comcast interface card local to me? Otherwise, I would expect to find more references to similar issues in the forums.
RE: pros and cons of another ITSP vs. Google Voice: I'm a long-time user of Google Voice, and I support the service over on Google's official help forum. So, I appreciate it's great features. I was ambiguous, but I was suggesting that you sign up for, say, Callcentric and get a number from them, then try some calls, to see if you're having the same problem. If so, then it would strongly point to your Internet service. If not, then it might point to a firmware issue - some value related to registration might be too tight...keep in mind, there have been perhaps 50-100 reports of that "service provider" symptom in the past year, with no resoundingly consistent cause, other than crappy ISP service.
RE: comparing features, you may be surprised - Callcentric can forward calls to some other number based on rules you define, and it has a "phonebook" you can use to create whitelists and/or blacklists, and you can devise "call treatments" to take various actions, based on groups you create in your phonebook, and other criteria. In the screenshot below, the treatment sends all calls from numbers I placed in my "junk caller" group to a SIT ("The number you called has been disconnected or is not in service...").
If it turns out that you do see some low MOS scores in your repeated tests, the most likely cause is bad coax cable on the poles or underground, leading from your neighborhood hub to your house. I don't think you covered it, but the other cause can be a failing cable modem. If you are using a cable modem that is more than a few years old, it might be the culprit.
Finally, you asked earlier if paying for support would help. Nope. :(
All of this is great information. Thanks so much!
Sorry I misunderstood your suggestion of another VOIP service to try some calls to diagnose the problem. That's a great idea! I assume the whole point would be to use one of my Obi200s with the other VOIP service. However, as some of my problems are intermittent, I assume I would need to order another Obi200 adapter (and a phone connected to it) as I assume it is not easy/convenient to reprogram the Obi200 from GV service to Callcentric and back and forth to debug.
My cable modem is a NETGEAR CM500 which I purchased in Nov. 2017. I suppose I could try switching it out. That would be easy enough except for Comcast who only allows you to register one modem at a time so I have to go through the hassle of being on hold with them to do that. Do you have a modem you recommend? I'm happy to try another one.
I have had Comcast come to the house and they have put an analyzer to the cable signal. Even though it all looked good, the tech replaced all the connections just to be doubly sure. But it could be a problem down the line still.
FYI: I do have another VOIP service, Ooma that doesn't seem to have the problems I'm having with GV. But that is something I don't use regularly since i switched to GV 3-4 years ago. As the Ooma is completely free for me, I keep it plugged in. Ooma has it's own hardware of course.
I took at look at the Callcentric website and it looks like there would be a bit of a learning curve as the information and website doesn't seem that user friendly for a novice (and the unlimited plan is not that inexpensive ($20/month). It's of course cheap to set up an account only for troubleshooting.
Appreciate the answer to if paying for support would help. That's what I was afraid of.
At this point, I can live with the "no response from service provider"as it doesn't happen that often and I know how to fix it. Having the call drop in the middle of a long hold is obviously infuriating, but there is no way to debug that problem easily (I suppose I could go looking for customer support with long hold time). So let me ask if you have any idea as to why there would be a delay in the call connecting on incoming calls. This is where I keep having to say hello after I pick up an incoming call because the caller is not hearing me.
Btw, my MOS score today was 4.2 on incoming and outgoing. But the SIP ALG detected showed 1/4 red. Do I need to worry about that?
No, you do not need another OBiTALK device. Each device can host up to four different service providers, on its SP1--SP4 configurations. Simply add Callcentric on one of the other SPs. Again, this can either be temporary, just for testing, or you may find you like it, and decide to upgrade to whatever plans suit you.
Callcentric sells things a la carte; that's why it is confusing to new customers. So, you need three (and possibly four things): an inbound telephone number, an inbound calling plan, an outbound calling plan, and E911 service. See my two screenshots below. The bare minimum you'd need for testing purposes would be:
- A phone number, which is assigned to you as part of selecting one of their inbound plans: You can either start with "Dollar Unlimited", which is a NY State area code number with unlimited inbound calling or "Pay per minute" which includes a number in your area code of choice, and per-minute inbound calling.
- Outbound calling: "Pay per call", which is just what it sounds like (per minute pricing), or "North America Basic", which includes 120 minutes, with per-minute pricing after that, AND E911 service.
I can't really offer any additional "tech support" regarding your cable service. It sounds like you've done what you can. I'd try the Callcentric experiment first. If that works, then great; forget about Google Voice. If it fails, too, then I'd consider replacing the cable modem, with either a rental one from Comcast, or buy a new one. Yours is now outdated. The current cable modem specification is DOCSIS 3.1, which provides significant improvements. Any DOCSIS 3.1 modem from Arris or from the cable company would be fine.
Thanks for explaining how to sign up with Callcentric and that I don't need another adapter. I looked at the Obi dashboard and see where there is SP1-4. Once i configure SP2 for Calcentric, do I just activate one or the other to switch between the two. I didn't see how to do that.
Another newbie question. i tried to find info on the Callcentic website re: theirPhone book, but couldn't find any information. My question is how easy is it to export my 500 Google contacts to the Callcentric phone book. I obviously don't want to re-enter in each one by hand.
If it does turn out that everything works fine with Callcentric, what does that tell me? That GV is very buggy and not really a great solution?
To make sure I don't misunderstand you, you are recommending the Arris brand of modem over a Motorola or Netgear 3.1 modem, is that correct? Another newbie question: Researching the modems, I mainly see talk of 3.1 supporting higher gigabit speeds. I clearly don't need 3.1 for higher speed. Tom's Guide says my CM500 (Doscis 3.0) will support speeds of 686/132 Mbps which is far above the service I have with Comcast. So when you say DOCSIS 3.2 provides significant improvements, is that with regards to reliability, errors, etc. Should I expect a better MOS score with the new modem?
Thanks again for our patient and detailed explanations. For the first time in my seeking help on the Obi forums over the last couple of years, I feel like I'm getting somewhere!
Quote from: caleecs on May 19, 2020, 05:28:14 PM
Thanks for explaining how to sign up with Callcentric and that I don't need another adapter. I looked at the Obi dashboard and see where there is SP1-4. Once i configure SP2 for Calcentric, do I just activate one or the other to switch between the two. I didn't see how to do that.
When you set up a SPx, the menu will ask you whether or not to make this SP the default for outbound calling. It's just a check box. After you do that, you can still use all of the other SPs to make calls. For example, assume SP1 is Google Voice, and SP2 is Callcentric, and you've set SP2 as the default. To make calls using SP1, you will prepend the dial string with ** and the number of the SP. In this case, it would look like this: **12135551212
Another newbie question. i tried to find info on the Callcentic website re: theirPhone book, but couldn't find any information. My question is how easy is it to export my 500 Google contacts to the Callcentric phone book. I obviously don't want to re-enter in each one by hand.
It's difficult. Some users have written code to do it. The problem is that you can export your Google Contacts to a CSV file, but it looks nothing like the format that CC expects to import. So, you have to use some spreadsheet smarts or a script to massage the list. I gave up on doing that, so I can't help.
If it does turn out that everything works fine with Callcentric, what does that tell me? That GV is very buggy and not really a great solution?
It means that some unknown issue with the way OBiTALK devices implement Google Voice support is causing a problem, that nobody has been able to nail down, and, if CC works better, then use CC.
To make sure I don't misunderstand you, you are recommending the Arris brand of modem over a Motorola or Netgear 3.1 modem, is that correct? Another newbie question: Researching the modems, I mainly see talk of 3.1 supporting higher gigabit speeds. I clearly don't need 3.1 for higher speed. Tom's Guide says my CM500 (Doscis 3.0) will support speeds of 686/132 Mbps which is far above the service I have with Comcast. So when you say DOCSIS 3.2 provides significant improvements, is that with regards to reliability, errors, etc. Should I expect a better MOS score with the new modem?
That's out of scope for an in-depth discussion here. The raw speed isn't the issue. It's the robustness and reliability of the connection. DOCSIS 3.1 modems are, well, better in that regard. Do your own research. As for brands, ARRIS, which is a spin-off of Motorola, is the industry leader and makes great modems. There are obviously other choices. You are limited to the list that Comcast has on their website that they will support.
Thanks again for our patient and detailed explanations. For the first time in my seeking help on the Obi forums over the last couple of years, I feel like I'm getting somewhere!
That was my question about 3.1, whether there were improvements in reliability and robustness. I couldn't find any information when I looked so thanks for answering that.
I guess all this gives me plenty to try so I will follow your recommendations and see what results I get and check back in if Callcentric doesn't solve my issues.
Thanks very much again for all your help.
Just in case it wasn't clear from SteveInWA's post above, the **n prepend is only needed on outbound calls. Incoming calls on any of the SPs ring the phone and can be answered just by taking the handset off-hook.
@drgeoff Thanks very much for clarifying that. I was assuming it worked something like that, but wasn't very sure.
DOCSIS 3.1 changes the technique used to modulate signals on the coax network, and it's more robust and higher-performing than earlier methods.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS)
Quote
DOCSIS 3.1 : First released in October 2013, and updated several times since, the DOCSIS 3.1 suite of specifications support capacities of up to 10 Gbit/s downstream and 1 Gbit/s upstream using 4096 QAM. The new specs do away with 6 MHz and 8 MHz wide channel spacing and instead use narrower (25 kHz or 50 kHz wide) orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing (OFDM) subcarriers; these can be bonded inside a block spectrum that could end up being about 200 MHz wide.[6] DOCSIS 3.1 technology also includes some new energy management features that will help the cable industry reduce its energy usage, and the DOCSIS-PIE[7] algorithm to reduce bufferbloat.[8] In the United States, broadband provider Comcast announced in February 2016 that several cities within its footprint will have DOCSIS 3.1 availability before the end of the year.[9] At the end of 2016, Mediacom announced it would become the first major U.S. cable company to fully transition to the DOCSIS 3.1 platform.[10]
Thank you for that information.
By now has Comcast fully transitioned all of it's locations/customers to 3.1 or do I have to call them to find out what is supported in my area?
Please do your own research. I don't work for Comcast, I just use it. You can sign into your account, and/or enter your street address, and their tool will tell you which cable modems will work at your address.
I just checked my girlfriend's house, for example, and they show DOCSIS 3.1 modems as approved choices, at speeds up to gigabit. They wouldn't say that if DOCSIS 3.1 wasn't implemented.
See: https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/list-of-approved-cable-modems (https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/list-of-approved-cable-modems)
Of course, I'm certainly happy to do my own research and have been doing that through this process. I was simply asking as you seemed to be an expert/knowledgeable about 3.1 and it's implementation and benefits. As you posted the information about 3.1, I thought you might know. But as I noted in my post, I was prepared to call Comcast to find out.
Thanks very much again for all your help.
As I've said, it's done it with two different routers so unless you have a specific setting for me to look at, I don't see how trying a 3rd router is productive.
Quote from: caleecs on May 20, 2020, 04:42:53 PM
Of course, I'm certainly happy to do my own research and have been doing that through this process. I was simply asking as you seemed to be an expert/knowledgeable about 3.1 and it's implementation and benefits. As you posted the information about 3.1, I thought you might know. But as I noted in my post, I was prepared to call Comcast to find out.
I used an Arris SB2182 Docsis 3.0 with Comcast for 12 months starting in April 2018 with good results. Fine for voip, bandwidth good for 300mb. There were a couple hiccups of a few minutes but I attributed them to work being done by Comcast. The setup for the Obi with Callcentric / Obi 200 is pretty straight forward.
Thanks for the data point.
to Caleecs
I would note that in my experience, how well your voip works can be directly dependent on your selection of router. Get the best router that you feel you can operate/afford. If you go with Comcast's combined modem/router you may not have many options about how the router is set up for voip. After all, Their standard modem contains rj-11 phone ports and they want to sell you their phone service.
My current router is an ASUS Router RT-AC68U which I have had for a year. It's an older model, but I picked it as it had the best reviews after extensive research.
Oops, I gave you an incorrect model number. My last [Comcast] modem was Arris SB6183. Looks like a later model is SB6190. 1gb capable but still Docsis 3.0. I think [but not sure] these two modems operate in a "bridge" mode, which is recommended for voip use. You may want to verify.
I'm a Newbie, so I hope I'm not doing anything too wrong by posting here. I tried several times to direct my message to caleecs (who started this thread) but got an error message each time. That's why I'm taking a shot at conveying my message by replying within this thread.
Below is the message I was trying to send. I've looked extensively through this forum about how to set up a whitelist on Obi and have a general idea of how to proceed. However, if anyone cares to provide me with some specific advice or details, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Hi caleecs,
The subject line did not permit the complete URL to show up. It's https://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=17054.0. (May, 2020)
In that forum thread you mentioned the following: "And the most important feature is the whitelist for phone calls integrated with the Google Contacts." I've been spending an inordinate amount of time trying to set up a whitelist for Google Voice. I followed advice about how to do it by using Legacy Google Voice, the Groups tab, etc. I believe I did everything correctly, but it did not work. (I also believe I correctly set up groups using the Labels feature of the current version of GV.) I subsequently discovered in a GV forum that GV no longer recognizes settings in the Groups tab of the legacy version (https://support.google.com/voice/thread/62030486/update-7-30-2020-portions-of-the-old-legacy-web-user-interface-will-be-disabled-on-8-11-2020?hl=en).
I'm writing to ask you if your comment about setting up a "whitelist for phone calls integrated with the Google Contacts" is out of date or if you have discovered some workaround within GV. I suppose an alternative is to set up a whitelist within my Obi202.
BTW, I found a lot of useful info in the forum thread you started. Thanks.
Best regards,
larryjb
P.S. I'm re-sending this because I'm not sure if my original attempt was successful.
Quote from: larryjb on July 30, 2021, 02:25:57 PM
I subsequently discovered in a GV forum that GV no longer recognizes settings in the Groups tab of the legacy version (https://support.google.com/voice/thread/62030486/update-7-30-2020-portions-of-the-old-legacy-web-user-interface-will-be-disabled-on-8-11-2020?hl=en).
I'm writing to ask you if your comment about setting up a "whitelist for phone calls integrated with the Google Contacts" is out of date or if you have discovered some workaround within GV. I suppose an alternative is to set up a whitelist within my Obi202.
My announcement post on the Google Voice help community, which you linked, is still accurate. There are only a few settings left on the Legacy settings page that will be migrated to the new website (https://voice.google.com/u/0/settings (https://voice.google.com/u/0/settings)). The "Groups" feature will not be migrated exactly as it functions today, but it will be replaced with something that has similar or improved features. I can't post a release date. Any bugs that pop up in the Legacy settings before that old UI goes away are very unlikely to be fixed.
I would not invest any time in setting up a whitelist for now, as it is unclear what will carry over to the new UI.
Quote from: larryjb on July 30, 2021, 02:25:57 PM
I'm a Newbie, so I hope I'm not doing anything too wrong by posting here. I tried several times to direct my message to caleecs (who started this thread) but got an error message each time. That's why I'm taking a shot at conveying my message by replying within this thread.
Below is the message I was trying to send. I've looked extensively through this forum about how to set up a whitelist on Obi and have a general idea of how to proceed. However, if anyone cares to provide me with some specific advice or details, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Hi caleecs,
The subject line did not permit the complete URL to show up. It's https://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=17054.0. (May, 2020)
In that forum thread you mentioned the following: "And the most important feature is the whitelist for phone calls integrated with the Google Contacts." I've been spending an inordinate amount of time trying to set up a whitelist for Google Voice. I followed advice about how to do it by using Legacy Google Voice, the Groups tab, etc. I believe I did everything correctly, but it did not work. (I also believe I correctly set up groups using the Labels feature of the current version of GV.) I subsequently discovered in a GV forum that GV no longer recognizes settings in the Groups tab of the legacy version (https://support.google.com/voice/thread/62030486/update-7-30-2020-portions-of-the-old-legacy-web-user-interface-will-be-disabled-on-8-11-2020?hl=en).
I'm writing to ask you if your comment about setting up a "whitelist for phone calls integrated with the Google Contacts" is out of date or if you have discovered some workaround within GV. I suppose an alternative is to set up a whitelist within my Obi202.
BTW, I found a lot of useful info in the forum thread you started. Thanks.
Best regards,
larryjb
P.S. I'm re-sending this because I'm not sure if my original attempt was successful.
You can configure an OBi device to only ring the phone on calls from specified numbers. Of course if you have configured GV to forward incoming calls to additional endpoints they will still ring.
^^spam