I get a very loud buzz whenever I connect through the OBi110 to the PSTN phone line. I'm not talking about an interference hum -- this is a loud buzzing noise, not a background sound. It's not a dial-tone-type buzz, but a continuous, loud raspberry sound.
If I try to make a call through the OBi by just dialing the number (with PSTN set as my primary service), as soon as the call tries to go through, I hear one ring (apparently generated by the OBi) and then the loud buzz starts.
If I just press # to bypass the OBi, the buzz starts immediately after I press #, instead of the dial tone.
I've tested the phone line by reconnecting the phone back to the telco jack directly, and there's nothing wrong there. The patch cables are also fine. I've also tried a full factory reset of the OBi110 without any difference.
My device is only two days old, and it was working yesterday.
Seems like you have tried most of the usual checks. I would double check / change the cord from the Line Port to the Telco jack.
OBi devices are quite robust. However, quite a few problems have been reported with their power supplies. Loud buzzing that only appears on an analogue circuit may indicate a faulty power supply. Change with a compatible one if you can.
It could be that you are simply unlucky and your Line Port is faulty on your OBi device. If so, then put in a support ticket. Obihai have a good record of replacing defective devices.
> I would double check / change the cord from the Line Port to the Telco jack.
Double checked / changed. No difference.
> Loud buzzing that only appears on an analogue circuit may indicate a faulty power supply. Change with a compatible one if you can.
Changed. No difference.
> It could be that you are simply unlucky and your Line Port is faulty on your OBi device. If so, then put in a support ticket.
Put in. Waiting.
Disappointing.
Thanks.
Spoke with OBi support. Unit apparently defective.
RMA'ed.
NewEgg is taking care of the exchange, after some prodding and invocation of the magic "supervisor" word.
Well, not quite...
I received a second, brand-new OBi110 from NewEgg to replace the one with the loud buzzing noise on the PSTN line.
It had the same problem, which started 5 or 10 minutes after I connected it, around the time that I received my first incoming PSTN call through the OBi. I hadn't made any configuration changes, other than activating it via OBiTalk.
Again, this isn't just a background hum. It's a very loud buzz, with no other sound (no dial tone, no voice), as soon as the call switches into the PSTN line.
OBi Support thought it might be "a coincidence" that I got two defective OBi110's in a row, but I'm skeptical. I'm thinking that something, somehow caused the OBi line port to fry itself when I connected it to my phone line. But I've never had any phone, fax machine, or computer modem get fried from the same phone line, so it really doesn't make any sense.
Does anyone have any ideas about this?
Thanks,
JON
Quote from: Jon9999 on July 23, 2013, 11:56:46 AM
Again, this isn't just a background hum. It's a very loud buzz, with no other sound (no dial tone, no voice), as soon as the call switches into the PSTN line.
OBi Support thought it might be "a coincidence" that I got two defective OBi110's in a row, but I'm skeptical. I'm thinking that something, somehow caused the OBi line port to fry itself when I connected it to my phone line. But I've never had any phone, fax machine, or computer modem get fried from the same phone line, so it really doesn't make any sense.
I agree that this is not just coincidence.
I would probe things with a voltmeter. See what kind of voltages you get from protective AC ground to the phone line wires. Normal would be about -50 DC volts on one phone wire and about zero on the other phone line. Check with AC also. It should be near zero on both wires if your meter is one of those which ignores DC when it is in the AC mode.
I would also check for voltage from AC protective ground to an independent ground such as a water faucet or other available ground. Use the AC mode on the meter for that.
It may be that the OBi110 was not fried, but some kind of ground fault was interfering. I have not figured out what that could be.
Try plugging the unit on a separate circuit in another room of your residence. If you have another surge protector, I would try that unit as well. Do a test with and without the "new" surge protector.
Better yet, could you take the unit to another location (one of your neighbors?) that have a PSTN line and test. There might be a problem with either your PSTN Line or your electrical system as Shale suggested.
To Shale:
Probe with a voltmeter??? Really? I wouldn't know a voltmeter from an ice cream cone. And my A/C is nowhere near the phone system, so I know it's not coming from that.
To RFord:
I tried plugging it into another electric outlet on a different circuit, and it still buzzes. At this point, the unit seems fried so it will buzz no matter where I plug it in. I also tried plugging it into a different PSTN line -- same. I didn't have the phone connected through a surge protector, so I'll make sure to do that when #3 comes -- but I can't imagine that two power surges came through the phone line at the precise moment when I hooked up the OBi, given that I've never had any phone/fax/modem equipment damaged ever on the same line from a power surge.
I will try to protect
Quote from: Jon9999 on July 23, 2013, 02:05:08 PM
To Shale:
Probe with a voltmeter??? Really? I wouldn't know a voltmeter from an ice cream cone. And my A/C is nowhere near the phone system, so I know it's not coming from that.
Ask your friends, your children, or your parents. One will have a voltmeter. That person will know how to use it. After watching, and presuming you are not a dedicated technophobe, you too could buy and use a $10 or $20 multimeter (voltmeter and ohmmeter combined). They are helpful with cars and more.
The phone system is plugged into the Line port of the OBi110. It may take more than 2 hands, but you can probe the two middle conductors of the cable that you unplugged from the OBi using a sewing needle as a small probe. One person can do that-- maybe your friend. The other person probes the protective ground on your outlet strip. Both of you can see the meter, which is sitting on something. The protective ground of an outlet is the roundish or D-shaped hole, rather than the flat holes.
Thanks, Shale, but nobody I know is going to be sticking sewing needles into electric outlets. I just don't run in that kind of crowd, I guess. I can hire an electrician, but it's just not worth it in the end.
Is there any type of plug-and-play device (not expensive) that I can use to test this out?
And what I really don't understand is that if there is indeed something wrong with my voltage or my ground or whatever, then how come I've never had any problem with any other phone or answering machine or fax machine or modem or TiVo that I've plugged into the very same phone line?
I know you are convinced that the unit is defective, but I would try one more test. Do you have another power supply with the same specs as the OBi110 power supply? Try using that and see if the buzzing sound goes away. I find it hard to believe that you received two defective OBi110s.
BTW, when you say you test a different PSTN Line, are you talking about the same PSTN Line in your house, but at another location?
To RFord: Too late, I've already shipped unit #2 back to New Egg for another replacement. I did try with another power supply, as recommended by Ian way above. Didn't make a difference. When I said I tested with another line, I did so in my apartment, both at the same jack (I have 2 lines) and at another jack. I don't have anywhere else to test it -- I'm the last landline holdout among my friends.
But I should make it clear that the buzzing sound isn't something that sounds like it would ever go away. It's **not** an interference sound. It's like a very loud electric razor, constant, and it starts the instant I connect to the LINE port (either by pressing #, by making a call that routes to li, or by answering an incoming PSTN call). The buzzing doesn't just obscure the conversation of the call, it seems to prevent the call going through entirely.
Also, let me clarify that I agree with you that it's hard to believe that I had two defective units. More likely, there's something about my phone line that caused the innards of both units to fry. That's why I was really hoping that someone might be able to figure this out, before unit #3 arrives tomorrow and it gets fried, too.
Is it possible that the line voltage or the ring voltage on my phone line is somehow abnormal, or that there's something else about my phone line that's causing this to happen? I can't do the voltmeter test suggested above, but I did call Verizon and asked them to run a diagnostic. They said the line checked out fine -- but I don't quite understand how they can say the ring voltage is normal without actually testing while the phone is ringing, which they didn't do. I do live in an old building, so it's possible that there are some crossed wires somewhere along the line, but my phone service is just fine (no abnormal static or anything).
Here are details of how I hooked up the OBi110 (see diagram below). I think this is all kosher, but perhaps I'm missing something that contributed to the trouble:
I have 2 POTS phone lines coming into my apartment on the same wire. From the NID at the front door, the 2 pairs pass through a single cable in the walls into the interior media closet, where they terminate in a single RJ11 jack on a patch panel. Pre-OBi, that jack was patched via a patch cable into an 8-port common bus, which is in turn patched into the other individual RJ11 jacks that are connected through the walls to the various phone jacks throughout my house in a "star" manner. There are 5 or 6 active phones plugged in, most with dual-line (L1/L2) capability.
I installed the OBi110 in the phone closet, between the incoming RJ11 port and the bridge, along the wire for Line 1. I used a standard-issue modular 2-line splitter that splits the initial 2-line RJ11 into a Line 1 jack (R/G to R/G) and a Line 2 jack (Y/B to R/G). The splitter's Line 1 jack was connected to the OBi110's LINE port, and the OBi110's PHONE port was connected to the Line 1 jack of a second modular splitter, which was in turn plugged into the 8-port bridge to connect to all the other house jacks. The two Line 2 jacks on the splitters were patched directly together. As such, Line 1 was passing through the OBi while Line 2 bypassed the OBi.
_____ _____
| R | | B |===TO LIVING RM JACK (L1)
TELCO/LINE 1 (R/G)---| J | /--(R/G=L1)---[OBi]---\ | |===TO BEDROOM JACK (L1/L2)
TELCO/LINE 2 (Y/B)---| 1 |==SPLITTER< >SPLITTER==| U |===TO KITCHEN JACK (L1/L2)
| 1 | \ / | |===TO OFFICE JACK (L1/L2)
~~~~~ \--(R/G=L2)---------/ | S |===TO DINING RM JACK (L1)
~~~~~
<----NID--------> <---------------MEDIA CLOSET---------------------------> <---REST OF HOUSE---->
The only things new about this setup since the OBi arrived is the OBi and the two splitters. All the other wiring and the bus have been in place for years, and the wiring is sound and patched correctly. The splitters also check out okay, as do all the patch cables. I should also add that I've had plenty of phone equipment hooked up on this system over the years, including SIP/VoIP units, fax machines, old-fashioned phones, electric phones, modems, a TiVo, etc., without any other device ever getting its brains fried out before or even dying under mysterious circumstances. Line 2 works fine, bypassing the OBi. There is not and never has been any "leakage" between the Line 1 and Line 2 circuits.
The final clue here is that when I first hooked up the initial OBi several days ago, everything seemed to work fine for the first few hours. I was able to place and receive calls through the OBi on all services (SP1, SP2, LI [Telco Line 1), and OBiTalk), as well as directly through Telco Line 2 (non-OBi). The only thing I thought was odd was that when I placed PSTN calls on the OBi line by pressing # to direct connect, the first several DTMF tones sounded sort of overmodulated somehow every time, but by the final digit of each call, the tones sounded normal again. But several hours later, when I tried to make another PSTN call, the buzzing came on as soon as the PSTN line engaged. The second OBi also seemed to work, but it lasted only for 15 minutes, until I received an incoming PSTN call on Telco Line 1 (the line connected through the OBi) and picked up the receiver to hear only the loud buzzing.
Oh, and one more thing: To simplify everything, when I connected the 2nd OBi today, I didn't even hook it into the whole-house bus shown above. I connected everything to the left of the OBi in the diagram above, then connected a separate, dedicated phone to the PHONE port of the OBi. I did all my testing of the OBi with that dedicated phone (for the 15 minutes before it died). So I know that whatever killed the OBis came from the left side of the diagram, not the right.
I really do appreciate all the help here. I truly want to keep the OBi and for the new one coming tomorrow to outlast the first two by several years.
Thanks.
JON
Before you plug OBi #3 in to your home wiring and fry it too, I'd suggest testing it this way: Go out to your Verizon NID, and unplug all jacks (or unscrew and remove all wires if it's not modular) leading into your house. If you have a modular (RJ-11) NID, plug your analog telephone into the jack for L1, and verify it works. Next, unplug the phone from the NID, and instead, plug it into the PHONE port on the OBi. Now, plug a modular phone cord (preferably one with only 2-conductor RJ-11 jacks on it) into the NID and into the LINE port of your OBi, and see if you still get the loud buzz on the attached phone. My bet is that you won't. If you don't, then you might be inadvertently feeding your external (POTS) line 1 or 2 into into the line 1 wiring somewhere, and it's getting into the OBi on the PHONE side, thus frying the circuitry. I know you said all your wiring and jacks are correct, but it is so easy to overlook one error like this. For example, one of your many other phones may be incorrectly wired. Or, one of your splitter jacks could be the wrong type. Or, one of your analog phones on the L1 pair has a faulty AC power adapter on it, that is feeding AC noise into the phone lines, and the OBi happens to be sensitive to it.
If this isn't the issue (or, if by miracle, OBi #1 and #2 were both bad and #3 good, which I seriously doubt), then I'd concur with Shale that you need someone to test for AC (he meant Alternating Current, not Air Conditioning!) voltage leaking onto your phone lines. A loud buzz is usually some form of AC. POTS phone lines are -48 to -52 volts DC when on-hook (hung up), and around 100 volts AC when ringing. You can actually see this on the OBi expert configuration page, but it wouldn't show you the fault you are experiencing, unless the magic smoke starts escaping from the OBi. :o
Steve is right on the money.
Thanks again, gents.
I don't seem to be getting this one thing across well: The buzzing is not something that comes and goes. It just comes, and it stays. It's more of the sound of the post-fried state than the sound of temporary badness. So the part about "see if you still get the loud buzz on the attached phone" doesn't really make sense. No matter what, when I first plug the new OBi in -- anywhere -- I won't get the buzz. The buzz will start at some point when whatever happened happens again, and then it will be permanent. Not getting the buzz on jack X doesn't mean it won't happen eventually on jack X or on jack Y -- and once it happens, it's irreversible. With the two units so far, one took 12 hours to go bad on me and the other took 12 minutes. So how will I ever know that it's "safe" until it isn't? At some point (if not already), NewEgg is going to stop wanting to send me replacement OBis.
Sorry to keep pushing this point, but I think it's key.
Re-read what Steve said. He's basically telling you that YOU are frying your OBi's and telling you how to properly test for that. If you do what he says and leave it like that over night and the OBi doesn't fry you have your answer.
I suspect that his AC protective ground could be hot, although I don't know if that would account for the symptoms.
Shale,
OK, I borrowed a voltmeter. I'll try to test the phone line voltage as you and Steve described earlier. So I should put one probe on the red wire of the wall jack and the other into the ground plug of a wall socket, right? And then do it again with the green wire and the ground plug? And then do both again while calling my number from another phone to make it ring?
Can you please tell me how to test the protective ground? (And just wondering... why would it matter about the ground? The OBi's AC adapter is only 2-prong, so it doesn't even connect to ground, right?) Oh, and I'm using a surge protector that has a "Grounded" and "Protected" lights, and they're both normal. Does that answer the question about the ground being okay, or is it something else?
Thanks.
Quote from: SteveInWA on July 24, 2013, 12:23:34 AMyou might be inadvertently feeding your external (POTS) line 1 or 2 into into the line 1 wiring somewhere, and it's getting into the OBi on the PHONE side, thus frying the circuitry
Good thought, but I doubt it for a few reasons:
- With the 2nd OBi, I had connected the OBi PHONE jack only to an individual phone, not into the bus or into the house wiring, before it died. So nothing could have been getting back into the OBi PHONE jack from anywhere.
- I don't hear Line 2 when I use a Line 1 phone or vice versa, and when there's an incoming call on one of the lines, the other one doesn't ring. So I don't think there's any feed from one of the lines into the other.
- The PHONE side of the dead OBi units continued to work just fine. I could still make GV and SIP calls, with no buzzing. It was only the LINE side that was buzzing, so it seems that if there was some sort of damage, it was on the LINE side only.
I've received the new unit, but I'll hold off on hooking it up until I get a better handle on this. I'll try to do the volt testing that you and Shale suggested, but I'm a little leery of sticking things into electric sockets.
Quote from: Jon9999 on July 24, 2013, 08:22:22 AM
Shale,
OK, I borrowed a voltmeter. I'll try to test the phone line voltage as you described earlier. So I should put one probe on the red wire of the wall jack and the other into the ground plug of a wall socket, right? And then do it again with the green wire and the ground plug? And then do both again while calling my number from another phone to make it ring?
Can you please tell me how to test the protective ground? (And just wondering... why would it matter about the ground? The OBi's AC adapter is only 2-prong, so it doesn't even connect to ground, right?) Oh, and I'm using a surge protector that has a "Grounded" and "Protected" lights, and they're both normal. Does that answer the question about the ground being okay, or is it something else?
Thanks.
I must apologize. I was thinking that the OBi power adapter was 3-prong and the protective ground pin was connected to the chassis of the OBi. I was wrong-- it is a 2-prong plug on my OBi202. . Thus a problem with the protective ground would not have affected the OBi110-- presuming your AC adapter is a 2-pin 120 VAC (volts AC) power adapter also. Sorry I brought this up, but since you have the meter in hand, probing around won't hurt, and it might help. Since I don't have a specific theory now, I will ramble on a bit.
Let me say that it if the meter is in the AC volt setting with a high enough range, there is no place around your phones or computer that you can stick the probes that will damage the meter. With most digital meters, sticking the probes on a 120 vac voltage will not damage the meter, even if the range is much lower. The thing to be careful of is to not have the meter in the current (ma, A, or amps) mode or the resistance mode when probing voltage.
For your personal safety, hold the meter probes by the insulated handles. If you use sewing needles to probe the phone line, and you need to hold the metal part of the probes to a sewing needle, wear gloves. Thin cotton is fine. Rubber gloves are fine.
I suggest putting the meter into the 20 volt AC range and see what you get across a battery. If the voltmeter rejects DC, you will probably get near zero in the AC (direct current) mode of the meter and about 9 or 1.5 volts on DC -- depending on the battery. My OBi power adapter shows 12.26 DC between the inner and outer conductors of the plug that plugs into the OBi.
Then, with the exceptions of the protective grounds, look for AC voltages where they should not be, such as the pins of the telephone wires. It is OK to measure voltages between the protective ground pin on an outlet (5 in picture) and the phone wires. (http://macnauchtan.com/circuits/CARD/DuplexParts.PNG)
Here is a cable connector that might plug into your OBi110 in the Line position. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/RJ14-pinout.png) In this image, pair 1, which the OBi110, is labeled as pins 2 and 3. The other pair, which I would have thought would be not connected internally to the OBi are pins 1 and 4. There may be some suspicion that the OBi110 might connect to those pins internally. I don't know.
So anyway, probe around. Report what you find, and something anomalous may pop up.
OK, voltage tests! (And I didn't get electrocuted!) (And Shale, I was never worried about damaging the meter -- I was worried about dying. :o )
DC tests (red probe on the jack, black probe in the ground hole of an electric socket):
TELCO LINE 1 (the one that OBi was on):
wire ON HOOK OFF HOOK ringing
----- ----------- --------- ----------------
RED -0.4 VDC -20.5 VDC +0.1 to -2.1 VDC
GREEN -51.6 VDC -29.1 VDC -48.0 to -60.8 VDC
----- ----------- --------- ----------------
TELCO LINE 2 (the one that bypassed OBi):
wire ON HOOK OFF HOOK ringing
----- ----------- --------- ----------------
BLACK -0.1 VDC -20.4 VDC 0.0 to -2.1 VDC
YELLOW -51.7 VDC -29.2 VDC -48.1 to -58.9 VDC [added off hook since original post]
----- ----------- --------- ----------------
AC tests (red probe on the jack, black probe in the ground hole of an electric socket):
TELCO LINE 1 (the one that OBi was on):
wire not ringing ringing
----- ----------- ----------------
RED 0.3 VAC 1.5 VAC
GREEN 0.2 VAC 91.0 VAC
----- ----------- ----------------
TELCO LINE 2 (the one that bypassed OBi):
wire not ringing ringing
----- ----------- ----------------
BLACK 0.4 VAC 0.8 VAC
YELLOW 0.2 VAC 91.4 VAC [corrected from original post]
----- ----------- ----------------
I just noticed one thing, which I don't know whether it's normal or the problem.
I re-tested all the wires with the connected phone off-hook (not ringing). I notice that the DC voltages changed considerably by 20-30 V compared to on-hook as reported above. I've added the new observations to the original table above. The AC voltages seemed to spike a tiny bit (a few volts) when I first took the phone off-hook, but then they settled back down pretty quickly at the same on-hook voltages.
I also tried looking at the voltages on Line 2 while taking Line 1 off- and on-hook (and vice-versa), and there was no effect. I also tried looking at the voltages on Line 2 when Line 1 was ringing (and vice-versa), and there was no effect.
I have to congratulate you on your testing and reporting. Marking VAC or VDC for reading could be an improvement, but I don't think that will show anything significant. I see nothing abnormal in your measurements, unfortunately. Just check that your OBi power supply has 2 prongs and not 3 where you plug into the wall or outlet strip.
One thing that does hit me is that do you have a remote door lock control or buzzer or something shared with line 1? Maybe moving the OBi to line 2 would be a good idea in that case. Even then, I don't know what would cause your continual buzzing.
_____ _____
| R | | B |===TO LIVING RM JACK (L1)
TELCO/LINE 1 (R/G)---| J | /--(R/G=L2)---[OBi]---\ | |===TO BEDROOM JACK (L1/L2)
TELCO/LINE 2 (Y/B)---| 1 |==SPLITTER< >SPLITTER==| U |===TO KITCHEN JACK (L1/L2)
| 1 | \ / | |===TO OFFICE JACK (L1/L2)
~~~~~ \--(R/G=L1)---------/ | S |===TO DINING RM JACK (L1)
~~~~~
<----NID--------> <---------------MEDIA CLOSET---------------------------> <---REST OF HOUSE---->
One further test comes to mind. Before a possible shipping back your third fried OBi, try it on a phone line at a different location. Maybe it is not frying the OBi, but that at some point your doorbell system puts a kind of interference (look up "common mode" if you are wondering what I am envisioning) on the wires that your phone rejects but the OBi does not sufficiently. The big flaw in this is why would the interference not be there at the beginning, but always be there for the same OBi110 even though you plugged and unplugged several times This is a strange situation, so I am coming up with weird ideas.
Quote from: Jon9999 on July 24, 2013, 10:01:23 AM
I just noticed one thing, which I don't know whether it's normal or the problem.
I re-tested all the wires with the connected phone off-hook (not ringing). I notice that the DC voltages changed considerably by 20-30 V compared to on-hook as reported above. I've added the new observations to the original table above. The AC voltages seemed to spike a tiny bit (a few volts) when I first took the phone off-hook, but then they settled back down pretty quickly at the same on-hook voltages.
I also tried looking at the voltages on Line 2 while taking Line 1 off- and on-hook (and vice-versa), and there was no effect. I also tried looking at the voltages on Line 2 when Line 1 was ringing (and vice-versa), and there was no effect.
It is normal for the off-hook voltage to drop, although the voltage usually drops by a lot more than what you are observing. Off hook voltages that I have seen have all been less than 15 volts across an off-hook phone line. I will do some looking to see what this might indicate. It may be normal.
Thanks, Shale. There's no doorbell or other service on either line -- just POTS. The only difference between L1 and L2 is that L1 has Distinctive Ring service, so when it rings, it rings with a different pattern than L2. But it's a US telco-standard (Verizon) ring. Both lines have Call Waiting, Caller ID, and all that -- but no other kind of other input from the outside, not even DSL service. On the inside, I do have a fax machine on L1 and not L2, but I don't think the problem is coming from the inside as I said previously because the damage (if it really is electrical damage) is on the OBi jack that faces the outside.
I'll add "VAC" and "VDC" respectively above.
Quote from: Shale on July 24, 2013, 10:05:46 AMIt is normal for the off-hook voltage to drop, although the voltage usually drops by a lot more than what you are observing. Off hook voltages that I have seen have all been less than 15 volts across an off-hook phone line. I will do some looking to see what this might indicate. It may be normal.
The voltages I reported above were DC from the phone wire to ground. So the voltage
across the line would be the difference between red-to-ground and green-to-ground, for example, which is indeed less than 15 volts (8.6 V). That's right, right?
Quote from: Jon9999 on July 24, 2013, 10:18:43 AM
The voltages I reported above were DC from the phone wire to ground. So the voltage across the line would be the difference between red-to-ground and green-to-ground, for example, which is indeed less than 15 volts (8.6 V). That's right, right?
I agree.
I'm tearing all my wires (and all my hair) out...
I've noticed by using a RJ11/RJ45 tester that on some of my telephone cords, the wiring goes straight through (pin 4 <-> pin 4 and pin 5 <-> pin 5), while on other of my telephone cords, the wiring is crossed over (pin 4 <-> pin 5 and pin 5 <-> pin 4). The cables that came with OBi are in the latter category, but my phone cords are pretty much split evenly between the two patterns. Similar for pins 3 and 6. The in-wall cables are all straight-through.
Does this matter? I'm assuming not, since R (pin 4) and G (pin 5) are interchangeable, but I'm trying to find SOMETHING before committing involuntary obicide again.
Quote from: Jon9999 on July 24, 2013, 11:43:11 AM
I'm tearing all my wires (and all my hair) out...
I've noticed by using a RJ11/RJ45 tester that on some of my telephone cords, the wiring goes straight through (pin 4 <-> pin 4 and pin 5 <-> pin 5), while on other of my telephone cords, the wiring is crossed over (pin 4 <-> pin 5 and pin 5 <-> pin 4). The cables that came with OBi are in the latter category, but my phone cords are pretty much split evenly between the two patterns. Similar for pins 3 and 6. The in-wall cables are all straight-through.
Does this matter? I'm assuming not, since R (pin 4) and G (pin 5) are interchangeable, but I'm trying to find SOMETHING before committing involuntary obicide again.
Using 1...8 numbering, yes, what you describe for phone cables is normal for phone cables 4-5 and 5-4 for pair 1 plus 6-3 and 3-6 for pair 2. Straight through would work fine. Ethernet cables are always straight through, although the twisting in them is important for ethernet... but not so much for phone for phone.
Normal.
Sigh. I did understand what you meant about how and when the buzzing started. Based on your additional information and testing, my assumption is that, after some (variable/unknown, as you now point out) amount of time, the OBi gets "fried" by something other than normal telco voltages on the line jack. Given that your basic voltmeter test results are normal/nominal, then I suggest that you do as Rick said: plug a known-good analog telephone (preferably one without its own power supply/AC adapter) into the phone jack, plug the OBi's line jack into the NID, and let it "cook" at least overnight. What's the rush? Take the time to prove that the device itself isn't just a crappy production run, before adding more complexity to your situation.
If it dies, call Obihai, and demand to get some help from them -- suggest that they have a big problem on their hands, and they, not Newegg, RMA-swap your box and send you another one, and ideally, they test the failed box to see why it failed.
I would also recommend that you call Verizon repair service again. Tell them that you have been frying some equipment when plugging into their circuits, and ask them to send a truck out to your location to test the NID for a possible ground fault. If the NID isn't properly, tightly connected to a reliable, true ground per the National Electrical Code (like a cold water pipe or a ground rod in the earth), then you can get ground loops or static discharge on the phone lines.
Depending on the age of your residential 110 AC wiring and the competency of the person who installed it, you may also have one or more outlets that are not properly grounded, or the neutral (white wire) isn't properly bonded to ground at the electrical service panel. You'd need to hire a licensed electrician to test that, or at least buy an outlet tester at the hardware or big-box store. This isn't likely your problem, but since it's been brought up repeatedly, you might as well get some peace of mind. And, speaking of house wiring, it is not unusual to find that the phone wiring, or even the AC wiring, has been punctured somewhere inside a wall by a nail, drywall screw, wire staple or rodent teeth. My house was built in 1989, and it has a flaky line 2 pair of an 8-wire bundle, somewhere inside a wall, likely caused by a puncture.
As an aside, regarding voltage testing and safety: the better/safer way to test phone wiring (vs. the "sewing needle" method) is to cut the modular plug end off of a phone cord, strip off a couple inches of the grey jacket, and strip each of the 4 wire conductors. Then, use an alligator clip to attach your voltmeter leads to your new "phone wiring test cable". On-hook voltage is, as you found, about 50 VDC. This won't kill you, or even hurt much. Off hook is much lower, since there is now an impedance across the line that lowers the voltage. It is the RINGER voltage that will hurt, since it's ~100V AC, and, as Thomas Edison used to demonstrate by electrocuting small animals, to try to scare people into fearing his competitor's AC power, 100V AC hurts more than DC, but only during the brief ring cycle. You wouldn't die, unless you were sitting in a bathtub, though...it's just one of those OWWW $#&%$! moments.
RE: phone cord wiring: all telephone cords should have the 4 wires crimped to the RJ-11 jack on one end in the opposite direction from the jack on the other end. Throw away any that aren't built like that. Ethernet RJ-45 jacks are wired straight through, unless, of course, it's a "crossover" cable.
So, using the photo of the RJ-11 jack in this thread, one end should be 1-2-3-4 = B-R-G-Y and the other end should be Y-G-R-B. Modern telephone equipment doesn't care about polarity, as did the old Western Electric phones, but you never know if some weird phone device DOES care, and the cords are so cheap that there is no reason to keep any cords that are wired bass-ackwards. If you are a cheapskate, or you want to make custom-length cables, you can buy a crimping tool and a bag of RJ-11 jacks and crimp them accordingly. If you have a HP OfficeJet or similar fax machine, be sure it is connected to the phone line with a 2-conductor, not 4-conductor cord. I don't understand why, but this has always been a requirement by HP, and I assume they are doing something non-standard with the outer conductor pair.
Sigh.
One last question before I bite the bullet and plug the new OBi back in: Could it have something to do with Call Waiting? What happens, voltage-wise, then a CW signal comes through? Is it like a ring, with high-voltage AC? Could this be something that might damage the OBi? I tried testing with the voltmeter, but I couldn't coordinate getting the voltmeter on the contacts at the same moment that the beep came through.
As for my building wiring beyond (outside) my NID, it is definitely quite a mess. I live in an old building. The Verizon patch cabinet in the basement is a load of spaghetti, with loose wires sticking out all over the place. The wire for my apartment comes up from the basement in an elevator shaft, goes through more loose-wire/spaghetti in a junction box on my floor, then through my neighbor's apartment before it comes though a wall into my apartment, where the NID is located. The NID is just a phone-jack-like box -- nothing appears grounded to anything. The cable that comes into the NID is a really old, fabric-covered bundle with 4 thick-gauge, solid copper wires inside (R/G/B/Y). So it's a bit of the Wild West there, and I wouldn't be surprised if the signal of the Oprah Winfrey Show sometimes finds its way onto the Verizon wires!
The electrical wiring, sockets, and circuit breaker in my apartment was all completely replaced from the risers a few years by a licensed electrician during a gut renovation. The installation was inspected by the city and passed without problems.
Quote from: Jon9999 on July 24, 2013, 01:35:00 PM
Sigh.
One last question before I bite the bullet and plug the new OBi back in: Could it have something to do with Call Waiting? What happens, voltage-wise, then a CW signal comes through? Is it like a ring, with high-voltage AC? Could this be something that might damage the OBi? I tried testing with the voltmeter, but I couldn't coordinate getting the voltmeter on the contacts at the same moment that the beep came through.
Since 100 vac is normal ringing, the Line input to the OBi should be robust.
Call waiting is not a high-voltage event. There may or may not be momentary reversal of the polarity on the two phone wires, but no ringing voltage is involved.
I have another off-the-wall thought. There are a lot of old DSL filters sitting in people's drawers. I wonder if this might have some minor protective properties if placed between the OBi and the phone line. It is just a low-pass filter that passes frequencies less than 15 kHz. But it might add a little impedance to keep some mystery surge from doing damage. Getting OBi involved sounds useful. They might have some insight.
OK, gentlemen, I've connected the new (#3) OBi110. I put a 2-line splitter onto the NID itself and hooked the LINE port of the OBi directly into the Line 1 half of the splitter, right there at the NID, placing only a telephone surge protector in between. I hooked the PHONE port of the OBi directly into a stand-alone phone (it's a cordless one -- sorry, I don't have an old phone on hand that doesn't need to be plugged in). Both the OBi and the cordless phone are plugged into a surge protector that has built-in indicator lights showing that the AC circuit and grounding are OK. I'll let it cook a while and will report back. If it survives the night, I'll move the OBi into the media closet first, and finally I'll isolate both the PHONE and LINE ports with phone surge protectors before connecting the PHONE side back into the bus that connects to the rest of my phones.
24 hours in, with heavy use... So far, so good.
I've added a DSL filter between the NID and the LINE port, as Shale recommended earlier, in addition to the surge protector, as a "belt-and-suspenders" thing. (I don't have DSL service.)
I still haven't had the courage to connect the PHONE port to the rest of my internal phone network. It's still hooked up directly to just one cordless phone base, but I do have the first 2-line splitter between the NID and the LINE port (actually, between the DSL filter and the line port).
NID==[DSLFILTER]==<splitter>--<surgeprot>--[LINEPORT]OBi110[PHONEPORT]--(cordlessphone)
I think I'll give it another couple of days and then bite the bullet. I'll leave the DSL filter and the surge protector on the LINE side, and I'll add another DSL filter and surge protector on the PHONE side too before running back into the 2nd splitter and thence into the internal phone network bus.
NID==[DSLFILTER]==<surgeprot>--<splitter>--[LINEPORT]OBi110[PHONEPORT]--[DSLFILTER]--<unsplitter>==<surgeprot>==NETWORKBUS
Any other thoughts before I do this?
Unofficially: Do any of you have any thoughts on whether there is any chance at all that the problem came into the OBi from the PHONE side, since the effect (damage?) seems to have been solely on the LINE port? Can you see any way that hooking the PHONE side back into my phone network would have been the source of the problem? I'm sort of thinking that whatever happened must have come from the PHONE side, so I should be out of the woods. Right? (Why don't I believe myself?)
With regard to your question about the LINE side vs the PHONE: You didn't have Verizon come out and inspect/confirm that your NID is properly grounded. Without doing that, you can't be sure that some voltage surge/spike/lightening strike might damage your OBi, your attached phones, and/or yourself. If some other part of your house phone wiring (what you've been calling the "bus") is somehow carrying voltage it shouldn't be (as I discussed, via a damaged spot of wiring touching AC), you can create a path for current to flow. You want that current to flow to ground instead of into your equipment or into you. I'm just repeating this as a disclaimer.
That said, make sure you don't have a wiring error on your "bus", such that your jacks are still carrying your L1 signal from the NID. If so, and you plug in the OBi's PHONE jack into your bus, and the Verizon POTS L1 line rings, it'll send the 100+ VAC into the OBi's PHONE side and may fry it. The only way to be sure of this is to plug in a known-working, single line phone, into a jack on your bus and make sure it is dead, or use a tester.
Keep in mind that there are two types of RJ-11 splitters, that can look identical to the casual observer. One kind simply duplicates all 4 conductors on every jack, and the other kind breaks out L1 and L2. Be SURE you have the right kind, or you will be feeding L2 back into L1 or vice versa.
If you don't already have them, I'd strongly suggest buying two items of test equipment: an AC outlet tester (a plastic plug with LEDs on it, that show properly wired outlets vs. reversed polarity or bad ground), and a phone jack tester (a plastic dongle with LEDs on it, that shows live phone lines, reversed polarity, or dead lines). The first is available at any hardware or home warehouse store. The second used to be at Radio Shack, but seems to be gone. You can still find them online, for example:
http://www.amazon.com/Gardner-Bender-TT6200L-Phone-Tester/dp/B000GL95JA
You know, I've been thinking. Maybe it's wrong to hook the OBi in serial between my PSTN line and my internal phone network. Is it within the unit's design parameters to be used that way? Or should I perhaps connect the OBi on its own, isolated branch of my phone network, coming off a 2-way splitter at the NID, with its own separate telephone instrument? I know that means I'll have to use that particular phone when making a GV or SIP call and I won't be able to "flash" into the OBi from my other phones to do transfers, etc., but at least I'll be able to use OBiON, which is really the main point for me. It would be a trade-off, but maybe worth it if it means the unit won't fry again.
There is nothing wrong with connecting your OBi as POTS-->LINEonOBI-->PHONEonOBI-->all phones in house, as long as your are damn sure that your POTS is not also connected to the bus on the phone side. That's how I have mine connected, and it's worked fine for years.
Quote from: Jon9999 on July 25, 2013, 03:22:29 PM
You know, I've been thinking. Maybe it's wrong to hook the OBi in serial between my PSTN line and my internal phone network. Is it within the unit's design parameters to be used that way?
I see no problem with your current plan.
Quote from: SteveInWA on July 25, 2013, 03:20:06 PMYou didn't have Verizon come out and inspect/confirm that your NID is properly grounded.
The refused to come. They said they tested the line from the "automated equipment" at the central office, and that since it tested out okay, they would not send someone to my house. I pushed, jumped up and down, asked for a supervisor, etc., but they still said they would not come because they're certain there isn't a problem. Then they told me to have a nice day and thank you for using Verizon.
Quote from: SteveInWA on July 25, 2013, 03:20:06 PMThat said, make sure you don't have a wiring error on your "bus", such that your jacks are still carrying your L1 signal from the NID. ... The only way to be sure of this is to plug in a known-working, single line phone, into a jack on your bus and make sure it is dead, or use a tester.
Done. Dead. The bus, incidentally, is a professional panel (http://www.libertycable.com/prod_details.php?pitem=HBG-1008) meant for this purpose (with the Security System bypass feature switched off), not a homemade breadboard.
Quote from: SteveInWA on July 25, 2013, 03:20:06 PMKeep in mind that there are two types of RJ-11 splitters, that can look identical to the casual observer.
I know. These are definitely the line 1/line 2 variety (actually, L1/L2/L1+L2, with the 3rd spot unoccupied) and not the 4-connector to 4-connector-times-2 variety. I've triple-checked.
Quote from: SteveInWA on July 25, 2013, 03:20:06 PMIf you don't already have them, I'd strongly suggest buying two items of test equipment:
Actually, I have an electric surge protector with the ground/circuit test lights built in, and all my sockets check out. I also have an RJ45/RJ11 tester (similar to this (http://www.amazon.com/Paladin-Tools-70025-Network-Tester/dp/B000KMHL8M), and I've run all my internal wiring through it to make sure all the pins line up everywhere between the jacks and the patch board in the media closet. Check.
This is why this is so maddening. Everything seems to check out fine all around.
Quote from: SteveInWA on July 25, 2013, 03:30:11 PM
There is nothing wrong with connecting your OBi as POTS-->LINEonOBI-->PHONEonOBI-->all phones in house, as long as your are damn sure that your POTS is not also connected to the bus on the phone side. That's how I have mine connected, and it's worked fine for years.
Sigh. Well, it was a thought!
I'm damn sure indeed that Line 1 (the one that OBi uses) wasn't connected to the bus or anything beyond as well. I'm damn sure that only Line 2 (non-OBi) went directly to the bus. Could there have been "leakage" from Line 2 on the "bus" side back into Line 1? Well, maybe. I've tested that by probing Line 1 at the bus while making Line 2 ring with Line 1 disconnected at the NID, and I detected only a minuscule change in voltage, if any.
BUT... one slightly strange thing I have noticed this afternoon is that with Line 1 currently disconnected from the bus (it's going straight into the OBi at the NID, remember) and with only Line 2 coming through to the rest of the house, when I got an incoming call on Line 2, the "Line 1" light on BOTH of my 2-line phones also blinked. It didn't register a "ring," but the line selector light lit up momentarily. I don't know -- maybe that's expected because there's no voltage "holding" Line 1 in the on-hook state. When Line 1 was connected normally into this 2-line phone, Line 1 would never flash when Line 2 was called. One of these particular phone (AT&T Model TL86109 (http://telephones.att.com/products/product_detail/378)) has a feature that causes a call-waiting-like signal to come into the handset in you're on a call on one line when the other line rings. Maybe the light flashing has something to do with that? Come to think of it, could the whole problem have something to do with that???
Edit: Indicated that the Line 1 blinking thing was on BOTH of my 2-line phones (AT&T and an older Panasonic), not just the AT&T. On the Panasonic, I can tell that it's not the same kind of lamp-blinking as a ring. The ring-blink on Line 2 is a very fast oscillation blink, while what I'm seeing on the Line 1 lamp is a slow, steady, on-off-on-off-on-off flash, maybe twice a second.
No way to be sure, but I doubt the AT&T phone is the culprit, unless it it (or any of your phones, for that matter), are defective, and have a short internally. It sounds like they don't, based on your metering. I'd leave all but one physical telephone disconnected and go for it. If the OBi survives, and I bet it will, then you can add one more phone in at a time and retest, until you are happily finished, or in tears because it died again. That's the only way I know to proceed at this point.
*highly unlikely, but for the sake of OCD completeness: look at each phone's manufacturer label or documentation. Note the REN number. Make sure they all add up to less than 5.0, per:
http://www.obihai.com/docs/OBi110DS.pdf
I had the same problem: the loud static noise in the phone, which could not removed by the factory reset.
I found the solution and I am back with the VOIP, with the same old OBI device.
I have modem, router, OBI, and VGA=>HDMI adapter in one place.
Sometimes I need to restart internet modem and router, when one of the comps could not connect to the network.
It is recommended to unplug modem and router for one minute and then reconnect them back.
I obviously not unplugging them from outlet, but taking out power cord from the device itself, that low voltage end, which comes after transformer.
My entire family knows and does that.
Somehow, those ends were mixed up, probably between the three: modem, router, and OBI.
Modem and OBI require 12DC, router has input 5DC.
OBI is hardwired into router.
I don't know exactly, but 5DC was plugged either into modem or OBI, which resulted in that loud static noise.
At the same time wifi connection became unstable.
After I found about this mess and put power input cables in order, everything works fine.
OBI works, wifi is much more stable.
So, I labeled each end and told to all family members.
Obviously it is easy to mix up similar looking power ends after taking them off for one minute, nobody sits and looks at them, we are doing something else in between and turning back.
It is enough to mix them up.
Fortunately, hardware didn't fail on any devices.
So, input voltage might be the issue here; however, overpowered router, if OBI hardwired to it, also might contribute...