Need guidance configuring it all

[SnowLion]

Hi,

A bit of background ...we've been aware of Obihai VOIP for a while, but our home internet was not able to support VOIP reliably.  However, this summer fiber was brought into the neighborhood and within weeks we hooked up.  We have the 300 / 300 service and over wifi get 300+ / 250+ reliably.  We settled on an Obi202 because we'd like to be able to use our fax machine in addition to phone.  Also, it would be great if we can use the existing phone wiring that terminates in the junction box mounted next to the fiber gateway (ONT).

I'm thinking about a set-up such as the following and would greatly appreciate input from the great experts in this very helpful forum!  By the way, LL = Basement and UL = Upper Level.


                                 ------------- phone 1
    Phone Junction Box ------------- phone 2
               (LL)            ------------- fax
                  |
                  |
              Obi202
                (LL)
                  |
                  |
ONT --- Old Router --- Decent Gaming Router ----------- Router 2 as AP
(LL)         (LL)             (UL) used for wifi                       (UL2) to extend wifi


Would I configure both Routers in Routing mode?  Would I configure the Obi202 in Bridge mode?

Or, is there a better way to set things up and configure the various components in order to take advantage of the phone junction box and wiring throughout the home?  Here's what is available:

o  Obi202 that arrived 2 days ago!  Already working with GV.

o  Actiontec T2200H (Old Router in diagram) - wifi is terrible, only 1 band, etc. but it is Gigbit.  Was the Tel Co's standard issue modem / router.

o  Asus AC2900 - (Gaming Router in diagram) - dual core, Gigabit, dual band AC.

o  Asus RT66U - (Router 2 in diagram) - also Gigabit, single core, 2 band, but only N.  Was the only router until we upgraded to the AC2900 in anticipation of hooking up to the fiber service.  Great routing and wifi.

Many thanks for your expertise and guidance!

[drgeoff]

1.  Router or bridge mode for the OBi202 is irrelevant as you are not using its LAN port.

2.  If connecting OBi phone port(s) to house wiring ensure such wiring is properly physically disconnected from other phone service wiring. Else sooner or later the phone ports are very likely to be fried.

3.  Having two or more routers (in router mode) in series can bring problems.  In your configuration the LL one must be acting as a router.  Do not use the WAN ports of the UL and AP. Connect LL router to UL router and UL router  to AP router using their LAN ports.  Disable the DHCP servers in UL and AP.

[SnowLion]

Thank you drgeoff.

Thanks for the feedback as well as the warnings.  Thanks as well for your patience as I'm just a home IT experimenter.

I would like to use the "Gaming Router" as VPN server as LL is incapable in this regard.  Is this possible in the configuration you describe?  Also, is it viable or beneficial to put LL in Bridge mode (NAT off) and have UL do NAT?

[drgeoff]

Thank you drgeoff.

Thanks for the feedback as well as the warnings.  Thanks as well for your patience as I'm just a home IT experimenter.

I would like to use the "Gaming Router" as VPN server as LL is incapable in this regard.  Is this possible in the configuration you describe?  Also, is it viable or beneficial to put LL in Bridge mode (NAT off) and have UL do NAT?

If you put an internet facing router in bridge mode (no NAT) you can only connect one device to its LAN side. To have UL do the NAT you could not have the OBi and the Gaming router connected to the LL router.  You would either need an ethernet cable between OBi and the Gaming router or get an OBiWIFI or OBiWIFI5G to connect the OBi202 by Wi-Fi to UL or AP.  Then you have the question of how well that Wi-Fi link will work in your specific environment.

I'm not an expert on VPNs but I do have a L2TP/IPSec VPN server running on a NAS on a VM on a machine on my LAN.  That means it is not essential that a VPN server be in the NAT router.  But I don't know if your UL VPN server can work like that.

[OzarkEdge]

Hi,

A bit of background ...we've been aware of Obihai VOIP for a while, but our home internet was not able to support VOIP reliably.  However, this summer fiber was brought into the neighborhood and within weeks we hooked up.  We have the 300 / 300 service and over wifi get 300+ / 250+ reliably.  We settled on an Obi202 because we'd like to be able to use our fax machine in addition to phone.  Also, it would be great if we can use the existing phone wiring that terminates in the junction box mounted next to the fiber gateway (ONT).

I'm thinking about a set-up such as the following and would greatly appreciate input from the great experts in this very helpful forum!  By the way, LL = Basement and UL = Upper Level.


                                ------------- phone 1
   Phone Junction Box ------------- phone 2
              (LL)            ------------- fax
                 |
                 |
             Obi202
               (LL)
                 |
                 |
ONT --- Old Router --- Decent Gaming Router ----------- Router 2 as AP
(LL)         (LL)             (UL) used for wifi                       (UL2) to extend wifi


Would I configure both Routers in Routing mode?  Would I configure the Obi202 in Bridge mode?

Or, is there a better way to set things up and configure the various components in order to take advantage of the phone junction box and wiring throughout the home?  Here's what is available:

o  Obi202 that arrived 2 days ago!  Already working with GV.

o  Actiontec T2200H (Old Router in diagram) - wifi is terrible, only 1 band, etc. but it is Gigbit.  Was the Tel Co's standard issue modem / router.

o  Asus AC2900 - (Gaming Router in diagram) - dual core, Gigabit, dual band AC.

o  Asus RT66U - (Router 2 in diagram) - also Gigabit, single core, 2 band, but only N.  Was the only router until we upgraded to the AC2900 in anticipation of hooking up to the fiber service.  Great routing and wifi.

Many thanks for your expertise and guidance!

If you now have fiber to the house, can you retire the old Actiontec T2200H xDSL Wireless-N hardware?

I would make the new Asus RT-AC2900 hardware your (only) site router.  It supports AiMesh and has hardware encryption for best VPN performance.  Disable WAN\SIP Passthrough in case it messes with your VoIP traffic.  See https://www.snbforums.com/threads/official-release-aimesh-firmware-v3-0-0-4-384-20308-for-all-supported-products.44375/page-14#post-381537 for configuration notes.

I would put the OBi in Bridge Mode so it's just a 100 Mbps switch on your LAN, and connect its Internet jack to the router LAN.

Disconnect ALL sources from the house telephone wiring before connecting the OBi.  The OBi Phone1 jack = Line1 and Line2 (L1+L2).  Use a 2-pair, 4-conductor cord to connect both lines to the house wiring... to a wall plate jack wired for both lines.  Or wire it in at the junction box.  Leave any junction box Earth Ground connection in place.

Wire a duplex wall plate top jack for Line1 and Line2 (L1+L2); wire the bottom jack for Line2 as L1 (splitter configuration like the OBi202).  The OBi Phone1 could feed the top jack; the fax machine could connect to the bottom jack or to Phone2 on the OBi.  Typically, Line1 is the red, green (blue, blue/white) pair.  Line2 is the yellow, black (orange, orange/white) pair.

The OBi is rated REN 5.  The sum of the connected phones RENs should not exceed 5.  This is to prevent too many ringing phones from overloading the OBi output circuit.  Consider turning OFF unnecessary phone ringers.

The Asus RT-N66U is also old Wireless-N hardware.  You can use it as an n-only WiFi repeater, but I would retire it and add a new RT-AC86U (AC2900) as a wired/wireless AiMesh node to the site router to finish your network upgrade.  If you do this, make the new 86U your site router.  The OBi can also be connected to the node LAN and will perform well over an AiMesh wireless backhaul.

Finally, if the site router and OBi are located together, I would put them on a UPS for secure power.  Ideally, locate both near your office/admin work space for convenient management... the router WAN Ethernet cable can be very long, if that helps, and the OBi can feed the house wiring from any wall plate.  One concern if you want guest WiFi isolated from your LAN/WLANs... guest WLANs only broadcast from the AiMesh router for now, not from the node.

Prove OBi service is working first before connecting to the house wiring, since you can't be sure what's going on inside your walls and wall plates.

Merry Christmas!

OE

[drgeoff]

I would put the OBi in Bridge Mode so it's just a 100 Mbps switch on your LAN, and connect its Internet jack to the router LAN.

Will make absolutely no difference to the VoIP aspects and VoIP performance of the OBi202.

[OzarkEdge]

I would put the OBi in Bridge Mode so it's just a 100 Mbps switch on your LAN, and connect its Internet jack to the router LAN.

Will make absolutely no difference to the VoIP aspects and VoIP performance of the OBi202.

You already said this above.

OE

[drgeoff]

I would put the OBi in Bridge Mode so it's just a 100 Mbps switch on your LAN, and connect its Internet jack to the router LAN.

Will make absolutely no difference to the VoIP aspects and VoIP performance of the OBi202.

You already said this above.

OE

So was your suggestion to put the OBi202 into bridge mode because you disagree that it makes no difference or because you want to put the OP to unnecessary effort?

[SteveInWA]

Geoff's comment about using multiple routers is the most important issue here (aside from avoiding the dum-dum error of connecting the OBi to premises phone wiring, if that wiring is still connected to service external to the premises).  Your proposed solution is overly and needlessly complex.  Don't use multiple routers, and don't use routers as switches.

                 
ONT Ethernet out-->New/main high-performance router
                                    |
                                    |
                              Premises LAN wiring, using as many Gigabit Ethernet switches as needed
                                    |
                                    |__>Devices (PCs, iOT, etc.)
                                    |
                                    |__>WiFi extender (or, buy a mesh router as the main router and add WiFi APs)
                                    |
                                    |__>OBi 202 LAN port (do not use the OBi as a router)
                                             |
                                             |__>OBi PHONE 1 port (RJ-14, two-line jack)-->premises 2-pair/4-conductor jack

The OBi 202 has two physical (electrical circuit) telephone line outputs.  Line 1 and Line 2 are hardwired to the PHONE 1 jack in a standard RJ-14 configuration.  Use a 4-conductor phone cord to attach this to your premises wiring (assuming that wiring has the necessary multiple pairs of conductors).

What you do with those two OBi lines is a separate discussion (i.e. service providers, phone vs. fax, etc).

[OzarkEdge]

I would put the OBi in Bridge Mode so it's just a 100 Mbps switch on your LAN, and connect its Internet jack to the router LAN.

Will make absolutely no difference to the VoIP aspects and VoIP performance of the OBi202.

You already said this above.

OE

So was your suggestion to put the OBi202 into bridge mode because you disagree that it makes no difference or because you want to put the OP to unnecessary effort?

I merely recommended what I would do.  I would not leave an unused, un-configured router with a max link rate of 30 Mbps connected to my network.  Switching one setting from Router to Bridge Mode makes the OBi a 3-port switch (1-port internal) with a max link rate of 100 Mbps.  I think Bridge Mode is more tidy, more capable, more useful, and less confusing later on when all is forgotten.

OE

[SnowLion]

Many thanks to all for the alerts and the great guidance.

The comments about 'overly complex' and the follow on solutions became more obvious as a result of the 'ah ha' moment provided by OE's suggestion:

"Wire a duplex wall plate top jack for Line1 and Line2 (L1+L2); wire the bottom jack for Line2 as L1 (splitter configuration like the OBi202).  The OBi Phone1 could feed the top jack; the fax machine could connect to the bottom jack or to Phone2 on the OBi."

This suggestion clarified that it was possible to feed the house phone lines via any jack in the house assuming the line is wired appropriately from jack to tel. junction box.

As for disconnecting the source from the house telephone wiring - I presume this is as simple as unplugging the single cord that the ISP ran from the ONT to the tel. junction box installed when they switched us over from copper to fiber.  Please let me know if this assumption is likely to be faulty.

As for REN 5 - many thanks for this suggestion.  I assume the fax is drawing zero or essentially zero power from the phone line as it has its own power brick?  Originally I was thinking it would be necessary to disconnect extra phones, but from your suggestion it seems we can simply turn off the ringers.  If I'm understanding correctly, this would be a great plus.

Again, many thanks to all!  Anyone have questions about genetics, genomics, or statistics so I may 'pay it forward!"

Merry Christmas and / or Happy Holidays!

[SteveInWA]

I actually explained how the OBi 202's PHONE 1 jack is wired.  All you have to do is to use that knowledge to connect the two pairs of conductors to your premises wiring, whichever way is easiest -- either via a wall jack or via a punch-down junction block.  The main concept to understand is that contemporary premises telephone wiring is done with multi-conductor (usually Cat-5 or Cat-6) cable, with line 1 being blue & blue/white stripe, and line 2 being orange & orange/white stripe, and line 3 being green & green/white stripe.

I never assume anything about people's prior telephone service connections, since people often have had several different providers mess with that wiring.  IF, and only if, whoever installed FiOS also disconnected whatever was in use before that (copper POTS or cable modem), then simply unplug the telephone jack from the ONT.  If you have any doubt, use a voltmeter to measure across the line pairs.  You should see zero volts before connecting the OBi.

The blah-blah-blah from OzarkEdge about routers is irrelevant, as is his REN comment.  No modern telephone equipment uses more than a fraction of a REN.  REN was only important for ancient mechanical-bell ringer phones.  The best practice for today's residential WAN/LAN installation is as I described it in my previous post.  If you want to create a reliable and high performance system, with the least amount of complexity and ongoing maintenance of firmware, then use only one router, and use gigabit switches for the rest of the hardwired connections.  WiFi extenders will work, but the better solution is a mesh router system, which avoids having different access point SSIDs and is more robust.

[OzarkEdge]

Many thanks to all for the alerts and the great guidance.

The comments about 'overly complex' and the follow on solutions became more obvious as a result of the 'ah ha' moment provided by OE's suggestion:

"Wire a duplex wall plate top jack for Line1 and Line2 (L1+L2); wire the bottom jack for Line2 as L1 (splitter configuration like the OBi202).  The OBi Phone1 could feed the top jack; the fax machine could connect to the bottom jack or to Phone2 on the OBi."

This suggestion clarified that it was possible to feed the house phone lines via any jack in the house assuming the line is wired appropriately from jack to tel. junction box.

As for disconnecting the source from the house telephone wiring - I presume this is as simple as unplugging the single cord that the ISP ran from the ONT to the tel. junction box installed when they switched us over from copper to fiber.  Please let me know if this assumption is likely to be faulty.

As for REN 5 - many thanks for this suggestion.  I assume the fax is drawing zero or essentially zero power from the phone line as it has its own power brick?  Originally I was thinking it would be necessary to disconnect extra phones, but from your suggestion it seems we can simply turn off the ringers.  If I'm understanding correctly, this would be a great plus.

Again, many thanks to all!  Anyone have questions about genetics, genomics, or statistics so I may 'pay it forward!"

Merry Christmas and / or Happy Holidays!

Regarding isolating your house tel wiring from all other sources, it may be as simple as you noted.  Just investigate the junction box and be sure any source wiring such as a tel cable coming in from outside is fully disconnected from the house tel wiring.

The REN 5 advice is a valid consideration.  The OBi is rated REN 5 and phones are also rated.  Given you intend to feed your house wiring so that you can connect multiple phones, and without knowing anything about those phones, it's worth mentioning for your consideration.

OE