Obi110 & 2Wire HGV 3801 - Will Obi110 work on a subnet?

[Spiderbird]

Hi there,

I have a Obi110 hooked via ethernet into a 2Wire HGV 3801 router, and it works perfectly, no problems. But, I'm getting that dreaded 'router behind router' message from the 2Wire, and unless I put the Obi110 in a DMZ area (which I'm not going to), all the nodes in my home network won't get a DHCP address from the 2Wire until the problem is resolved.

SO, I've been thinking about a couple of options:
- Putting the Obi110 on a subnet (i.e. setting a static IP for the Obi110 as 192.168.2.1), keeping the subnet mask and gateway the same (note: this worked previously for a Linksys WRT54GL router when I was attempting to flood the whole house with wireless signal).
- Trying port forwarding as some have suggested here, but I don't think that's going to resolve the issue.

Can anyone give some perspective on the above?

[Shale]

You are plugging a router into the 3801 and plugging the OBi110 into the router.

I doubt that the message has anything to do with the OBi. That is to say, I suspect you would get that message even if just a couple computers were plugged in.  In any case, what the 2wire is asking you to do is to turn off DHCP in the router, so that the DHCP will be handled by the 3801. So look into the documentation or web pages for your router to find how to do that.

It is not necessary, but in the 3801 I would then Settings > LAN > IP Address Allocation and change the Address Assignment to a private address from the drop down list. The reason I suggest that is that you will not have to worry if the address is in the right range. Maybe pick an address that ends in 110 if that is one of the choices. Knowing this address will make it easier to access the built-in web page.

[Spiderbird]

Hi Shale!  Thanks for responding.

To clarify, the Obi110 is connected to the 2Wire directly.  There is no router in-between the two.  It's connected via ethernet cable from the back of the Obi110 to an available LAN port on the back of the 2Wire HGV 3801 router.

And the 'router behind router' message specifically calls out the Obi110 it's having a conflict with, and asks to put it into DMZ mode with a public IP shared by the 2Wire HGV 3801.

I also have access to the Obi110's administration page via a fixed IP address I assigned for the Obi110 on the 2Wire (in my case, 192.168.1.64).  I can access the admin page no problem, and can see all related administrative screens.  I lose that capability when the Obi110 is placed into DMZ mode.

So, back to my original question... will the Obi110 still work if is placed on a subnet such as 192.168.2.1, thereby getting around the 'router behind router' 2Wire conflict but still allowing for Obi110 dial in/out capability?

Thanks in advance for any replies!

[Shale]

For those who might know what is causing the problem, the 3801HGV's default address is 192.168.1.254 with netmask 255.255.255.0.

I am thinking that the 192.168.1.64 address that OP is used as a static address may be interfering with an already used address. 192.168.1.64 may be the start of the range. I have a 3801HGV, but I have changed my default. I would look at the 3801HGV Settings > LAN > IP Address Allocation to see how addresses are currently allocated.

[Spiderbird]

Hi Shale,

Thanks again for replying.  I've attached a couple of small screenshots.  One of them shows the IP address allocation for the 2Wire, and the fixed IP address of the Obi110 that I assigned on the 2Wire side.  I also uploaded the warning dialog boxes before/after putting the Obi110 in DMZ mode (and the verification that it is the Obi that's causing the conflict)

edit - Looks like the upload folder is full! - You can find the images here on this imgur album:
http://imgur.com/a/04Ajk#0

And there isn't another address that's using the 192.168.1.64 address on the 2Wire.

Update:  A friend of mine suggested putting the Obi110 into bridge mode.  Does that sound familiar or a possibility?

[Shale]

Bridge mode is something you would do to a modem or a router. You can't really do that with the 3801.

You might consider changing Settings > Lan > DHCP to

• Configure manually
     

Router Address    192.168.1.254
Subnet Mask    255.255.255.0
First DHCP Address    192.168.1.65
Last DHCP Address    192.168.1.253

That will ensure there is not a conflict with the DHCP range and the static address that you chose. I understand that it does not appear to be a reason to think that this is causing the problem, but I am not sure. It seems worth a try, and easier than changing the static address for the OBi.

[giqcass]

I'm not very familiar with the 2wire devices so I won't comment on that.  I can say that you shouldn't have a problem with an Obi on a subnet.  I have done that.  I have also put my PAP2na on a subnet.  I did not need to set up port forwarding of any kind.  You will want a stun server set up if you use sip.  Having said that I prefer to keep VOIP devices on the main subnet for reliability.

AFAIK.. Bridge mode only applies to the OBi202 or OBI302 which have built in routing capability.

Shale is right about using a static address outside of your DHCP range.  That might not be your problem right now but it will eventually get you.

One thing I am curious about.  You were talking about putting the OBi on it's own subnet.  I don't think that will work unless it's behind a router on the other subnet. 

[Spiderbird]

Hi Shale and Giqcass,

Thanks for your replies!  I have some updates as I've tried the configs you suggested.

I went in and tried two static ip changes.  The first time, I changed the Obi110 to a static IP assignment outside the DHCP range of the 2Wire.  After submitting changes, the 2Wire still recognizes it as a router behind a router, but in a non-DHCP managed IP assignment.  That message came up again when I attempted to change the DHCP IP range on the 2Wire (it still recognized the static IP of the Obi and said no way hosay).

Next, I tried putting the Obi110 on a subnet address (192.168.2.1) and it went dark.  Could not access it from ObiTalk, the 2Wire, or a direct ethernet connection (crossover or regular).   I performed the factory reset instructions on the Obihai site, got it back up and running, tested calls, and all is well.

In summary:
- The Obi110 did not like being put on a subnet.  I had to factory reset/reconfigure to get it to work.
- The static IP option outside the DHCP range did not work either.  The 2Wire still recognized it as a router behind a router.

Any other ideas?  I think I may just have to put it in a DMZ zone to make it play nice with the 2Wire.
Btw, thanks for all your help so far.

- Spider

[Shale]

I don't know what the problem is. My OBi202 works fine behind my 3801 with no DMZ etc.

[carl]

I have 2W 3600 and Obi (202 or 100) only works if in DMZ. For the same reason i cannot use any soft phones.

[Spiderbird]

Hi Shale and Carl,

Yah, it's a bit weird.  I'll put it on a DMZ for now to get my home network up.

That gives me an idea. I originally was going to hook up a e1200 linksys n-router for better wireless speeds, and I'm thinking I could potentially do this:

2Wire (Wireless Off, DHCP Off, NAT off) -> e1200 Linksys (Static IP, Wireless On, DHCP, NAT enabled) -> Obi110 and rest of home network hooked in

Since I don't have TV or phone service and just internet, I don't have any DVR's to worry about, and the above config may slide.  Do you think that would work?

Note: For reference, I did the Googles and found a related thread that turns the 2Wire into a bridge (though puts it in DMZ plus mode):
»forums.att.com/t5/Residential-Ga···755#M182

What do you two think?

[carl]

2Wire (Wireless Off, DHCP Off, NAT off) -> e1200 Linksys (Static IP, Wireless On, DHCP, NAT enabled) -> Obi110 and rest of home network hooked in

Sure . My impression I got from searching forums that the best way to handle u verse  2 wire when it causes problems is simply use it as a pass through and get a decent router behind it. That, off course, makes it to a useless space heater( mine sucks 51 W) but that's the price . 
I , for my part , at least for the time being, chose to keep my Obi in DMZ and live with the fact that i cannot use soft phones or a second obi. Cheap. but not ideal solution.

[Spiderbird]

Sure . My impression I got from searching forums that the best way to handle u verse  2 wire when it causes problems is simply use it as a pass through and get a decent router behind it. That, off course, makes it to a useless space heater( mine sucks 51 W) but that's the price . 
I , for my part , at least for the time being, chose to keep my Obi in DMZ and live with the fact that i cannot use soft phones or a second obi. Cheap. but not ideal solution.

Funniest thing.. I put my Obi110 in DMZPlus mode, and all functionality (in/outbound calling) does not work.  I just put it back behind the firewall with a DHCP address but 'router behind router' message turned off, and it works fine. Bordering on the bizarre...

So I'll go the route of putting the 2Wire into bridge mode with the e1200 being the proper router. The e1200 however hasn't been playing nice (and getting a DHCP address when connecting to the 2Wire), but we'll hammer it out.

Thanks for the response carl!

[Shale]

So I'll go the route of putting the 2Wire into bridge mode with the e1200 being the proper router. The e1200 however hasn't been playing nice (and getting a DHCP address when connecting to the 2Wire), but we'll hammer it out.

If you figure out how to put a 2Wire 3801HGV into bridge mode, there will be a lot of people who will want to know how to do that.

[Spiderbird]

You'll never guess what happened...  I found out what the *real* problem was (and arguably, it could be me).

It was actually two things:

• The firmware on the e1200 wasn't updated.  It was using an older firmware version that had a conflict with proprietary routers like the 2Wire. 
• The CAT5 wire going from the 2Wire to the home network node was faulty.

Once I updated the e1200 and replaced the CAT5, I did the easiest option of everything I've been trying.  I opted to make both the e1200 and the WRT54GL that I had as access points, and uncheck the 'router behind router' warning on the 2wire.

Everything is lighting up like a green and yellow Christmas tree.   Nodes are active, and even the Blu-Ray players are now wired in. 

SO after all of that, it was a firmware upgrade and a faulty cable that were the main culprits.  Geez.
Hope it was entertaining for you as it was frustrating for me (and irritating for my better half).

- Spider