Voices choppy in upstream direction

[BobN54]

I'm using an OBi200 with the OBiWiFi adapter connected to a shared WiFi hotspot at an Assisted Living Facility; thus I have no control over the WiFi or router setup. Signal strength is good, and speed test indicates 13.5 mbps down/1.5 mbps up. Voices are choppy upstream (outbound) through either  GV or voip.ms; no problem downstream.  Are there any settings on the OBi I could tinker with to solve this issue? I realize my options may be limited. 

[drgeoff]

1.5 Mbit/s should be more than enough not to induce chopping.  But how are you measuring that?  What is the actual rate the Obi is getting?

[cluckercreek]

Are you on Satellite? If so, then there is nothing you can do for this due to the latency.

[BobN54]

1.5 Mbit/s should be more than enough not to induce chopping.  But how are you measuring that?  What is the actual rate the Obi is getting?

I used a speedtest site to get the up/down speeds. How can I go about determining the actual rate the Obi is getting?

The ISP appears to be Verizon Business DSL, which is consistent with the 13 down/ 1.5 up in the speedtest.

[ianobi]

I'm using an OBi200 with the OBiWiFi adapter connected to a shared WiFi hotspot at an Assisted Living Facility

The question here may be how many people are using the 1.5 Mbit/s upstream at any one time. At busy times the bandwidth actually available to the OBi may be very limited for a few seconds at a time, therefore voice sounds "choppy". Is it possible to compare busy times with quiet times when others are unlikely to be using their computers?

If it only happens at busy times, then it may be worth looking at forcing the OBi to use a CODEC that uses a narrower bandwidth. For example you may experiment with the voip.ms route by forcing the OBi to use the G729 CODEC. Dial *4729 (you will get dial tone after the 9), then dial whatever you normally dial for a voip.ms call. This should force the OBi to use the G729 CODEC, which will use less bandwidth.

The above will not work with GV as I don't think it offers G729 in its choice of CODECS. However, if the G729 works with voip.ms, then we can make some more permanent changes to CODECs for both GV and voip.ms.

[BigJim_McD]

1.5 Mbit/s should be more than enough not to induce chopping.  But how are you measuring that?  What is the actual rate the Obi is getting?

I used a speedtest site to get the up/down speeds. How can I go about determining the actual rate the Obi is getting?

The ISP appears to be Verizon Business DSL, which is consistent with the 13 down/ 1.5 up in the speedtest.

BobN54,  I suggest that you run a test using the:  "8x8 VoIP Test" at:  http://voiptest.8x8.com/voip.php?  that makes the following claims.

"This Online Testing Utility will open a socket-connection to your browser and pass simulated VoIP Traffic to your home/office computer. This test measures the quality and performance of your Internet connection between your home/office network and the 8x8 servers."

You can select the "Codec" type to test, either G.711 (90 Kbps) or G.729 (30 Kbps).  You will be given a "Connection Summary" that includes "Jitter" and "Packet Loss" in addition to download and upload speed.

[SteveInWA]

Note that 8x8 is using Visualware's testing system.  I suggest going directly to Visualware's website to run the test, which will allow you to select different endpoints around the country (or world, for that matter), to run a variety of tests.  This will give you a more balanced view of performance from your home or office.

http://myspeed.visualware.com/index.php

Also:  to understand how well (or poorly) your connection is performing for VoIP, don't run this test over WiFi, unless you want to see how poorly VoIP actually performs on WiFi vs. Ethernet.   You'll see, for example, that the G.711 PCM CODEC used by GV and most other VoIP providers by default, was developed decades before WiFi, and it is quite intolerant of the drop-outs and latency introduced over WiFi.

A MOS lower than 4.0 is an indication that you will have audible problems with VoIP calling.

[BigJim_McD]

Note that 8x8 is using Visualware's testing system.  I suggest going directly to Visualware's website to run the test, which will allow you to select different endpoints around the country (or world, for that matter), to run a variety of tests.  This will give you a more balanced view of performance from your home or office.

http://myspeed.visualware.com/index.php

SteveInWA,  Thanks for pointing out that 8x8 is using Visualware's testing system, I'll add Visualware to my list of speed test sites.

[SteveInWA]

And, speaking of speed test sites, note that, for the purposes of troubleshooting VoIP issues, this is the only valid and meaningful test site.  The typical speed test sites (like Ookla) are only useful for non-VoIP use, as they don't take into consideration the full impact of jitter, latency and dropouts that are more important to high-quality VoIP, than raw speed or ping time.

The Visualware test uses its Java client to simulate and monitor an actual VoIP "call" on your PC, connecting to an endpoint of your choosing.

[BB88]

I am having this problem too. I tried connecting the OBi200 directly to the cable modem (to isolate problem with the router), but the broken voice is still there. I have the problem on both the Freephoneline.ca line and the GV line. The **9 222 222 2222 echo test does NOT have the problem.

My result from the visualware test:

VoIP test statistics
--------------------
Jitter: you --> server: 20.7 ms
Jitter: server --> you: 6.0 ms
Packet loss: you --> server: 0.0 %
Packet loss: server --> you: 0.0 %
Packet discards: 4.2 %
Packets out of order: 0.0 %
Estimated MOS score: 3.7

Is the result bad, or is there any other possible problem?

[SteveInWA]

That's a horrible MOS.  You'll need to contact your internet service provider to diagnose the problem.

[BB88]

That's a horrible MOS.  You'll need to contact your internet service provider to diagnose the problem.

What is considered a good/bad MOS?

My line is good today without the broken voice issue, and the test result is:
Jitter: you --> server: 2.5 ms
Jitter: server --> you: 3.4 ms
Packet loss: you --> server: 0.0 %
Packet loss: server --> you: 0.0 %
Packet discards: 0.0 %
Packets out of order: 0.0 %
Estimated MOS score: 4.2

[azrobert]

What is considered a good/bad MOS?

Mean opinion score (MOS)

MOS   Quality   Impairment
5   Excellent    Imperceptible
4   Good          Perceptible but not annoying
3   Fair            Slightly annoying
2   Poor           Annoying
1   Bad            Very annoying

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_opinion_score

[BB88]

What is considered a good/bad MOS?

Mean opinion score (MOS)

MOS   Quality   Impairment
5   Excellent    Imperceptible
4   Good          Perceptible but not annoying
3   Fair            Slightly annoying
2   Poor           Annoying
1   Bad            Very annoying

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_opinion_score

Thanks. According to the wiki, 4.1 is the highest for G.711. Is 3.7 considered horrible?

[SteveInWA]

The Bell System originally had humans actually listen to telephone calls and rate the quality of the call.  That's why it was called the "Mean Opinion Score"...it was the average of all the judges' opinions.  Now, an algorithm is using the individual factors shown in the test result to synthesize what a panel of humans would assess.

4.2 is the theoretical maximum -- this test will never go above that number.  So, your recent test showed that all's well at this time.  Look at the difference in jitter numbers to see what contributed to the difference from the previous test.

Anything below 4.0 is going to be noticeably poor.  This could be caused by anything from your cable modem outward to the internet.  You could have some loose or corroded coaxial cable connectors outside your house, for example.  It's common at this time of year for water to get into cable companies' coaxial cables and connectors, causing degraded signal quality.  You'll have to do battle with your internet service provider to figure out the failure point.

Note that this has nothing to do with either your OBi or your VoIP service providers, since the test completely bypasses those things.

[jpar5]

I have Verizon FIOS and use their VOIP for my main phone line, and an Obi202 with Google Voice for a second free line.  My FIOS calls sound fine, but my Obi calls are choppy - cutting in and out to the point were it usually isn't usable.  My upstream Jitter reading is terrible - 46Ms and that seems to be the main problem in my testing.  Everything else tests out great.  Any idea why Verizon VoIP seems fine but Obi doesn't?  If my jitter is bad, shouldn't it be affecting both Voip lines?  My Fios router is old - doesn't even support wireless n on the wifi portion of it.  Think swapping it out could solve the problem??  Thanks for any help/ideas.

[SteveInWA]

I have Verizon FIOS and use their VOIP for my main phone line, and an Obi202 with Google Voice for a second free line.  My FIOS calls sound fine, but my Obi calls are choppy - cutting in and out to the point were it usually isn't usable.  My upstream Jitter reading is terrible - 46Ms and that seems to be the main problem in my testing.  Everything else tests out great.  Any idea why Verizon VoIP seems fine but Obi doesn't?  If my jitter is bad, shouldn't it be affecting both Voip lines?  My Fios router is old - doesn't even support wireless n on the wifi portion of it.  Think swapping it out could solve the problem??  Thanks for any help/ideas.

Regarding FiOS specifically, most FiOS installations, especially the early ones, don't use VoIP for their telephone service.  Instead, it is essentially "POTS over fiber" -- the Optical Network Terminal or ONT at your premises has circuitry that digitizes the analog voice from/to your home telephones into a PCM-encoded stream, and then it traverses your dedicated fiber channel to the Verizon central office over the bridged (not routed) link.  This results in extremely high-quality audio, and because it's not being routed in IP packets over the Internet, there are no jitter nor dropout problems.

By contrast, the OBi is using traditional packet-switched VoIP, and is at the mercy of your home network equipment, and anything else (cough torrents/streaming/Netflix cough) you might also be using.  The old FiOS routers do have QoS settings you can tweak, but frankly, if it's still a wireless-G router, you ought to upgrade it before wasting any time on it.

I'd suggest reading through the earlier posts in this thread, running the Java-based SIP VoIP simulator I linked earlier, and that will help you understand whether or not you've got a home network issue.  Aside from that, in my own experience with FiOS, if you call Verizon and complain, they may be happy to give you a brand new router for free (especially if you ask about renewing your service), or, you can simply buy your own new router if you are only using FiOS for internet and telephone service.  

The only reason that would require the use of their router might be if you are also using FiOS TV.  You can call and discuss this with them.  I've been using my own routers for years on FiOS.  As long as you keep their router (unplugged, in a box) for the times when they may tell you that you need to connect it for remote diagnostics, there is no need to use it for internet purposes.

[SteveInWA]

Oh, and just one more thing about FiOS:  the oldest FiOS ONTs eventually started failing.  Where I live, there was a mandatory program to replace all the original ONTs with newer ones (at no cost to the customer).  If you have a first-generation ONT, it might be going bad -- ask them about this issue.

[jpar5]

Awesome info about Verizon that I did not know.  Thanks so much.  I am using it for TV as well, so I think I'll ask for a replacement and see if that helps rather than replace with my own.  If not, maybe I'll ask about the ONT issue as well.  Thanks again.

[OzarkEdge]

Awesome info about Verizon that I did not know.  Thanks so much.  I am using it for TV as well, so I think I'll ask for a replacement and see if that helps rather than replace with my own.  If not, maybe I'll ask about the ONT issue as well.  Thanks again.

I've seen Verizon let the user keep their old end-of-life router.  One use for it is to use its coax connection to extend your LAN over coax via its MOCA bridge capability.  So, if you need its switch ports (or WiFi) at another location in your house that only has coax, you can put the old router there connected over coax to your new router via a MOCA bridge.  Google for instructions if you ever want to try it.

For example, you want a wired LAN connection for a TV location that only has coax... you can split the coax to the TV and to the old router and connect the TV Ethernet to the router switch.  Simple solution once you figure out how to configure the MOCA bridge.

OE