Multiple extensions on one call (like POTS)? Possibly FreePBX?

[kayrjay]

In our Utah home we have an OBI202 which is connected to a Panasonic PBX (and both 202 ports go into the PBX, so we can have two separate active calls).  Any physical, hard-wired phone in the house can make a call or answer an incoming call, and multiple people can be on the same call (just by picking up the handset).  This is not a 3-way call or a conference call.   It's one call, with multiple people on the line at the same time.

In our California home, we have multiple OBI1062s (which are great ... ATAs themselves, connected by WiFi, and allow extension-to-extension (intercom) calling).   No PBX, though.  And two 1062s can't be on the same call at the same time.  (I stupidly assumed they would be able to do so, since they are called "extensions".)

We use CallCentric, and the OBI202 and the 1062s are all registered with the same CallCentric account at SP1.   I have set up simultaneous ringing, so the Utah phones and the California phones all ring at once.  So far, so good.

Now the problem  ... My wife and I might both be in California or one in each location.   I need to be able to have multiple people on a call at the same time.   (It's obviously not a problem if we're both in Utah, since the Panasonic system allows our phones to act like intercoms and permit multiple people on the same call.)

If I pick up the call in Utah, she'd like to be able to pick up one of the 1062s in California (even if it has stopped ringing). Same if she picks up in California, I'd like to be able to join the call in Utah.   Or, if we're both in California, we'd like to be able to be on the same call at the same time, both of us on 1062s.

This is like the "old days", when all your phones in the house were all hard-wired to TPC (the phone company), and multiple people could be on the line at the same time.

I spoke to CallCentric and PhonePower, and they can't help.  CallCentric's response was "try FreePBX" (which I gather is like a PBX that sits in the cloud).   I'm hoping it may provide the features I want ... and I'm hoping some of you have some experience and can give me advice.

I am a techie, but must admit I find all this telephone terminology quite confusing.  It's been a challenge just to get things working as they are now.  Please let me know your thoughts!

[drgeoff]

I've been using SIP, Linksys/Sipura ATA, OBi ATAs, OBi phone, FreePBX and 3CX since 1999 and can't think of a way to achieve what you ask. SIP just does not work like analogue phones do. Even analogue phones plus POTS won't give you the ability pick up a handset in California and join an existing call that has been answered in Utah.

FreePBX is just Asterisk plus a GUI to make it easier to configure and manage. (Note that I wrote 'easier', not 'easy'!). Asterisk/FreePBX/Issabel/Wazo/3CX etc can be cloud based or run on local hardware. You can even run a decent small Asterisk-based  PBX on a RaspberryPi.

Asterisk and its derivatives are very flexible and can do a lot but I think won't do everything you want without manual intervention such as dialling feature codes.

However I don't claim to be the font of all knowledge on this. Anyone else is welcome to chime in.

[kayrjay]

Thanks for your answer, DrGeoff.  This is surprising and more than a bit disappointing.   I can perhaps see how having each 1062 acting as an ATA would not be able to do this.  But it would seem that a VOIP provider could support this feature.  "It's all software after all" (isn't it?). 

Surely other people have a similar need.  It seems an obvious requirement for any large house or small business.  (Having two geographic locations is just an added wrinkle, that doesn't change the basic requirement.)

With IP-based phones, why would you want a PBX (onsite hardware or cloud) to do something that should be possible/easy based on some configuration setting at the VOIP provider?  I could perhaps live with a feature code, like *9999 to "join existing call".

I hope someone else can chime in with a solution.   

Thanks again.

[SteveInWA]

I think the issue is that you are accustomed to the analog telephone paradigm, whereby you have a pair of wires carrying the analog electrical signal throughout the house, and any telephone set can "tap into" that wire pair to electrically join a call.

Per your comment, the term "extension", as used by Callcentric, doesn't refer to a telephone instrument; it refers to a separate SIP registration to their SIP server.  As you found, when you set it up, you had to type in separate SIP usernames and passwords for each extension (17771234567101, -102, -103, etc.).  Those separate SIP registrations act independently from each other.   When one extension is on a call, it has no relationship to the other extensions.  You might as well be describing two different cell phones making two different calls.  You can conference them together, but that's it.

What you are expecting, is a "central office" or PBX solution that would allow the PBX to act as a conference bridge.  It's very likely that one of the business-class cloud VoIP service providers might have this feature, but I haven't looked lately.  If you're willing to spend the money, you can look into DialPad and Ringcentral, for example.  Otherwise, you'd be looking at an enterprise-class solution from Avaya, Cisco or Microsoft.

[kayrjay]

As I feared.   Ok, thanks much!

[azrobert]

You can have an OBi1062 barge into an active call on the OBi202. You need to purchase an OBiLine adapter for the OBi202. This technique won't work from the OBi202 to the 1062. You would use a speed dial number on the 1062 to call the 202 and be automatically connected to the call.

If you're interested, I'll show you how.

[kayrjay]

The best news I've had in two days of searching!  Please advise ...

[azrobert]

You might be able to accomplish this with Freepbx/Asterisk, but I don't know how. You might be able to get help on the dslreports forum.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/voip

I do know the old Asterisk Google Voice callback method bridges an inbound call with an outbound call. Below are the custom definitions for the GV callback. gvcall is the script that initiates the callback. When the callback arrives it is bridged to the outbound call.

Code Select Expand

[custom-gv-trunk]
exten => _NXXNXXXXXX,1,Answer()
exten => _NXXNXXXXXX,n,System(php /var/lib/asterisk/bin/gvcall.php ${EXTEN} Call &)
exten => _NXXNXXXXXX,n,Set(DB(gv_dialout/channel)=${CHANNEL})
exten => _NXXNXXXXXX,n,Playtones(ring)
exten => _NXXNXXXXXX,n,Wait(4)
exten => _NXXNXXXXXX,n,Playtones(ring)
exten => _NXXNXXXXXX,n,Wait(16)
exten => _NXXNXXXXXX,n,Noop(Never received callback from Google Voice on channel ${DB_DELETE(gv_dialout/channel)} – exiting)
exten => h,1,GotoIf($["${CHANNEL(state)}" = "Ring"]?:bridged)
exten => h,n,Noop(Hangup on channel ${DB_DELETE(gv_dialout/channel)})
exten => h,n,System(php /var/lib/asterisk/bin/gvcall.php ${EXTEN} Cancel &)
exten => h,n,Hangup()
exten => h,n(bridged),Noop(The channel has been bridged successfully)

[custom-gv-inbound]
exten => s,1,NoCDR()
exten => s,n,Bridge(${DB_DELETE(gv_dialout/channel)})

The solution to my above post will be coming soon.

[azrobert]

This solution is based on the Barge-In feature of the OBi202. A phone port can call the other phone port by dialing "#". If the target phone port is on an active call, you will barge into the call.

See page 23 of the admin guide:
http://www.obihai.com/docs/OBiDeviceAdminGuide.pdf

Install an OBiLine adapter on the OBi202
Connect phone port#2 to the Line port with a standard phone cord.

Change the OBi202 OBiTalk inbound route:
Voice Services -> OBiTalk Service -> InboundCallRoute:
{>#:li},{ph}

You can keep any code in the inbound route that will route a call to the Auto Attendant.

Define a speed dial on the OBi1062:
pp(123456789*#)

Change 123456789 to the OBi Number of the OBi202

Dial the speed dial number
The call will be routed over the OBiTalk network to the OBi202
The OBiTalk inbound route will send the "#" out the Line port
The call will be looped to Phone Port#2 and "#" will be dialed, calling Phone Port#1.

You can have the Line port and another phone connected to Phone Port#2, but the above won't work if Phone Port#2 is on an active call.

DISCLAIMER: I don't own an OBi202, so I couldn't test your setup. I have an OBi110 and routed an inbound call out the Line, looped it to the Phone port and then automatically completed a call out SP1. Since I couldn't test your scenario, proceed at your own risk.

[kayrjay]

Thank you again, azrobert.  You're worth your weight in gold!  Your explanations and step by step instructions are the most clear of any I've seen on any topic relating to VOIP!

I have read up on this, and it seems it meets (most of) my requirements.   Barging is indeed what I want.

I found the OBILine adapter on the OBIHAI site, https://www.obitalk.com/info/products/obiline, but Amazon doesn't have it (though other non-name-brand providers apparently do).

From what I can tell, its primary purpose is to provide POTS access to the OBI202.   I don't have any POTS in Utah anymore.  Don't want it either!  Can I do what you outline below without POTS?  I suppose I could get a single line from the phone company for this purpose, but that kinda sucks.   

You say that I "can have the Line port and another phone connected to Phone Port#2".   It would actually be the second line from the PBX.  I don't know quite what you mean to connect both. Do I use one of those simple RJ11 splitters?

You also say it "won't work if Phone Port#2 is on an active call" when I have a second phone connected to it.   That's ok.

And one last question .... we now have three 1062s in California.   Can I barge from one to another (like when I'm upstairs and the wife is downstairs)?

Thank you!

[drgeoff]

You have not understood azrobert's post at all.

1. You do NOT require a POTS line. You DO require an OBiLINE.

2. You can only barge in to a call that has been answered (or initiated) on a phone plugged in to an OBi202.

3. The purpose of the OBiLINE is to enable a barge in from one phone port on the 202 to the call in progress on the other phone port on that 202. The RJ11 port on the OBiLINE emulates an analogue phone and can thus be wired into a phone port on the 202. The barging in VoIP call from afar is directed to the OBiLINE and dials a # into the phone port.

There is no barge into the OBi10x2 phones. (Even on the same LAN.)

[kayrjay]

Got it thanks

[kayrjay]

 I can't seem to find the OBi line adapter anywhere. One site I found https://www.voipsupply.com/obihai-obiline says that the OBi line adapter been discontinued and that the replacement
is an OBi212. However, I can't find the 212 anywhere either.   And, I don't
know if the OBi212 will Do what the line adapter would do as described here.

Any help would be appreciated!

[azrobert]

I did some more testing and the Line Port doesn't 100% emulate an analog phone. Looping the Line Port to the Phone Port seems to work when there isn't another phone connected to the Phone Port using a splitter.  It also works when another phone is on-hook and connected via a splitter. When the Phone connected to the splitter is on an active call, the call out the Line Port will fail. When the looped Line Port is on an active call and the phone connected to the splitter is taken off-hook, the outbound audio from the Line Port is not understandable (very low and distorted).  You might want to reconsider this solution if you need a phone connected to Phone Port#2.

Did you read the disclaimer in my previous post? All my testing was done on an OBi110 which only has one phone port, so I couldn't test the barge-in part. I only made an outbound call with the looped line port, so I'm assuming calling the 1st phone port on an OBi202 will successfully barge-in. 

[drgeoff]

I can't seem to find the OBi line adapter anywhere. One site I found https://www.voipsupply.com/obihai-obiline says that the OBi line adapter been discontinued and that the replacement
is an OBi212. However, I can't find the 212 anywhere either.   And, I don't
know if the OBi212 will Do what the line adapter would do as described here.

Any help would be appreciated!

There has been neither an official announcement by Obihai nor any rumours of the discontinuation of OBiLINE or the introduction of a new OBi212 ATA.  However https://www.voipsupply.com/obihai-obi212-1-fxs-1-fxo-adapter shows a shipping date in October this year and the specs indicate that it has one FXS port and one FXO port, ie it is the replacement for the End-of-Lifed Obi110.  More at https://fccid.io/2ADXF-OBI212.

[kayrjay]

Thanks drgeoff and azrobert.   I have read and believe I understand your posts.   Right at the moment, it doesn't look like the OBILine adapter will do what I need.  I'll just have to wait till October to see what the OBI212 (if there is one) can do.   I will try to reach out to OBIHAI directly and see what they say.

Thanks again.

[drgeoff]

Thanks drgeoff and azrobert.   I have read and believe I understand your posts.   Right at the moment, it doesn't look like the OBILine adapter will do what I need.  I'll just have to wait till October to see what the OBI212 (if there is one) can do.   I will try to reach out to OBIHAI directly and see what they say.

Thanks again.

No need to wait until October.  I can tell you now that an OBi212 isn't going to do what you want.  It won't even do the 'hack' that azrobert postulated the OBi202 plus OBiLINE could do.

The basis of azrobert's suggestion is that the 202 supports barge-in from one phone port to the other.  The OBi212 has only one phone port.  (The second RJ11 in the photos is to plug in a POTS line, not a phone.)

[kayrjay]

As I feared.   Thanks, azrobert.

Dang, this is something I didn't know about when I went with a VOIP system.  Our new home (in CA) does not have any wiring for phones, so that's why I went with the 1062s (which are Wifi connected).   I naively thought multiple "extensions" could connect to the same call.   

Maybe someday some VOIP service provider will offer "shared line appearance" or general barging or whatever they want to call it.  Or, if this really becomes a priority, I'll have to consider a cloud-based PBX (but that seems expensive and complicated).  I don't even know if the 1062s can be used with a PBX ...

Oh gee ... technology!

[SteveInWA]

Maybe someday some VOIP service provider will offer "shared line appearance" or general barging or whatever they want to call it.  Or, if this really becomes a priority, I'll have to consider a cloud-based PBX (but that seems expensive and complicated).  I don't even know if the 1062s can be used with a PBX ...

Again, you are expecting IP phones to act like analog phones electrically connected together -- not gonna happen.

However, if you can move on from that expectation, you can set up multiple IP phones, and then simply do a warm transfer from one number to another, and then don't hang up.  The result is a conference call.

Yes, you can do this with cloud-based services, and no, they aren't that expensive, and yes, you can generally use an OBi 1000 series IP phone.

Why not investigate DialPad?  The company was started by the same people who created Grandcentral, the company that was eventually bought by Google and turned into Google Voice.  It has many of the same features, plus a mobile client.  They can directly provision OBi phones for your use with their service.

[drgeoff]

3 party calls can already be easily done with all OBi ATAs and OBi phones. No additional services or subscriptions are necessary.