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Loud buzz on OBi110 line PSTN

Started by Jon9999, July 20, 2013, 10:59:29 AM

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Jon9999

I get a very loud buzz whenever I connect through the OBi110 to the PSTN phone line.  I'm not talking about an interference hum -- this is a loud buzzing noise, not a background sound.  It's not a dial-tone-type buzz, but a continuous, loud raspberry sound.

If I try to make a call through the OBi by just dialing the number (with PSTN set as my primary service), as soon as the call tries to go through, I hear one ring (apparently generated by the OBi) and then the loud buzz starts.

If I just press # to bypass the OBi, the buzz starts immediately after I press #, instead of the dial tone.

I've tested the phone line by reconnecting the phone back to the telco jack directly, and there's nothing wrong there.  The patch cables are also fine.  I've also tried a full factory reset of the OBi110 without any difference.

My device is only two days old, and it was working yesterday.


ianobi

Seems like you have tried most of the usual checks. I would double check / change the cord from the Line Port to the Telco jack.

OBi devices are quite robust. However, quite a few problems have been reported with their power supplies. Loud buzzing that only appears on an analogue circuit may indicate a faulty power supply. Change with a compatible one if you can.

It could be that you are simply unlucky and your Line Port is faulty on your OBi device. If so, then put in a support ticket. Obihai have a good record of replacing defective devices.

Jon9999

> I would double check / change the cord from the Line Port to the Telco jack.

Double checked / changed.  No difference.

> Loud buzzing that only appears on an analogue circuit may indicate a faulty power supply. Change with a compatible one if you can.

Changed.  No difference.

> It could be that you are simply unlucky and your Line Port is faulty on your OBi device. If so, then put in a support ticket.

Put in.  Waiting.

Disappointing.

Thanks.



Jon9999

Spoke with OBi support. Unit apparently defective.

RMA'ed.

NewEgg is taking care of the exchange, after some prodding and invocation of the magic "supervisor" word.


Jon9999

Well, not quite...

I received a second, brand-new OBi110 from NewEgg to replace the one with the loud buzzing noise on the PSTN line.

It had the same problem, which started 5 or 10 minutes after I connected it, around the time that I received my first incoming PSTN call through the OBi. I hadn't made any configuration changes, other than activating it via OBiTalk.

Again, this isn't just a background hum. It's a very loud buzz, with no other sound (no dial tone, no voice), as soon as the call switches into the PSTN line.

OBi Support thought it might be "a coincidence" that I got two defective OBi110's in a row, but I'm skeptical. I'm thinking that something, somehow caused the OBi line port to fry itself when I connected it to my phone line. But I've never had any phone, fax machine, or computer modem get fried from the same phone line, so it really doesn't make any sense.

Does anyone have any ideas about this?

Thanks,
JON

Shale

Quote from: Jon9999 on July 23, 2013, 11:56:46 AM

Again, this isn't just a background hum. It's a very loud buzz, with no other sound (no dial tone, no voice), as soon as the call switches into the PSTN line.

OBi Support thought it might be "a coincidence" that I got two defective OBi110's in a row, but I'm skeptical. I'm thinking that something, somehow caused the OBi line port to fry itself when I connected it to my phone line. But I've never had any phone, fax machine, or computer modem get fried from the same phone line, so it really doesn't make any sense.

I agree that this is not just coincidence.

I would probe things with a voltmeter. See what kind of voltages you get from protective AC ground to the phone line wires. Normal would be about -50 DC volts on one phone wire and about zero on the other phone line. Check with AC also. It should be near zero on both wires if your meter is one of those which ignores DC when it is in the AC mode.

I would also check for voltage from AC protective ground to an independent ground such as a water faucet or other available ground. Use the AC mode on the meter for that.

It may be that the OBi110 was not fried, but some kind of ground fault was interfering. I have not figured out what that could be.

RFord

Try plugging the unit on a separate circuit in another room of your residence.  If you have another surge protector, I would try that unit as well.  Do a test with and without the "new" surge protector.

Better yet, could you take the unit to another location (one of your neighbors?) that have a PSTN line and test.  There might be a problem with either your PSTN Line or your electrical system as Shale suggested.

Jon9999

To Shale:

Probe with a voltmeter??? Really? I wouldn't know a voltmeter from an ice cream cone. And my A/C is nowhere near the phone system, so I know it's not coming from that.


To RFord:

I tried plugging it into another electric outlet on a different circuit, and it still buzzes. At this point, the unit seems fried so it will buzz no matter where I plug it in. I also tried plugging it into a different PSTN line -- same. I didn't have the phone connected through a surge protector, so I'll make sure to do that when #3 comes -- but I can't imagine that two power surges came through the phone line at the precise moment when I hooked up the OBi, given that I've never had any phone/fax/modem equipment damaged ever on the same line from a power surge.




I will try to protect

Shale

Quote from: Jon9999 on July 23, 2013, 02:05:08 PM
To Shale:

Probe with a voltmeter??? Really? I wouldn't know a voltmeter from an ice cream cone. And my A/C is nowhere near the phone system, so I know it's not coming from that.

Ask your friends, your children, or your parents. One will have a voltmeter. That person will know how to use it. After watching, and presuming you are not a dedicated technophobe, you too could buy and use a $10 or  $20 multimeter (voltmeter and ohmmeter combined). They are helpful with cars and more.

The phone system is plugged into the Line port of the OBi110. It may take more than 2 hands, but you can probe the two middle conductors of the cable that you unplugged from the OBi using a sewing needle as a small probe. One person can do that-- maybe your friend. The other person probes the protective ground on your outlet strip. Both of you can see the meter, which is sitting on something. The protective ground of an outlet is the roundish or D-shaped hole, rather than the flat holes.

Jon9999

Thanks, Shale, but nobody I know is going to be sticking sewing needles into electric outlets. I just don't run in that kind of crowd, I guess. I can hire an electrician, but it's just not worth it in the end.

Is there any type of plug-and-play device (not expensive) that I can use to test this out?

And what I really don't understand is that if there is indeed something wrong with my voltage or my ground or whatever, then how come I've never had any problem with any other phone or answering machine or fax machine or modem or TiVo that I've plugged into the very same phone line?

RFord

I know you are convinced that the unit is defective, but I would try one more test.  Do you have another power supply with the same specs as the OBi110 power supply?  Try using that and see if the buzzing sound goes away.  I find it hard to believe that you received two defective OBi110s.

BTW, when you say you test a different PSTN Line, are you talking about the same PSTN Line in your house, but at another location?

Jon9999

#11
To RFord: Too late, I've already shipped unit #2 back to New Egg for another replacement. I did try with another power supply, as recommended by Ian way above. Didn't make a difference. When I said I tested with another line, I did so in my apartment, both at the same jack (I have 2 lines) and at another jack. I don't have anywhere else to test it -- I'm the last landline holdout among my friends.

But I should make it clear that the buzzing sound isn't something that sounds like it would ever go away. It's **not** an interference sound. It's like a very loud electric razor, constant, and it starts the instant I connect to the LINE port (either by pressing #, by making a call that routes to li, or by answering an incoming PSTN call). The buzzing doesn't just obscure the conversation of the call, it seems to prevent the call going through entirely.

Also, let me clarify that I agree with you that it's hard to believe that I had two defective units. More likely, there's something about my phone line that caused the innards of both units to fry. That's why I was really hoping that someone might be able to figure this out, before unit #3 arrives tomorrow and it gets fried, too.

Is it possible that the line voltage or the ring voltage on my phone line is somehow abnormal, or that there's something else about my phone line that's causing this to happen?
I can't do the voltmeter test suggested above, but I did call Verizon and asked them to run a diagnostic. They said the line checked out fine -- but I don't quite understand how they can say the ring voltage is normal without actually testing while the phone is ringing, which they didn't do. I do live in an old building, so it's possible that there are some crossed wires somewhere along the line, but my phone service is just fine (no abnormal static or anything).

Here are details of how I hooked up the OBi110 (see diagram below).  I think this is all kosher, but perhaps I'm missing something that contributed to the trouble:

I have 2 POTS phone lines coming into my apartment on the same wire.  From the NID at the front door, the 2 pairs pass through a single cable in the walls into the interior media closet, where they terminate in a single RJ11 jack on a patch panel. Pre-OBi, that jack was patched via a patch cable into an 8-port common bus, which is in turn patched into the other individual RJ11 jacks that are connected through the walls to the various phone jacks throughout my house in a "star" manner. There are 5 or 6 active phones plugged in, most with dual-line (L1/L2) capability.

I installed the OBi110 in the phone closet, between the incoming RJ11 port and the bridge, along the wire for Line 1. I used a standard-issue modular 2-line splitter that splits the initial 2-line RJ11 into a Line 1 jack (R/G to R/G) and a Line 2 jack (Y/B to R/G). The splitter's Line 1 jack was connected to the OBi110's LINE port, and the OBi110's PHONE port was connected to the Line 1 jack of a second modular splitter, which was in turn plugged into the 8-port bridge to connect to all the other house jacks. The two Line 2 jacks on the splitters were patched directly together. As such, Line 1 was passing through the OBi while Line 2 bypassed the OBi.


                     _____                                             _____
                    | R |                                             | B |===TO LIVING RM JACK (L1)
TELCO/LINE 1 (R/G)---| J |           /--(R/G=L1)---[OBi]---\           |   |===TO BEDROOM JACK (L1/L2)
TELCO/LINE 2 (Y/B)---| 1 |==SPLITTER<                       >SPLITTER==| U |===TO KITCHEN JACK (L1/L2)
                    | 1 |           \                     /           |   |===TO OFFICE JACK (L1/L2)
                    ~~~~~            \--(R/G=L2)---------/            | S |===TO DINING RM JACK (L1)
                                                                      ~~~~~

<----NID-------->    <---------------MEDIA CLOSET--------------------------->  <---REST OF HOUSE---->



The only things new about this setup since the OBi arrived is the OBi and the two splitters. All the other wiring and the bus have been in place for years, and the wiring is sound and patched correctly. The splitters also check out okay, as do all the patch cables. I should also add that I've had plenty of phone equipment hooked up on this system over the years, including SIP/VoIP units, fax machines, old-fashioned phones, electric phones, modems, a TiVo, etc., without any other device ever getting its brains fried out before or even dying under mysterious circumstances. Line 2 works fine, bypassing the OBi. There is not and never has been any "leakage" between the Line 1 and Line 2 circuits.

The final clue here is that when I first hooked up the initial OBi several days ago, everything seemed to work fine for the first few hours. I was able to place and receive calls through the OBi on all services (SP1, SP2, LI [Telco Line 1), and OBiTalk), as well as directly through Telco Line 2 (non-OBi). The only thing I thought was odd was that when I placed PSTN calls on the OBi line by pressing # to direct connect, the first several DTMF tones sounded sort of overmodulated somehow every time, but by the final digit of each call, the tones sounded normal again. But several hours later, when I tried to make another PSTN call, the buzzing came on as soon as the PSTN line engaged. The second OBi also seemed to work, but it lasted only for 15 minutes, until I received an incoming PSTN call on Telco Line 1 (the line connected through the OBi) and picked up the receiver to hear only the loud buzzing.

Oh, and one more thing: To simplify everything, when I connected the 2nd OBi today, I didn't even hook it into the whole-house bus shown above. I connected everything to the left of the OBi in the diagram above, then connected a separate, dedicated phone to the PHONE port of the OBi. I did all my testing of the OBi with that dedicated phone (for the 15 minutes before it died). So I know that whatever killed the OBis came from the left side of the diagram, not the right.

I really do appreciate all the help here. I truly want to keep the OBi and for the new one coming tomorrow to outlast the first two by several years.

Thanks.
JON

SteveInWA

#12
Before you plug OBi #3 in to your home wiring and fry it too, I'd suggest testing it this way:  Go out to your Verizon NID, and unplug all jacks (or unscrew and remove all wires if it's not modular) leading into your house.  If you have a modular (RJ-11) NID, plug your analog telephone into the jack for L1, and verify it works.  Next, unplug the phone from the NID, and instead, plug it into the PHONE port on the OBi.  Now, plug a modular phone cord (preferably one with only 2-conductor RJ-11 jacks on it) into the NID and into the LINE port of your OBi, and see if you still get the loud buzz on the attached phone.  My bet is that you won't.  If you don't, then you might be inadvertently feeding your external (POTS) line 1 or 2 into into the line 1 wiring somewhere, and it's getting into the OBi on the PHONE side, thus frying the circuitry.  I know you said all your wiring and jacks are correct, but it is so easy to overlook one error like this.  For example, one of your many other phones may be incorrectly wired.  Or, one of your splitter jacks could be the wrong type.  Or, one of your analog phones on the L1 pair has a faulty AC power adapter on it, that is feeding AC noise into the phone lines, and the OBi happens to be sensitive to it.

If this isn't the issue (or, if by miracle, OBi #1 and #2 were both bad and #3 good, which I seriously doubt), then I'd concur with Shale that you need someone to test for AC (he meant Alternating Current, not Air Conditioning!) voltage leaking onto your phone lines.  A loud buzz is usually some form of AC.  POTS phone lines are -48 to -52 volts DC when on-hook (hung up), and around 100 volts AC when ringing.  You can actually see this on the OBi expert configuration page, but it wouldn't show you the fault you are experiencing, unless the magic smoke starts escaping from the OBi.  :o

Rick


Jon9999

Thanks again, gents.

I don't seem to be getting this one thing across well: The buzzing is not something that comes and goes. It just comes, and it stays. It's more of the sound of the post-fried state than the sound of temporary badness. So the part about "see if you still get the loud buzz on the attached phone" doesn't really make sense. No matter what, when I first plug the new OBi in -- anywhere -- I won't get the buzz. The buzz will start at some point when whatever happened happens again, and then it will be permanent. Not getting the buzz on jack X doesn't mean it won't happen eventually on jack X or on jack Y -- and once it happens, it's irreversible. With the two units so far, one took 12 hours to go bad on me and the other took 12 minutes. So how will I ever know that it's "safe" until it isn't? At some point (if not already), NewEgg is going to stop wanting to send me replacement OBis.

Sorry to keep pushing this point, but I think it's key.

Rick

Re-read what Steve said.  He's basically telling you that YOU are frying your OBi's and telling you how to properly test for that.   If you do what he says and leave it like that over night and the OBi doesn't fry you have your answer.

Shale

I suspect that his AC protective ground could be hot, although I don't know if that would account for the symptoms.

Jon9999

#17
Shale,

OK, I borrowed a voltmeter.  I'll try to test the phone line voltage as you and Steve described earlier.  So I should put one probe on the red wire of the wall jack and the other into the ground plug of a wall socket, right? And then do it again with the green wire and the ground plug? And then do both again while calling my number from another phone to make it ring?

Can you please tell me how to test the protective ground? (And just wondering... why would it matter about the ground?  The OBi's AC adapter is only 2-prong, so it doesn't even connect to ground, right?) Oh, and I'm using a surge protector that has a "Grounded" and "Protected" lights, and they're both normal. Does that answer the question about the ground being okay, or is it something else?

Thanks.

Jon9999

Quote from: SteveInWA on July 24, 2013, 12:23:34 AMyou might be inadvertently feeding your external (POTS) line 1 or 2 into into the line 1 wiring somewhere, and it's getting into the OBi on the PHONE side, thus frying the circuitry

Good thought, but I doubt it for a few reasons:

- With the 2nd OBi, I had connected the OBi PHONE jack only to an individual phone, not into the bus or into the house wiring, before it died. So nothing could have been getting back into the OBi PHONE jack from anywhere.

- I don't hear Line 2 when I use a Line 1 phone or vice versa, and when there's an incoming call on one of the lines, the other one doesn't ring. So I don't think there's any feed from one of the lines into the other.

- The PHONE side of the dead OBi units continued to work just fine. I could still make GV and SIP calls, with no buzzing. It was only the LINE side that was buzzing, so it seems that if there was some sort of damage, it was on the LINE side only.


I've received the new unit, but I'll hold off on hooking it up until I get a better handle on this. I'll try to do the volt testing that you and Shale suggested, but I'm a little leery of sticking things into electric sockets.

Shale

#19
Quote from: Jon9999 on July 24, 2013, 08:22:22 AM
Shale,

OK, I borrowed a voltmeter.  I'll try to test the phone line voltage as you described earlier.  So I should put one probe on the red wire of the wall jack and the other into the ground plug of a wall socket, right? And then do it again with the green wire and the ground plug? And then do both again while calling my number from another phone to make it ring?

Can you please tell me how to test the protective ground? (And just wondering... why would it matter about the ground?  The OBi's AC adapter is only 2-prong, so it doesn't even connect to ground, right?) Oh, and I'm using a surge protector that has a "Grounded" and "Protected" lights, and they're both normal. Does that answer the question about the ground being okay, or is it something else?

Thanks.
I must apologize. I was thinking that the OBi power adapter was 3-prong and the protective ground pin was connected to the chassis of the OBi. I was wrong-- it is a 2-prong plug on my OBi202. . Thus a problem with the protective ground would not have affected the OBi110-- presuming your AC adapter is a 2-pin 120 VAC (volts AC) power adapter also. Sorry I brought this up, but since you have the meter in hand, probing around won't hurt, and it might help. Since I don't have a specific theory now, I will ramble on a bit.

Let me say that it if the meter is in the AC volt setting with a high enough range, there is no place around your phones or computer that you can stick the probes that will damage the meter. With most digital meters, sticking the probes on a 120 vac voltage will not damage the meter, even if the range is much lower. The thing to be careful of is to not have the meter in the current (ma, A, or amps) mode or the resistance mode when probing voltage.

For your personal safety, hold the meter probes by the insulated handles. If you use sewing needles to probe the phone line, and you need to hold the metal part of the probes to a sewing needle, wear gloves. Thin cotton is fine. Rubber gloves are fine.

I suggest putting the meter into the 20 volt AC range and see what you get across a battery.  If the voltmeter rejects DC, you will probably get near zero in the AC (direct current) mode of the meter and about 9 or 1.5 volts on DC -- depending on the battery. My OBi power adapter shows 12.26 DC between the inner and outer conductors of the plug that plugs into the OBi.

Then, with the exceptions of the protective grounds, look for AC voltages where they should not be, such as the pins of the telephone wires. It is OK to measure voltages between the protective ground pin on an outlet (5 in picture) and the phone wires.

Here is a cable connector that might plug into your OBi110 in the Line position. In this image, pair 1, which the OBi110, is labeled as pins 2 and 3. The other pair, which I would have thought would be not connected internally to the OBi are pins 1 and 4. There may be some suspicion that  the OBi110 might connect to those pins internally. I don't know.

So anyway, probe around. Report what you find, and something anomalous may pop up.