Help with call forwarding to a fax machine

[dlsmith]

Quick description of my goal -- I have a land line connected to a fax machine and need to keep this number (business has used it for many many years), but I would like to start using an online fax service instead of the POTS and physical fax.

Google Voice doesn't have any fax features, but an online service I like called HelloFax has the features that I want (especially the ability to sign and edit incoming faxes). The service has worked very well during the trial period, but they don't offer number porting. I've tried a few other online fax services that do offer porting (like Ringcentral) but their features are not as good for my needs.

My thought is to port my land line number to GV (I've done it before with another number -- have to port to TMobile, then to GV), but GV can't accept the HelloFax as a forwarding number because there is no way to answer the verification call.

OK -- now to ObiTalk. I have an Obi110 that works great with GV as our home phone number. I read about the ability to set call forwarding on the Obi and figured out how to do that. To test it I sent faxes to my home GV number, which was forwarded to my HelloFax phone number but it would never go through. When I call the home number from a test phone it goes right to HelloFax (the call is answered and fax tones start).

The problem seems to be that within 2-3 seconds of HelloFax answering the call is dropped. It happens every time I tested it (if I call the Hellofax number directly it maintains the call and I hear fax tones as long as I stay on the call).

Do you think this is an issue with Google Voice? Is there anything I can adjust or tweak on the Obi110 to get it to maintain the call with the online fax #? Maybe it's a problem of VOIP to fax in general?

If this fails any ideas for inexpensive call forwarding? I tried another test where I forwarded GV to my cell, which then forwarded to HelloFax and that works, but  not consistently (maybe every third one goes through) so I'm thinking it's a GV problem. I could skip GV and port my landline number to a cell and forward that to HelloFax (but getting a cell line just for call forwarding isn't really cheaper than just keeping the ATT POTS line).

Last question would be how successful is receiving faxes with a fax attached to an obi110? Would I have the same problems if I ported my # to GV and answered those calls with a fax machine attached to an obi? (Also this doesn't get rid of the fax machine and the wasted paper and toner, etc).

Thanks in advance for any ideas!

--David

[jimates]

I think the problem is going to be google voice. I never had success with faxing or baud rate modem on google voice.

Not as cheap as free, but you could port your number to NetTalk and use that for your fax line. You can also connect it to the line port of the Obi110, disable inbound ringing to the phone port, and use it for alternate outbound calls and especially E911.

I have success with NetTalk after adjusting the baud rate.

[dlsmith]

I think the problem is going to be google voice. I never had success with faxing or baud rate modem on google voice.

Not as cheap as free, but you could port your number to NetTalk and use that for your fax line. You can also connect it to the line port of the Obi110, disable inbound ringing to the phone port, and use it for alternate outbound calls and especially E911.

I have success with NetTalk after adjusting the baud rate.

Thanks very much for the tips jlmates. It helps a lot to know that I need to leave GV out of the equation if I want to send/receive faxes (won't port my landline fax # to GV after all!)

Also thanks for the suggestion of NetTalk. I hadn't heard of their product before. Do you think this set-up would work?

Port my landline # to NetTalk > set NetTalk to forward all incoming calls to my online fax service's #? I might buy one at a big box store and try it out and return it if it doesn't work.

Also the idea of connecting to the Obi110 for outbound e911 would be a great bonus. Would that work like this:

router>NetTalk>LINE port of Obi110 (I have a phone already connected to the PHONE port)? If the NetTalk is set to unconditionally forward all calls would it still ring when I am receiving a fax? Can I turn off the ring or have a silent ring on just incoming LINE calls (so our handset doesn't ring for faxes but does ring when someone calls SP1 and 2)?

Lastly, that's a great bonus to have e911 through the NetTalk on the LINE port -- am I right that the Obi110 automatically shunts 911 calls out through the LINE port?

Thanks again -- I really appreciate the time and advice!

--David

One more question if I might! Out of curiosity is it possible to set a "silent ring" (where the handset is active if you pick up the call but doesn't make any ring sound)? My wife's GV is currently on SP2 and she likes to pick up the handset when she is home rather than her cell (GV goes to both). But she doesn't want the kids to pick it up if she isn't home and we've had problems where the kids didn't really distinguish the difference between "distinctive" ringtones between SP1 and SP2. Since her cell rings anyway she would always know that a call was incoming and could pick up the handset even if there was no ring on it.

[Rick]

I lowered my baud rate and turned off error correction and successfully fax in and out with GV and an HP 3330.

[dlsmith]

Thanks again for the various advice.

In case someone else is in a similar situation -- I bought a NetTalk device and tried it out with the Obi110 attached to the LINE port. Can call in and out just fine, but when I tested faxes sent to the NetTalk #>forwarded to my online fax number (set up via NetTalk's web dashboard) it wouldn't work. I can hear fax tones if I call so I know the number did get forwarded but the faxes failed every time. So much for the idea of porting my legacy fax# to NetTalk.

If I can find a cheaper service to port out my ATT landline I actually am going to keep the NetTalk device because it is a fairly inexpensive way to get e911 -- I bought it for $40 which includes 1 year of service (works out to about $3/month), then costs $30 per year after. With kids it is important to me to have 911 service in addition to our cell phones and both obi SPs were already assigned to GV #s so I couldn't go with CallCentric without getting another Obi.

Eventually HelloFax should be able to accommodate number porting, but for now my ATT landline with call forwarding and taxes and fees costs an annoying $25-30/month. I'm going to try a VOIP service like Line2 that has free call forwarding and number porting -- if faxes sent there are properly forwarded to HelloFax that would save money while I'm waiting ($10/month for Line2 plus the NetTalk cost for e911 at home).

[jimates]

Where did you get the Nettalk for $40?

I do recall one problem I had with the Nettalk and forwarding my google voice to it.

The Nettalk actually answers every call and then either forwards it or delivers it to the phone port. With google voice that meant all my forwarding phones range once then the Nettalk answered and continued to ring. And the call could not be answered on any of my other phones.

Perhaps the fact that Nettalk answers the call before forwarding has something to do with the failing fax.

[Stewart]

A problem with a silent ring is that ringing is needed to trigger the display of caller ID.  For the SPx Service you would like to be silent, try setting X_RingProfile to A and X_DefaultRing to 10.  This is a ring with 1/4 second on and 9 3/4 seconds off.  With luck, you'll still see caller ID, but the phone will make so little sound that the kids won't notice, or can be told to ignore it.  You can further tune the ring by editing Ring Profile A -> Ring Pattern 10 -> RingPattern.

To have incoming calls on the Line port not be processed by the OBi at all, set LINE Port -> InboundCallRoute to {}

For your fax dilemma, I have two suggestions.  The first is to give up on HelloFax -- you can easily port your number to Anveo, Callcentric, Vitelity or many others, and have reliable incoming fax service at lower cost.  There are many ways to sign a document on your own computer, ranging from free software such as IrfanView (simply paste your signature image into the fax image) to high-end packages such as Adobe Acrobat.  If you get lots of forms by fax to fill out and sign, the latter may be a worthwile investment, because it is pretty good at identifying the location of form fields -- you just click each box and type.

If you are really wedded to HelloFax, IMO you should spend $10 on an experiment.  Get a temporary local number (in your rate center) from a quality provider such as Anveo or Callcentric.  Forward it to your HelloFax number and test.  If it works reliably, you can be quite confident that when you port your landline, it will also work well.  If it doesn't perform to your expectations, you can at least evaluate their incoming fax function, to see whether you can live with that.

How have you been sending your test faxes?  I hope that you were using your fax machine and landline, connected directly, not through the OBi.  Otherwise, you may have been using a degraded source and were not doing a fair test.

[dlsmith]

Thanks again guys !

@jlmates -- I got the Nettalk at a local Frys electronics. They have it online too for $40 -- http://www.frys.com/product/6792695

@Stewart -- thanks for the ideas. Caller ID isn't that important -- my wife's cell will ring. She just likes to answer it on the home phone when she's there to save on minutes. I don't really understand the system for coding the ringtones, but I set Ring #10 to "60;(0+0)" and that makes no sound or lights on the handset but the call is still there if the handset is answered.

Also the reason I am so big on HelloFax is that it is perfect for my workflow -- I'm a physician and I get 8-10 faxes for refill requests that need to be quickly written on and signed. With HelloFax I get an email alert, click on the link and am taken right to the edit system (in a browser window) where I can add a quick text box and signature, hit send and be done. Whole thing takes less than a minute. I tried Ringcentral to compare and I'd need to individually download each file, edit it locally, then reupload to send. I'm on a Mac which does make some things more limited (Ringcetral has an edit and sign program but it's not Mac compatible for instance). If only HelloFax would get it together for number porting!

I've tested NetTalk and various other forwarding options by sending faxes from my landline fax, a friend's fax, and from various online fax services (like Ringcentral and FaxZero). Forwarding reliably works if I call forward to HelloFax from my ATT landline or from my cell phone. It also seems to work reliably when sent to Line2 and forwarded to HF (I need to test it a few more times in various ways to feel confident in it).

Anyway I know this has gotten off topic for Obi110 discussion, but I thought it would helpful if other folks have similar situations with faxing.

[pc44]

I, too, am tied to my landline for only one reason: faxing.

So I do relate to your desire for a better solution.  You could probably check with ATT to see if they would change your fax landline to a forward-only service at a reduced monthly rate.  Then have all calls forwarded to the HelloFax DID number.  But I don't think that's quite what you are wanting... it's just a thought.

Thanks for the heads up on Hello Fax... I was completely unfamiliar with it until you mentioned it. 

[Rick]

I'm curious - am I the only one that is successfully using GV to fax?  As I indicated, I slowed the baud rate and turned off error correction on my HP3330 and it works just fine to send and receive.  I have no need to receive the faxes on anything but paper, but I also have no reason to believe that if I setup a PC the same way it would also work fine with GV.  I guess my point is - are people that are assuming they can no longer fax when they switch to GV trying some of the documented solutions?

[jimates]

I'm curious - am I the only one that is successfully using GV to fax?  As I indicated, I slowed the baud rate and turned off error correction on my HP3330 and it works just fine to send and receive.  I have no need to receive the faxes on anything but paper, but I also have no reason to believe that if I setup a PC the same way it would also work fine with GV.  I guess my point is - are people that are assuming they can no longer fax when they switch to GV trying some of the documented solutions?

No, you are not the only one. Many have reported success faxing with GV. But hundreds times more have reported being unsuccessful.

And there is no guarantee that every baud rate modem is going to work the same. I have ReplayTV with modems that dial in for programming and I tried for days trying to get it to work.
I did get it to work with NetTalk but even then I had to find the right combination of baud rate and destination number. It won't connect to just every number in the list, I had to find the right one.

[dlsmith]

@pc44 -- that's a good suggestion. I'll find out from ATT if they offer a cheaper service with call forwarding only. I don't really need to fax out anymore since I'll receive faxes online and the few times I have a hardcopy form to fax I can just scan it then fax as an attachment with the online fax service. If not the trial of a Line2 account set to forward to HelloFax seems to be working consistently and that only costs $10/mo with free number porting. Doubt ATT will be cheaper than that.

@Rick -- I was using my fax with GV and it would work about 70% of the time. My fax was (still is at the moment) connected to the ATT landline with local service only. For long distance faxes I would call my GV number, press #2 and then dial the number I was faxing. Again did not always work. I never tested receiving faxes to GV then forwarded to the landline. When I tried faxing through GV with the fax connected to the obi110 it never worked. Also could not get it to work connected to the NetTalk duo not using GV, so it may be an issue with my ISP rather than the devices (since it was more successful with GV through the POTS line). I did try ECM off and lowest baud rate setting on the fax.

I guess the summary is that ditching a landline for online faxing requires some careful thought depending on your requirements and needs with faxing! I'll keep the NetTalk even though I'm basically using it just for e911 -- I can stick with one obi110 that way. If I went with Callcentric it's a little cheaper but I'd need a second obi and handset since I have two GV #s already assigned to the obi - the cost ends up being overall better in my situation with the NetTalk device. And it looks like Line@ for $10 month to port and CF my fax phone # to HelloFax is reasonable until I can port the number directly to HelloFax.

[Stewart]

My choices would be different.  Instead of Line2, I'd use Anveo for the fax forwarding. Assuming a Value DID and 200 min./mo. of forwarding, it's only $3 per month. IMO, quality is better (based on my trial of Line2 for voice -- I did not test fax).  Like Line2, you can receive faxes directly if needed.

Instead of NetTalk, I'd again choose Anveo.  If both GV numbers have high outbound usage (let's say >300 min./mo. for the less-used number), then IMO it's well worth it to buy a second OBi, so you could make or receive calls while the wife or kids are on the phone.  Having done that, you can configure SP2 for Anveo on both devices and have reliable 911 service for only $0.80/mo.  Or, use Callcentric instead ($1.50/mo for 911; they have provided reliable VoIP service for more than 10 years).

If one GV line is not heavily used, I'd put Anveo on SP2 and get a DID to which the second GV number can forward.  Outbound calls on SP2 would go via Anveo (but send the GV caller ID) and cost $0.01/min., though you would only have to use this path when the outbound caller ID was important.

By having a SIP provider on SP2, you gain the ability to have additional providers, e.g. for lower cost international calls, or to receive calls from other areas and countries via SIPBroker, iNum, Localphone and Rebtel gateways.

[dlsmith]

My choices would be different.  Instead of Line2, I'd use Anveo for the fax forwarding. Assuming a Value DID and 200 min./mo. of forwarding, it's only $3 per month. IMO, quality is better (based on my trial of Line2 for voice -- I did not test fax).  Like Line2, you can receive faxes directly if needed.

Instead of NetTalk, I'd again choose Anveo.  If both GV numbers have high outbound usage (let's say >300 min./mo. for the less-used number), then IMO it's well worth it to buy a second OBi, so you could make or receive calls while the wife or kids are on the phone.  Having done that, you can configure SP2 for Anveo on both devices and have reliable 911 service for only $0.80/mo.  Or, use Callcentric instead ($1.50/mo for 911; they have provided reliable VoIP service for more than 10 years).

If one GV line is not heavily used, I'd put Anveo on SP2 and get a DID to which the second GV number can forward.  Outbound calls on SP2 would go via Anveo (but send the GV caller ID) and cost $0.01/min., though you would only have to use this path when the outbound caller ID was important.

By having a SIP provider on SP2, you gain the ability to have additional providers, e.g. for lower cost international calls, or to receive calls from other areas and countries via SIPBroker, iNum, Localphone and Rebtel gateways.

Thanks for the advice Stewart. I did try Anveo -- $10 was worth a look. They sure have a lot of features although the website and dashboard are not the easiest to follow -- unfortunately fax forwarding was not successful, even when sent from a landline and forwarded through Anveo. For whatever reason Line2 has been consistently able to forward faxes so I'm going to port my number to them for now. I could see Anveo being a good and inexpensive service for e911, but the Value plan is limited to 40 minutes a day which is probably too low to use instead of GV. Two Obis would fix that problem, but then there's the expense of the 2nd Obi and I'd need to buy an additional handset.

Anyway thanks for all the tips from the community! Although I can't really cut the cost of faxing as low as I'd like, it's still 1/2 of what it is with ATT even with HelloFax+Line2 (and I don't have to keep buying paper and ink to feed the fax).

--David

[jimates]

Just for reference, you can plug a second Obi's phone port into the line port of a Obi110, and all configured services will ring the phones connect to the Obi110.

To place calls on the services on the second Obi you would press # on the phone and that would connect you to the dial tone on the second Obi. From there you would dial as normal.

[Stewart]

I did try Anveo ... unfortunately fax forwarding was not successful, even when sent from a landline and forwarded through Anveo.

This is very surprising to me.  Did you try forwarding on the Phone Numbers page (rather than using a Call Flow)?  I suspect that detection of fax tone may otherwise cause trouble.  What was the symptom?  Did it always fail or was it just unreliable?  Just guessing here, Line2 may be avoiding trouble, because they happen to use the same CLEC as HelloFax.  Please look up all three numbers at http://tnid.us/ and report what is shown for Current Telephone Company.  If you pass that info to Anveo's support, they may be able to give you a number with the "right" CLEC, or otherwise fix the problem.  (If not, they may be willing to give you a refund.)

...but the Value plan is limited to 40 minutes a day which is probably too low to use instead of GV. Two Obis would fix that problem, but then there's the expense of the 2nd Obi and I'd need to buy an additional handset.

If 40 min./day is insufficient for the lesser-used line, I would assume that you frequently have conflicts for use of the phone.  IMO, a good home system should be designed so that when one phone is in use, you can make or receive a call on any other (using the same or a different number).  Sure, that costs money, but the convenience is well worth it.  It may be possible to use some or all of your existing hardware -- what kinds of phones do you have now?

Also, I'm curious about your fax workflow.  If I had to do the same mundane task 2000 times per year, I'd find a way to automate it as much as possible (which may also get HelloFax out of the picture).  Given that there are hundreds of thousands of docs in the same boat, is there an app on the market that does this?  Or, it may not be difficult to use image or document processing software that has a scripting capability.  For example, on a routine refill approval, could the text box be pre-populated and a signature stamp pre-inserted, just waiting for you to click the OK button?

[dlsmith]

@Stewart -- thanks again for taking such a detailed look at my situation!

With Anveo I set up call forwarding from the phone number page (the Call Flow system was too intimidating). I sent 3 test faxes from my fax>ATT landline>Avneo>HelloFax. The fax would call out, I would hear the call connect with fax tones, but then I'd get an error message from the fax machine. "Fax failed" or something like that. Same test with Line2 instead of Anveo does work reliably.

I looked at the CLEC information on the website you suggested -- my HF and Anveo numbers actually use the same one (Pac-West telecomm Inc -- Syniverse), while Line2 uses a different one (Level 3 - Sybase 365).

As far as home set-up we don't really run into conflicts for use of the phone. There are so many ways to make calls (for instance with cell, with GV in Gmail, with VOiP apps like Groove iP). Before getting the Obi110 I used a decommissioned Android phone as a VOiP phone for the home GV number (with Groove iP). It just required a little too much maintenance because sometimes the app froze or the phone disconnected from the wifi and I was the only one paying attention to get it back online.

My goals were that we had reliable calling to and from our home number, that we had reliable 911 service, and that I can receive and send faxes. Secondary goals were that my wife can take GV calls through the home phone and that everything costs less than ATT if possible.

So using Obi110 with two GV #s (one home and one my wife's) and the NetTalk on LINE port I think is the most straightforward for my situation. It's more expensive for e911 than Anveo or Callcentric, but not a lot more and it allows us to keep one wireless phone system in the house rather than two handsets in the same location.

As far as faxing -- what it really comes down to is that it is an archaic technology and if only pharmacies and insurance companies would just use email it wouldn't be an issue. When it comes to medicine there are lots of inefficiencies and poor uses of technology, or proprietary uses of technology (hospital #1 has it's own electronic system that is different from that used by hospital #2 and #3 etc.). In my case I am in private practice and there are electronic record management services I've checked out. The problems are that ePrescribing is not universally used yet (not all pharmacies use it) and the programs aren't really a time saver compared to what I've gotten used to with HelloFax (still a lot of menus and clicking to get the refill done). Another problem for me is that although prescription refills are 80-90% of my faxes, I do get others like occasional forms from insurance. And faxes from pharmacies are not at all standardized -- some have checkboxes, some have numbers to circle, some are sent in landscape rather than portrait -- basically they each need an individual check on what needs to be done. What most doctors do is hire office staff to handle all this, but I have always preferred to be as efficient as I can and do these things myself (hiring and managing staff requires its own time and cost obviously). Thanks again for all the suggestions -- I've learned a lot just from this thread and I really appreciate it!

[Denis]

I work for Anveo. FAX is very sensitive to timing and each call forwarding adds an extra point of failure and makes faxing more difficult. Here is a path that each FAX will take if you forward from Anveo to HELLO FAX PSTN # .

Code Select Expand

SENDING FAX MACHINE ----> POTS ----> VOIP CARRIER ---> ANVEO ---> VOIP CARRIER---> [POTS may or may not happen depending of the carrier and the switch center] ---> VOIP  ---> HELLO FAX
If you receive FAX @ Anveo point than you will get a decent success rate. But the path to HELLO FAX is pretty much doubled.  I would try to avoid forwarding calls to Hello FAX PSTN number and instead I suggest you contact Hello Fax and ask them to give SIP Access for your account so you can forward calls from Anveo to their system using SIP. This way the extra path will be cut in more than in half because Anveo will send calls directly to their servers and you will still get a decent fax success rate.

[GWCS]

Has anyone considered buying a second Obi device and running a phone cord from the Obi phone port to a FAX-enabled modem on a computer that is physically nearby? A one-time investment of a dedicated Obi for faxing purposes whose SIP is GV and a basic fax modem might do the trick, no?

[Redwood]

And there is no guarantee that every baud rate modem is going to work the same. I have ReplayTV with modems that dial in for programming and I tried for days trying to get it to work.
I did get it to work with NetTalk but even then I had to find the right combination of baud rate and destination number. It won't connect to just every number in the list, I had to find the right one.

I have a Panasonic Showstopper (replay tv) just got the OBi100, and altho working fine for phones.. my Showstopper hasn't completed a guide download... very dissapointed so far... guess I will try different phone #'s?

any suggestion?  thanks